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June 17th, 2010
11:25 AM ET
Backlash over Angelina Jolie as CleopatraThe author of the biography “Cleopatra: A Life” may be hailing Angelina Jolie as the perfect choice to play the queen, but some folks aren’t so sure. On African American blogs and message boards, people are speaking out against the casting of Jolie in a role they believe should go to an actress of color. Essence.com recently featured a commentary titled, “Another White Actress to Play Cleopatra?” where the writer opined, “Honestly, I don't care how full Angelina Jolie's lips are, how many African children she adopts, or how bronzed her skin will become for the film, I firmly believe this role should have gone to a Black woman.”
Clutchmagonline.com points out that the Egyptian royal has already been portrayed by three actresses who were not of color: actress Claudette Colbert in 1934, actress Vivien Leigh in 1945 and the most famous Cleopatra to date, Elizabeth Taylor in 1963. Stacy Schiff, author of the forthcoming “Cleopatra: A Life,” reportedly endorsed Jolie to play the role according to USA Today. “I think [Jolie] be perfect for it and I can see a possible Oscar in her future,” the writer said. “Physically, she’s got the perfect look.” Talk is swirling that Jolie’s real life love, Brad Pitt, could play Mark Anthony a la legendary lovers Liz Taylor and Richard Burton in the 1963 version of the film. Do you think Jolie is the ideal Queen of the Nile?
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The Ptolemaic dynasty were of Macedonian Greek descent meaning light skinned and quite often blond. Ptolemaic Egypt had a rather strict color bar too – a visibly mixed blood princess would not have been an acceptable heir. Cleopatra's maternal ancestry is unknown but it is most UNLIKELY to have been either native Egyptian or Sub-Saharan African given the racial ideas of her culture.
Another white woman portraying ancient peoples. Angelina does not even look Greek. Moreover, many scholars attest that Cleopatra was short, a little stocky, and not real pretty, at least not the way we saw Elizabeth Taylor play her. I would have liked to see a woman of color play this role, especially a woman who looks average and has dark skin. It just would be more historically correct.
I agree withLeila..another white womanportraying a women of color! It's so stupid to just make up history! Hollywood has made all of the Epic movies with Jews or white folks! If they would put anybody in ofcoor the it would be Halle Berry, and shecan't even act! The highest quality actresses of color are not utilized well for their extroidinary talents. So tiring watching another white anybody playing colored people. Move into the 21st century please!!!
I would love to see Beyoncé Knowles play the part of Queen Cleopatra the 7th, we have had lots of white Cleopatra's, how about giving it to a coloured woman for a change, besides we can guess all we want as to what colour Cleopatra actually was, but at the end off the day no one knows for sure, and does it really matter what colour she ( Cleopatra ) was, and just for the record I am a white male.
If You Were Educated Leila, You Would Know That Cleopatra Wasn't Even Black, African Or Even Egyptian. Her Lineage Went Back To Ancient Greece.
Cleopatra wasn't an Egyptian by blood. She was a descended from the military/ruling class from Europe. Alexandria developed its own culture influenced by aspects of native Egyptian culture, and I believe Cleopatra had a child with a native Egyptian, but she was not "black" by any modern interpretation.
and interpretation is all "race" is.
Her mother was never mentioned because she died when she was very young, and she was born out of wedlock to one of the servants of Ptolemy's household. Her mother was the Head servant to the house and it is said that Ptolemy loved Cleopatra's mom thus Cleopatra became daddy's favorite little girl who then became Queen.
FACT: THE MOVIE WORLD HAS DONE LOTS OF DAMAGE TO PEOPLE OF COLOR...
THE AMERICAN INDIAN THEY USED WHITE ACTORS INSTEAD OF NATIVE INDIAN – PAUSE
EVEN SANTA THEY MADE WHITE...EVEN JESUS CHRIST AND MOSES THEY
MADE WHITE IN THEIR MOVIES- ALL MEN OF COLOR – PAUSE
CLEOPATRA WAS A WOMEN OF COLOR AND THEY USED WHITE ACTRESSES TO
PORTRAY THIS WOMEN...
ALL SUPER HERO, AND
MOVIES ABOUT SMART KIDS OR MEN WITH
SPECIAL POWERS OF WISDOM, THEY USED WHITE PERSONS – PAUSE
WHAT MESSAGE IS THIS IMPLANTING IN THE MINDS OF PEOPLE – PAUSE
PEOPLE TODAY ARE STANDING UP FOR WHAT IS RIGHT – PAUSE
LOOK AT THE GOVERNMENTS AROUND THE WORLD, PEOPLE ARE STANDING UP
FOR FAIRNESS AND TRUTH..
MOSES MARRIED A WOMEN OF COLOR (IN THE MOVIES WIFE HIS WIFE WAS WHITE)
AND KING SOLOMON WAS IN LOVE WITH A WOMEN OF COLOR.
It was recently discovered that Cleopartra's sister was half African. Therefore, Cleopatra may have been African as wll as Greek. Therefore, It their is going to be a Biographgy of Cleoparta or movie. The Actress should atleast resemble what Cleopartra and her family were in real life. Meditteranean and African.
Forget the white vs black issue for a second we still have other problems with Angelina playing Cleopatra. If Cleopatra was really Greek, why is Angelina a French/British/Native American woman playing her? It doesn't make sense especially because Angelina doesn't look Greek or Meditteranean from any angle. Also Cleopatra in real life was ugly,let's face it, maybe she was attractive by the standards back then but by today's standards she would be considered ugly. She had a hooked nose that I know for sure. Neither Elizabeth Taylor nor Angelina have a hooked nose. Why make an actress play someone who they don't resemble even a little bit especially when you have so many other faces in the world who look like Cleopatra. People are acting as if all women in the world died and Angelina is the only woman left or something. Plus people are tired of Angelina she is overrated,over exposed and just plain annoying.People are tired of constantly hearing about her. She is better in action movies and should stick to what she's good at instead of playing roles that don't suit her she knows damn well she doesn't deserve this role nor will she do justice to this role.
Angie will be fine for this movie. She should stay on the film for one I will see the movie. For I love movies about the Roman Empire. Because of mixed Roman hertiage. She should of had more children than adopting though. Also adopting American children who have no families. I wish she would support her own nation first. Angie you're cute is all.
Maybe they should just get rid of every other actress out there, and just her her for every movie being made from now on.
Personally, I am pulling for MIllia J. for the part because of her intense eyes.
If people want to tell a their story with all the characters they want they must, "must" produced their own stories. No one will do it for you the way you want. You "must" do it yourself. Now let's keep it moving and get to writing your script. Don't be reactive be proactive!
If there is any truth to the claims that Cleopatra was both Greek and Egyptian then perhaps it would be best to have Halle Berry play the role as it truly should not be played by a white actress.
Cleopatra was from the Ptolemaic dynasty, which was Greek and installed by Alexander the Great.
how did essence get its information on cleopatra being black? looks like any stupid person can work there.
The main lesson here seems to be our education system is a piece of crap. If you're going to spout off about ancient Egypt go to a museum or read a history book first. Cleo was of Greek ancestry and the Egyptians of her day were not dark skinned if their numerous self-depictions are anything to go by. Stop applying modern sentiments to ancient history.
Cleo was of Greek ancestry.
Bottom line-nobody really knows what color Cleopatra was, but the real reason that black folks tend to be up in arms about casting choices like this is because Hollywood always has to whitewash everything-that is, white people throughout Hollywood history have always been casting in the leading roles whether the person they were playing was actually white or not. As a poster said in an earlier post, why is everyone who posted here gotten so upset at the thought that Cleopatra could have been black-the reality is is that the modern racial catagories we're boxed ourselves into over the last 400 hundred years today didn't even exist in Cleopatra's time-so yeah she may have been considered black back then, but not by today's racial standards. BTW, I saw a pictures at an Egyptian museum showing the daily lives of some Egyptians, and they were depicted as BROWN-SKINNED people, straight-up. And, FYI, there ARE mixed black people who look just as white as any white person around–who's to say Cleopatra wasn't? And why the hell is it so difficult for white people to believe that people in ancient Egyptian civilizations probably didn't look like them-why do you always have to literally "whitewash" history, as if nobody BUT white people could have made history in the first place? What proof do you have that they weren't? I mean,damn, there are people to this day who have a hard time admitting that Obama is black, as if his having a white mother somehow cancels out his blackness, which is some stupid BS. As far as I'm concerned, white folks have erased so much of black folks' hostory in this country until it isn't funny. Look at the AIRBENDER movie, which, even though it's set in a world of Asian people, STILL gets cast with only white folks in the lead. Look at the gambling film 21, which was actually supposed to be about the 3 young Asian-American college students and a white students who learned how to beat the casino system, but they threw a white guy in the lead, therefore "whitewashing" his story and altering it. After uncovering so much black history that wasn't taught to me in school over the years, I'm pretty skeptical of white folks claiming, "SO-and-so wasn't really black, they were really this-and-that"-get the hell off that–Cleopatra IS black–y'all just don't want to admit it! And hell,yeah, Thandie Newton should be playing, not Jolie-she gets enough damn roles as it is!
Bottom line-nobody really knows what color Cleopatra was, but the real reason that black folks tend to be up in arms about casting choices like this is because Hollywood always has to whitewash everything-that is, white people throughout Hollywood history have always been casting in the leading roles whether the person they were playing was actually white or not. As a poster said in an earlier post, why is everyone who posted here gotten so upset at the thought that Cleopatra could have been black-the reality is is that the modern racial catagories we're boxed ourselves into over the last 400 hundred years today didn't even exist in Cleopatra's time-so yeah she may have been considered black back then, but not by today's racial standards. BTW, I saw a pictures at an Egyptian museum showing the daily lives of some Egyptians, and they were depicted as BROWN-SKINNED people, straight-up. And, FYI, there ARE mixed black people who look just as white as any white person around–who's to say Cleopatra wasn't? And why the hell is it so difficult for white people to believe that people in ancient Egyptian civilizations probably didn't look like them-why do you always have to literally "whitewash" history, as if nobldy BUT
Bottom line-nobody really knows what color Cleopatra was, but the real reason that black folks tend to be up in arms about casting choices like this is because Hollywood always has to whitewash everything-that is, white people throughout Hoyywood history have
What's really curious is why some are up-in-arms about the possibility that Cleopatra was mixed-race, that is she MAY have had sub-saharan or black AND Greek ancestry. It is very possible. Why not mix it up and let not only white, but mixed, black, mediterranean, hispanc, Indian women have a go at the role. All likelyhoods of appearances. I saw once on Xena or some TV show Cleopatra was played by a black actress. And many very dark skinned blacks have features like those some point to in ancient pictures skinny nose and lips ,( like Iman). And Eypt was invaded from the Middle East in ancient times so there'd be an admixture. I have a friend from Northern Africa and fortunately her/their concept of "race" is not as screwed up as ours! Why are some so fearful and anxious that Cleopatra may have been "mixed" by Western definition!
I couldn't agree more – why not mix it up and give other women from other backgrounds the opportunity to play a strong woman.
It's entirely likely that Cleopatra was not dark skinned. As she was part of the Ptolemy Dynasty she was most likely of Macedonian descent. Looking at the family tree leads one to believe that, seeing as how it's mostly made up of cousins and siblings marrying, she'd have been nearly pure blooded Macedonian (with some, probably significant, congenital birth defects).
do you want to know the noise of the of Sphinx is cut off……lol here is why
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2r5p8yoe_sk&feature=related
Cleopatra was Greek. A descendant of Ptolemy, a general of Alexander the Great. I think it's really sad for people to make ignorant remarks to the contrary. Please or do some research at the library or on the internet before you blog about something you obviously know nothing about. You just ultimately look foolish. History can not be changed. And I think Angelina Jolie is an excellent choice for the role. Perhaps Charlize Theron should play Cleopatra? She is African.
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Angelina Jolie is a much more REALISTIC choice than a black woman. I wish people would read their history books. Cleopatra was Greek. She came from the Ptolemy dynasty. This woman was about as Angelina Jolie. I'm usually the first one to raise my hand when Hollywood makes a mistake (for example having Angelina Jolie play the Afro-Cuban/Dutch Marianne Pearl) but in this context, they are not incorrect!
Most have pointed out that Cleopatra was from Greece so that means that she was no doubt white and points out that Egypt is apart of African but that doesnt mean that she was black or "colored" b/c there are white ppl in Africa. So were there never any brown/black ppl in Greece ever?
My point no one will ever really know what she really looked like unless they time traveled and does not forget to bring their iphone to take a picture of her to end this debate. 100s of years ago America was highy populated with brown ppl now its mainly white ppl so 2000 years ago who really knows what ALL Greeks looked like. 1000s of years from now ppl might all be "brown"! The world keeps on changing
Ok, if color is no factor in playing a role. So, let A.Jolie play Cleopatra and the Danzel Washington play Mark Anthony
Well in all actuality though she was the ruler of Egypt Cleopatra wasn’t Egyptian. She was a descendant of the Macedonian Greek general Ptolemy. If you actually look at the history Ptolemy went to Egypt and set up a dynasty there and that’s probably how she later came into power. She wasn’t African American at all and that’s probably why they didn’t give the role to an African American actress. I think Angelina Jolie will do fine as Cleopatra seeing as she is an amazing actress.
Just read a posting that made me laugh... Mike named characters who are "historically" white. They are comic book characters... there is a difference.
After reading some of the comments. I must admit I was re-educated on some things. Most would assume because Cleopatra was Queen of Eqypt she would have been African (in particular African in skim tone). But as we all know, Africans come in all shades of color; from dark to brown to yellow or carmel skin. As most of us also know most of the modern day people who reside in Egypt are mostly Muslim and have the same features of people with Middle Eastern descent; who also come in many shades of colors. So what does all this mean, who the hell knows what Cleopatra skin color was. If she was Greek then she would more than likely have had skin color similar to your modern Middle eastern person or lighter in skin color. If she was Greek and African, still the same thing goes her color could have been the exact same as a Greek or real light skinned African. Kids with mixed races come out all kinds of ways.
The question posed was should Angelina play the role of Cleopatra? My response is why not? Angelina has dark features other than her green eyes and could very easily pass as someone with Greek features. She is a very good actress (and those who claim she isnt must not realize how many academy awards she has won and been nominated for. I guess the Academy and the world has it wrong); she is very beautiful and could have a huge following which would also make the movie successful.
If we're talking about the same Cleopatra who descends from the line of those Hellenic (or hellish, depending on one's level of admiration for such a barbaric legacy) Greeks that decided to eke out some meager existence @that end of the known universe following the disintegration of Alexander's acquisitive empire... then she is white and not black.
If we're talking about the same Cleopatra who murdered her sister & eventually her brother for the throne... then she is, for all intents and purposes, white and not black
If we're talking about the same Cleopatra who was actually suppose to MARRY her little brother in the tradition of maintaining the integrity of the Ptolemaic bloodline (not to mention all the congenital birth defects that inevitably result given the generations of interbreeding)...then she is again, white.
If we are talking about the same Cleopatra who decided to OFF herself after having been defeated by Octavian's legionnaires like the coward she was along with her beloved Marc Anthony...she was white; the list goes on.
I think (and I'm addressing my fellow brothas & sistahs chiefly) that whites generally regard themselves as innately far more superior than all other ethnic groups, especially the black man. For me (YES, I AM BLACK) it is sometimes comical but mostly trying when considering how we (black folk) so passionately hold onto the myths of a number of these supposedly black mythic figures of old with a feral aggression. Many of these cats were indeed salacious, backstabbing, acquisitive individuals, who were ultimately proven to be nothing more than suicidal cowards and demagogues. Cleopatra doesn't deserve to be black or lauded by blacks in any respect.
Google people of Egypt. I did, and saw a crowd in a street market, and though I wouldnt say they looked white, they looked just as not black. If I had to pick a country to say who they did looked like I would guess Jordan or , Lebanon. I studied about Cleopatra in school, and we were told she was descented from Greece. I know that Blacks feel they are being robbed because Angelina is playing her, I think the ones complaining should check their facts first. I understand she was the ruler of Egypt which is located in Africa, but just because you live or are from Africa doesnt mean you are black. Last I looked Charlize Theron is pretty white looking. I really understand that everyone wants to be represented correctly, and I believe in this case they are correct in getting Angelina. Though with all the inbreeding that went on, I would have a hard time believing she was really beautiful, at least the way we see beauty today. I think she was probably way ahead of her time, and was just a great biz woman. And for the record, I am black.
It even goes beyond Cleopatra not being 'black.' What we call black or african american is mostly from sub saharan africa. Africa north of the sahara was part of mediterranean culture and ethnicity and basically still is. Not only was Cleopatra not 'black', but neither were the people she was ruling. Oh sorry shouldn't let facts get in the way of the PC police.
Earth to blacks: Cleopatra was GREEK,NOT(I repeat) NOT black. Get a brain morans!
By the logic expressed in previous posts here, F. W. de Klerk and John "white Zulu chief" Dunn must be played by BLACK actors in future screen plays as they were both native Africans!!!
egyptians are not "black" ...these idiots should stick to hearing insults in greeting cards.
Cleopatra is dead.
She has nooblets posting her bloodline on a blog trying to say that her family lived someplace 300 years, i guess she didnt even breathe while she was there either, how many kids can a brother and sister make? She didnt keep her bloodline pure, she sure nailed those romans, had em whipped too and as far as I know she didnt get any kids out of her brother.
That chick prolly laid the pool boy for breakfast and the doughboy for lunch she was Queen and she did do a lot of hanging out with the locals, thats how she got out of dodge when it got hot. If the people didnt like her or felt totally annoyed by her then they would have turned her over to Octavian alive so he could disgrace her but they didnt.
If she was alive now she would rick roll all of you, bust out a golden barge tell obama our current african leader to get out of the white house and "respect her authoratah!" if he protests all she has to say is "guess what, you look out your window staring at an erect obelisk, lined up with a juicy oval office, this joint is mine behbeh, go back to chicago and take that knuckle cracking assassin with you"
Black people in black mags like to talk about this stuff but in all reality angelina is seen as an annoyance with her brother kissing self, if they had picked Julianna Margulies or possibly that girl from big fat greek wedding it would have been really cool and interesting just for the heck of it, Im black i know cleo was greek and i know she watched people die from poisons as afterdinner entertainment i dont think i would want to play that rotten woman who stole two women's husbands and was an all around psychopath troll. she wore braided hair wigs just like judges in austrailia wear wigs so she would look more like the people she is just like the politicians we have today she spends up the people's money on pearls she drops in wine, gets them in stupid wars and judging by the way she died which was a regular GREEK TRAGEDY its pretty easy to figure out, but in all honesty inner city schools arent famous for teaching the classics,
if this was an issue it would have been in a mag other than essence, there was upset when they got a chinese actress to play the lead in memoirs of a geisha a movie which was just wrong wrong wrong especially since that cad dragged geisha through the mud since he is such a sick ...... anyway, Cleo was a greek, black folks dont believe it because we dont believe anything yall say just for the lulz, it annoys liberals who have occupied our neighborhoods from the 60's please help us they wont leave lol, if jole wears traditional sheer clothes in the movie nobody will care, essence is beauty shop talk people know where Ptolemy came from, everybody knows they weren't egyptian, thats why they conquered Egypt but never possessed it, if they want to pick somebody why dont they get pamela anderson, then at least she can finally be given a role that is WORTHY OF HER MYRIAD OF TALENTS! who cares! now everybody watch cleopatra jones this is the most traffic this site has seen lol
its a celebration
enjoy yourself
As many many posters above have pointed out, Cleopatra VII was of Northern Greek stock, not Egyptian, but native Egyptians weren't black, either - the closest modern descendants of the ancient Egyptians are modern Egyptian Copts, like Boutros Boutros-Ghali.
@astra: "when you say Greek-Macedonian you mean from the greek region of macedonia not FYROM right?"
No; we're talking about roughly two thousand years before either modern Greece or the Republic of Macedonia existed. The ancient Greek Macedonia was just a small part of the modern Greek Macedonia, but in Cleopatra's time Macedonia consisted of the northern part of modern Greek Macedonia, most or all of the modern Republic of Macedonia, a big chunk of modern Bulgaria, and some of modern Albania.
I guess nobody has anything better to do in this country than try to point out "racism" everywhere they look. NFL head coaches, college football coaches, Hollywood, players in MLB. Shut up and get a freaking life! The producers of this Cleopatra movie aren't stupid, they know Jolie is a box office draw. REGARDLESS of the true ethnicity of Cleopatra, nobody would go see that movie if it starred an unknown actress. That is what being an A-list celebrity means. How did this even become newsworthy? People are boycotting movies that don't star "minorities" now?
Why do I keep seeing people making comments about the Egyptians are White as if the Egyptians of today were the Egyptians of Cleopatra's time?
Were the Americans of today, excluding the so-called NATIVE AMERICANS, the people who inhabited America 600 years ago?
Egyptian royalty were of greek (i.e., caucasian descent). The sub-saharan dark-skinned egyptians were the manual laborers and slaves. Get a grip. To the extent the Egyptians accomplished anything, it was because they were lead by Greeks. If you want black actors to play something, let them play the burglars in the home-alarm company commercials.
OK, Cleopatra was Greek. However, it's really silly to assume that the people you see in Egypt now–especially any "white skinned" Egyptians posting here or made mention of, are the same Egyptians from the time of the Pharos and before. Clearly the Egyptians who built the pyramids and gave the world the legacy that still lives on today and cannot even be duplicated were black people–people of color–non-white or Arb. For the life of me I cannot understand why other non black people are threatened by this obvious knowledge. All it takes is two eye balls to see the dark skiinned men and women–women with braided hair (white people, Arabs, Asians don't braid their hair). It's the kinks that lend themselves to this style. And yes, they wore wigs–braided wigs. Further, saying Egyptians were not black, when they left images of themselves that clearly depict them as black–because the people who live their now don't look like the black people you are familiar with today is also ignorant because the people who lived in America 500 years ago didn't look like the people who live here now. Here's the bottom line, black people couldn't really care less about Angelina Jolie. What black people care about is the fact that no matter what we do as a people–art, science, religion, math, literature, language, music, it is always taken over by non-black people (Rap/Hip-Hop is the most modern example) and then white people are given credit for it and then black people are told, it's doesn't matter. How would you feel as an individual if it happened to you? I'm sure you wouldn't like it. So whether you agree with how a lot of black people feel or not, maybe you can at least understand what some of us believe to be a true and why we are unhappy about certain things.At the end of the day, we all kinda laugh at you all for wanting to be like us so much that you lie and cheat and steel to do it. It's sad, but that's just the way it is. We'll just keep coming up with new ideas and moving the world forward...it's our gift and you SHOULD be grateful!!!
Cleopatra was of greek descent and had a hooked nose. They should have picked a beautiful woman with a hooked nose.
I think Halle Barry should play Cleopatra. She's much more like Cleopatra than Angelina. She pushed her way into that movie about the reporter that was killed in the mid east, and that movie was a flop. I can't even remember the name of it. She totally flopped that movie. She's only good in those strike a pose type movies like lara croft. Not real acting movies.
CLEOPATRA WAS GREEK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LEARN HISTORY – END OF ARGUMENT.
I am a Classics student, so suffice to say I know a little bit about Ancient Egypt. I'm no expert in Egyptian history/culture, since I primarily study Rome and Greece. However, that is enough to know that Cleopatra (she was Cleopatra VII, by the way) was not of African descent. Just because someone lives in Africa, it does not mean that he/she is African. She was of the Ptolemaic line of pharoahs, descended from the Greek general Ptolemy. When Alexander the Great died, the territory he conquered (Egypt included) was divided among his three top generals, Ptolemy being one of the three. Since the Ancient Greeks were xenophobic, they did not want to mix with the native Africans; they inbred. Cleopatra's husbands/co-rulers, first Ptolemy XIII and then Ptolemy XIV, were both her brothers. That was the tradition. Of course, she probably had some genetic malformations as a result, but such is life. Having a black woman play the part would be historically incorrect. Cleo was as white as they came, so Angelina is a fine match.
Also, but perhaps less relevant, she was not by current standards physically beautiful. From her image on coins of the time, historians have a good idea of what she looked like: big nosed. It was her charisma, power, and intelligence that attracted both Caesar and Marc Antony. But, this is Hollywood and if an unattractive actress had the lead role, no one would want to see it 😛
Cleopatra was a descendant of the Ptolemys. In other words, that was GREEK blood running through her veins. She was not black.
Like many have already said Cleopatra was of Greek-Macedonian origins..I remember my history professor at Penn State who was black on the first day of my African history class stating that Cleopatra was white and that this afro centric view that she was black was BS. At the PSU main campus there was a hallway in one of the buildings with plaques listing great black people of history and they listed Cleopatra. My black professor said ignore the Cleopatra plaque as it was nothing but silly nonsense. As a historian myself, I was glad to see large number of people posting the truth on this site. I know when i taught at high school level and even at the college level there was a large portion of Afro centric teaching pushing this agenda.
Come on CNN, don't let us down... provide useful commentary. Set the record straight. Dismiss the controversy. State the facts, the consensus of historians.
It is SAD that the comments section to this article provide a more intelligent discussion on the topic than the actual 'article'!
You people are such excuses – yes, you BLACK BLOGGERS. If you want a Black Cleopatra, then make a movie with a black cleopatra. You know what that takes? It takes desire and it takes money. So pony up and provide both! But if someone ELSE puts up the money and has the ambition to do this, WHY IN HELL DO YOU THINK YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO DICTATE WHO THEY SHOULD CAST? It's not your movie, it's not your call, and it's not your choice. Frankly, if you're not contributing one red cent to this picture, no one cares what you think? So go ahead and phone Spike Lee... tell him you have an idea for a script.
Tonie, since you are interested in facts, let me explain to you some facts. It is true that this particular Cleopatra was part of the Ptolemaic dynasties, an alien dynasty to Egypt in every respect, including in its whiteness. Ancient Egypt extended to Ethiopia, not its current modern borders, and was African in every respect. Most significant accomplishments had been achieved by the time the Ptolemies took the reins and these dynasties were a period, generally agreed, of Egypt's decline. In fact, Egypt is derived from a Greek name and the true name of the country was Kemet. The larger issue is why Hollywood avoids portraying ancient "Egyptian" civilization during its periods of highest achievement? Queens Tiye, Hatshetpsut, Nefertari, and many others were all Black (it has been established that not just Nubian civilization that was black). The first significant non-Black invaders were the Hyksos, which started the period of integration there. Sometime following this in the 18th dynasty, native Egyptians, by definition, blacks, were able to seize control again despite the now laughable Euro-esque portrayal of Rameses II (19th) by Yul Brenner we all grew up seeing around Easter. I believe the main issue of many writers here who are expressing their disdain is not so much Cleopatra. Rather, that it is time for the silver screen to portray the "real" ancient Egypt (Kemet) during its time of highest productivity, which lasted millennia, not a period of Egyptian history on the tail end after the country was conquered by alien invaders who were more Hellenistic and Greek than Egyptian and African.
Some people here obviously don't know their geography or history, and yet they still spew out their uneducated knowledge.
Fact 1: Cleopatra was Greek and if you don't believe that well then get out your encyclopedia or get on to Google and search it up yourself. He father was a Greek general and her mother was from pontus (another Greek state).
Most people who don't belive that fact are so turned upside down by their political or personal agenda that they are willing to believe in fairytales.
Fact 2: Most Egyptians arn't black, but a minority are. Historians from the ancient period have spoken time and time again that the Egyptians were very much in 'Semetic ' apearance(like Arabs, Jews, Babylonians, etc). The 'Black' Egyptians that were written about in history were called 'Nubians' and they were a minority in Egypt and were a rival power that neighboured Egypt. Early egyptian rulers were thought to be Black but that was a time in early Egyptian periods.
Egypt still is and has for most of its past been most of its past inhabited by the 'Semetic' majority.
Fact 3: Most of northern Africa is populated by either Arabs, Berbers, decendants of Greeks and Spaniards and also 'Black's.
Please some of you, get your facts right before you start saying crap like 'Africa is only or mostly black' because it isn't! It is a multi ethnic continent just like every other continent in the world!
1st – Egyptians are not Black. If you visit Egypt, you would see that. The closer you get to the southern border next to Sudan, Egyptians are darker, due to mating with the Sudanese.
2nd – Cleopatra was Greek!
SHE WILL BE " PERFECT " FOR CLEO ! JOLIE IS A VERY, VERY , VERY BEAUTIFUL WOMAN !
Cleopatra was black, but no one wants too see that, the majority of people would rather see angelina. stop hating
Tonie234 – when you first spoke I did find some merit in what you were saying. But now you are saying some deragtory comments that are very racist. You have mixed some legit facts/opinions with some racists comments, and SURPRISE! – you want black people to listen and understand you. Obviously you don't like black people or yourself for that matter.
I remember the English actor Jonathan Pryce who was selected to play a Eurasian pimp in the Broadway production of Miss Saigon. At that time, members of the Asian-American artistic community cried foul. I see no racism here. To me this is not even an ethical issue. This is purely an economic decision. The bottom line here matters.
personally, i don't care what color the actress is that plays cleo. my only thought when i read jolie was being cast for the part was it must be a 'b' movie. acting isn't exactly jolie's forte. pitt, as antony, would bring some credibility to the movie. if i were guessing, i'd say jolie has been offered the part to attract pitt.
Cleopatra was Greek; her fathe4r was Ptolemy and her mother was Cleopatra Tryphena, daughter of king Mithridates of Pontus.
I think she's be Fantastic! She's great in everything she's ever been in! Cleopatra wasn't black anyway – she was Macedonian (that's kind of like Greek) and very short and fat. I guess people need something to do.
everyone should do research. Cleopatra was neither Egyptian or African. She was Greek
For anyone that thinks Cleopatra isn't black, what do you think Egyptians are??? Egypt is In Africa! She was a black woman, Homer look at a GLOBE!!!
Even the historians can not agree on Cleopatra's genetic race. I wasn't there, didn't see her and can't say I know what she looked like, but I'm pretty confident in saying she did NOT have white skin. I don't believe she had black skin either. The African continent today and the peoples that populate it, is not the same as it was centuries ago. Black and white folk alike are trying to claim this historical figure, and neither side has definitive proof of her race. With all the roles available for white actors/actresses out there, I think this role should have been given to someone of color (not necessarily black), to give those who don't have the opportunity to work in mainstream Hollywood, a job. Heck get Melina Kanakaredes to play the part...at least she's Greek and has SOME color. BTW – yeah, I'm black. 'Ver!
I find it extremely offensive that every time the subject of Cleopatra is brought up, black people always claim that she was black. Um, no she wasn't. She was of Greek lineage. Read your history. Do black people even realize that not everyone who is actually born on the continent of Africa is black? There are mixed races, Mediterranean, Arabic and other smaller ethnic groups as well.
I would think they would want a real good or even GREAT actress to play the part. That being a fact would certainly remove Angelina from the roll. She is not worthy to play Cleopatra.....
Lost History
Julius Ceasar & Cleopatra had a son named cesar
Mark Antony & Cleopatra had 3 children boy/girl twins
and another boy.
When ceasar was murdered by the roman senate and his oldest son Octavious took the throne
Octavious sent troops to Egypt to kill Cesar as a possible hier to the throne.
Before she died Cleopatra sent cesar to India with an envoy for his safety.
Cesar studied Budism in India for 13 years (13 missing years of Jesus Christ)
When he turned 33, he returned to (judea ?) to reclaim his throne as Jesus Christ
(JC = Julius Ceasar)
While alive The roman senate declared Ceasar a god, and Cesar son of god.
What was Jesus Christ ?
Son of god.
Cesar changed his name so he would not be killed by the romans
Mary Magdalene (one of the twins)
was Jesus' half sister.
History has many mysteries.
How do we know if Cleopatra was dark skin or not... This racist card game must stop. Angela Jolie is perfect for this part. Especially with her talents in acting. As far as I am concern there are plenty of African women who can and do act, same with all other races. Go thru the channels on tv ... you'll see.
Wow, imagine that. Another black bigoted publication playing the race card when even their own logic is false. Does anyone even care anymore?
I think the overriding factor here is Angelina's beauty. Cesar wanted her, Mark Anthony wanted her, history in her area was altered by her love life. You need a woman of extraordinary beauty, combined with a cool aloofness, able to turn on the fire in an eyeblink. This is your lady, she'll be better than Liz Taylor (no disrespect to Dame Elizabeth)
Acsanamu, I noticed that you did not mentioned black culture, etc.
How about you all just shut the hell up?
Doh!
Ptolemy XII of Egypt was born 117BC, died 51BC.
Incorrect dates in last post.
order should be
Kleopatra I. of Syria b: (204) d: (176)
Ptolemy VIII of Egypt b: (184/83) d: (28.06.116)
Ptolemy IX. of Egypt b: (143/42) d: (Dez. 81)
Ptolemy XII of Egypt b: (117) d: (51)
sorry folks
Cleopatra was descended from Greek rulers of Egypt, i.e., white.
i think Ms.Keys.........our R&B diva should play this part.....She is my favourate actoress, however just do the colour/colors a favour.... and find us a colored/coloured QUEEN....for once...please and thank you
The Ptolemaic dynasty of Egypt–of whom Cleopatra VII was the final direct ruling member–were not native Egyptians. The Ptolemies were instead Macedonian Greeks, descended from one of the generals of Alexander the Great, after the break up of his empire upon his own death.
Unfortunately, I think the trivial outrage over this movie (which will likely be horrible, anyway) is based upon people wanting to re-invent the past because they know nothing about it. There are lots of amazing historical feats by sub-Saharan Africans; indeed, there were African empires building magnificent monuments and living in cities when Europeans were living in isolated hovels waiting for the end of the world.
There is no need to rewrite history about one's own ancestors. Just read a book and find out about the real deal, and you'll see that everyone has interesting history that's worth being proud of. There's no need to make believe!
Jesus and Santa are are played by white people too. Jolie isn't historically accurate but it would be fitting for her to take on a role made so famous by elizabeth taylor since she is the liz taylor of today (i.e. no one wants to let their husband star in a movie with her b/c she will steal them). the woman needs to gain some weight however.
i don't care how people write that Egyptians were of different shades, the botton line is none of them were European,, get it people,, they were of different shades of COLOR. from light brown to the blackest of black,, it should have gone to a woman of color, again white people trying to steal another part of history,,i"m sure people would b up n arms if Julius Ceasar was play by Wesley snipes,,,, ....
You all know that Cleopatra was Greek right? She was descended from Ptolomy – one of Alexander's generals – who took control of Egypt after Alexander died (who had previously conquered the kingdom). The family didn't intermarry with local stock so she would have been very close to 100% Greek (well, Macedonian). As such, having a white woman play her is far more accurate than having a black or middle eastern woman play her.
Why not get a fair skinned African descendent to play her? Paula Patton, Zoe Saldana, Halle Berry-they are of mixed heritage but still considered black-that way everybody is happy.
Sincerely
A woman too black to play Cleopatra, Queen of Egypt
Several years ago I came across an article written by a professor who was trying very hard to understand and be sympathetic to the Afrocentric movement while obviously feeling nervous that it was going to discredit her specialty – Egyptology. Ironically, in trying to be understanding – she made the most devastating case for the pathetic grasping for something to be proud of that drives the Afrocentric curriculum and ethos. Read here – and be aware that junk history like this permeates public schools in America: http://www.africa.upenn.edu/Articles_Gen/afrocent_roth.html
Cleopatra a black African woman? No f'ing way with a name like that. If she'd been named Shiqwana, then perhaps.
If Essence wants Cleopatra to be acted by an black African woman, then they should pony up the $ to make their own movie.
There is a lot of backlash simply because Angelina is white and Cleopatra was a pharoh in Egypt. I personally don't see her as a Cleopatra like actress. However, those who are claiming that she should not get the part because she is white are the history of Egypt. Cleopatra was from the house of Ptolmey–Greek invaders with Alexander the Great–she was Greek in descent. I welcome those proponents who want to argue otherwise to look at the statues of her from the time period (when our current racial ideals were non-existent) and the coins. Actually, in reality Cleopatra was not a beauty. She however was a genius and a patriot of her nation of Egypt.
Now if this was a movie of some of the other Great Wifes or women who became Pharoh, then I would agree that such a woman should not be played by a white woman.
This isn't a question of race. It is a question of history.
I dont have an issue with Jolie playing the role. But, if it has to be a sista (woman of color) playing the role it has to be no one other than Zoe Saldena. She looks the part more than any other.
It's ridiculous to call for a black actress to play a Greek woman just because she lived in Africa. Next up, let's have black actors play the Afrikaner rulers of South Africa in a Mandela biopic.
I am so sick of seeing A Jolie that I'd rather see a gay man play Cleo than her!
Lol. "Egypt is not Africa". Is that like saying Arizona is not America? I love it how a country in Africa isnt African? FYI: There is no proof of all of Cleopatra's heritage. Only 25% is Greek for sure. Her mother was believed to be a slave/a concubine.`Her grandmother was considered Nubian.
where was the outrage when eartha kitt and halle berry played the catwoman? where was the outrage when the honeymooners was remade with a black cast? nick fury originated as a Caucasian in the comic books yet sam jackson plays him in the movies. the character gilbert was also Caucasian, but when the leave it to beaver movie was cast a black actor played the part. in the movie white chicks two black actors appeared in white face. the character of james west was played by robert conrad in the series the wild wild west , but by will smith in the movie.
After giving it some thought I think AJ is wrong for this part. If they were going for historical accuracy anyways. Natalie Portman would have been a much better fit.
If the movie really needs to be remade (I don't think any of the previous movies have made any money), I cannot think of any actress today who could portray her better.
I'd say Lucy Leu or Margaret Cho plays the part!
Um, people need to read up on history. Cleopatra was Macedonian, thats just north of Greece in Europe. So to historically represent her accurately she would need to be played by a white woman of European decent.
Leave it to hollywood blogs to know nothing of history. The other point would be of course that there is the issue with box office draw. Casting for movies is of course most often going to go to a A list celeberity especially in a drama movie with most likely little action.
If an African American or somebody with mixed background would be chosen to the role of Cleopatra, the actress should have some visible Nubian characteristics. Africa is a big place with lot of different characteristics to choose from, after all. Otherwise, Jolie is as a good choice as anyone else is, with the similar roles behind her.
Responses to this article only shows how many ignorant people in the US are about other countries and their history as well how racially divided this nation is. It is just a movie not en entry into the history books. If you want accuracy it should be an Egyptian actress with greek ancestory and if they are looking for someone to play Anthony they better find an Italianfrom Rome.
People need to learn their history. Cleopatra was the Queen of Egypt, but she was not Egyptian. She was Macedonian, a descendant of a general of Alexander the Great named Ptolemy. Cleopatra is a very Greek name. She would have looked European. This is a controversy borne of ignorance of basic historical truths
Why are all you White people so angry with black people? Who really gives a damn? Does Angelina know you personally or Cleopatra? My goodness you all sound so foolish with your angry; get a life, get edcated, move on.... We are all mixed race!!!
Why not just have Oprah play Cleo and her best friend Gail can play Mark Anthony!!!! Will that make Essence Happy now?
I'm getting really tired here of the African-American community trying to lay claim to a heritage that is not theirs. Go to any large museum and you'll see street vendors selling reproductions of tomb paintings with black faces. It just isn't true. Go inside the museum and take a good look. The Egyptians were a Caucasian race. Sharing the African continent does not make them "African" any more than I look like a Mexican. And as all the educated respondents have already stated, Cleopatra VII Philopator was of Greek descent. Even her name was Greek!
How blatantly racist can you get? To suggest that someone is inappropriate for a movie role because of the color of their skin, whether white or brown, is racism. Don't listen to the bigots at Essence. Maybe Essence should wake-up to their afro-supremacist tendencies.
I think Cleopatra should be the only person to play Cleopatra.
Time machine or genetic reconstruction. Take your pick, but anything else would just be too "unrealistic" and definitely not "true to history".
As much as different groups want to 'claim' Cleopatra, history shows she was fair skinned and eyed. That is what made her exotic to both Egyptians and the Romans, because she had her country's dress and wore dark wigs (as did a lot of Egyptians who as a people at the time shaved most body hair) but had fair features. This was also part of the charm she used, because she herself from historical portraits was not that beautiful – more unusual. Imported ruling families was not uncommon and their being exotic often help in keeping their power.
While the Egyptian people were a mix, fairer in the Upper Kingdom and darker in the Lower, Cleo herself did retain the Macedonia looks.
Reply to ROBERT: Gandhi enacted by Krishna Pandit Bhanji, aka Ben Kingsley.
Cleo was born in Egypt, which is in Africa, making her AFRICAN. And alot of people are saying if you go to Africa now that not everyone is black...Thats true but...its 2010!!!! Lets go to 69BC South Africa, Kenya, Morocco, Ethiopia, or Egypt and see how many fair skinned or white individuals we can find.
iactuallyread
If i am dark skinned how can I also be white?? Besides that, to say the Egyptians r white in general also makes little sense because 99% of the population has my skin tone....(im considered by 100% of everyone I have met to be "black") and of course Egypt is in Africa, so egyptians are african, and I will say this, back then most africans were not white.
Whether or not she is the right actress to play Cleopatra depends on your perspective. From a realism/authenticity perspective, probably not. However, the main thing a movie needs to do is make money and big name stars draw crowds and increase the chance (most of the time) that people will buy tickets and see the movie, i.e. having a big star is a financial risk reducer.
angelina would do a great job she a good actress and soo pretty .. i notice that really early in egyptian history that the painting the people looked more white thin noses smaller in size. than meny years later they looked more like africans wide noses taller guess i need to read more about it hope she gets the part . holly berry would be good too
tThere's a difference between sub-Saharan Africans and those in Northern Africa. Just think of Morroco too, and how most of them look. ..it's not the same as those from say, Kenya or Nigeria.
The Maedonians were not of the same ethnicity as the southern greeks. They had fair skin and auburn or blond hair, just like Alexander the Great.
I think Sandra Bullock would make better Cleo. Look at some of the portraits and paintings of Cleo and tell me you don't see similiar facial features in Bullock
I'm just tired of seeing her (or her husband) everywhere I look... enough already! Pick some other people for heaven's sake. She is not a good actress at all. The only thing she is good at, is getting media attention thru her scandals and that adoption obsesion she has.
NEWSFLASH: CLEOPATRA'S FAMILY LINE WAS FROM GREECE.
You know, usually I argue for roles of historical figures to be portrayed by correctly by Asians, Indians, Mexicans or whatever. But Cleopatra's family was from Greece – they were a Macedonian family. The Egyptian natives were basically held under the ruling class of people – kind of like the way Spaniards did with native Mexicans, until most of them mixed together anyway. But Jolie playing Cleopatra, while maybe annoying, wouldn't be historically incorrect in that sense.
Why don't we pretend that the Vikings were black too? Cleopatra was of Macedonian stock. Hanibal was an Arab. Get over it.
I AM A BLACK WOMAN AND CLEOPATRA WAS FROM THE LINE OF PTOLEMY. THEY WERE GREEK! I CAN SAY, THAT I DO NOT KNOW WHO HER MOTHER WAS, I CAN ONLY ASSUME THAT SHE MAY HAVE BEEN GREEK OR EYGPTIAN. SO ANY WOMAN WHO HAS SOMEWHAT EXOTIC FEATURES CAN PLAY HERE.
I UNDERSTAND WHY MOST BLACK PEOPLE WOULD BE UPSET ABOUT THIS BUT OUR ANGER IS MISPLACED ON THIS ONE. THE NUBIANS ALSO RULED EGYPT BEFORE THE PTOLEMY EMPIRE TOOK OVER EYGPT BUT THERE ARE NO EPICS BEING DONE IN HOLLYWOOD ABOUT THIS OR MANY OTHER ANCIENT AFRICAN CIVILIZATIONS THAT WERE NOT JUST RUNNING THROUGH THE BUSH WITH SPEARS! I ALSO WISH THAT EPICS WERE CREATED SHOWING OUR RICH HERITAGE; HOW WE TRAVELLED TO THE NEW WORLD BEFORE COLUMBUS, HOW COLUMBUS WAS GUIDED BY AFRICANS TO THE NEW WORLD WHICH IS LEFT OUT OF MANY HISTORY BOOKS. IT IS QUITE FRUSTRATING. HOWEVER, WITH ALL THE MONEY THAT NBA PLAYERS, OPRAH AND OTHER WEALTHY BLACK ENTERTAINERS HAVE; YOU MEAN TO TELL ME THEY CANNOT CREATE THEIR OWN PRODUCTION COMPANY AND PRODUCE THESE EPICS FOR US. THEREBY, ENLIGHTENING THE WORLD TO OUR HISTORY AND UPLIFTING OUR YOUTH THAT WE ARE NOT JUST DESCENDANTS FROM SLAVES? NOT ONLY IS THERE RICH AFRICAN HISTORY BUT THERE IS ALSO RICH CARIBBEAN HISTORY.... ALSO ON A BIBLICAL NOTE: THE QUEEN OF SHEBA COULD BE DONE BY A BLACK WOMAN OTHER THAN HALLE BERRY OR BEYONCE...LOL!. AS WELL AS ZAPPORAH, THE WIFE OF MOSES WHO WAS FROM THE LAND OF MIDIAN. I QUITE FRANKLY WAS ANNOYED AT JAKE GYLLENHAAL PLAYING THE PRINCE OF PERSIA! HEY! WHAT CAN WE DO? THIS WILL CONTINUE TO HAPPEN UNTIL THE PEOPLE OF COLOR START PRODUCING THEIR OWN EPICS AND PUTTING THEM OUT THERE OR UNTIL THE PEOPLE WHO RUN HOLLYWOOD DECIDE THAT IT CAN BE PROFITABLE TO PRODUCE AN EPIC ON PEOPLE OF COLOR.
SO ON A FINAL NOTE; ANGELINA CAN PLAY CLEOPATRA, SO CAN ANY OTHER WHITE ACTRESS IN HOLLYWOOD AS FAR AS I AM CONCERNED!
The only Greek-American actresses I can think of are comedians - Jennifer Aniston and Tina Fey and Amy Sedaris. None are right for the role. Go Italian instead - there are a lot more Italian-American actresses who could do the job. How about a biracial actress? Give it a little more thought.
What most people seem to miss here is that while Cleopatra was the Queen of Eygpt, she was of Persian stock. She was not black sorry guys. She was not white either. So Maybe an Eva Mendes or Halley Berry would be more closer to the real Cleopatra. But Hollywood will never give a role like that to anyone but a white person.
I don't see what the issue is, i have seen movies based up on books where the lead character is a white male and when the movie is made an African American plays the part, so why the difference now?
The bone collector, was made into a movie and Densel Washington played Lincoln Rhymes (did a fantastic job as well ) but in the book from which this movie is based Lincoln is a white man.
They also made a movie of one of John Sanford books (One of the Prey Series) Lucas Davenport is a olive complectied white male (possible germanic blood line) and his character was played also by a man of color.
We don't know for sure that Cleopatra was African descent or not so what is the issue
Cleopatra father was Greek/Macedonian. She spoke Egyptian – which accounted for her popularity. She was NOT black or at least not ALL black or brown. What are these people upset at? History and facts are not subject to political correctness or positive image reinforcement. Cleopatra was NOT ALL African...she was ethnically Greek/Macedonian (fathers side) – but, she was the leader of Egypt.
Maybe Hallie Berry would meet the criterion of these complainers.
Not sure anyone has brought this up or not, but not only was Cleopatra of Greek heritage but also there is a chance that there was a lot of incest going on in her family line. So the chances of any race other than Greek being in her background is very very very small.
Cleopatra wasn't black, though. She was a member of the Ptolemaic dynasty, had Macedonian heritage and spoke Greek (although she learned Egyptian).
This article by CNN is just plain lazy reporting and very misleading for the simple fact that THERE IS NO BACKLASH against Jolie as Cleopatra. I read the original (totally ignorant) article at Essence.com and on the reader comments for the piece almost EVERYBODY states that the writer is making a mountain out of a molehill and playing the race card over nothing. Shame on you CNN for adding fuel to a non-exisiting fire.
There's seriously "Backlash" over this?
Americans need to get a life and adjust their priorities.
Cleopatra was an Egyptian but she was not black. The Egyptians living there are basically the same people that were there 3000 years ago. The suggestion that the modern Egyptians came from somewhere else is BS.
I firmly believe some white historians tried to rewrite history according to their superior believes and not facts. Many Egyptians discoveries came about from white historians who could not believe African blacks had anything to do with such a great civilization so they wrote it their way. Wish it wasn't true but its happened and that's a fact. I have spoken to native Africans who absolutely believe Ancient Egypt was built by Egyptian blacks. How could it not be? There weren't many white skinned folks around then. It wasn't until later when Egypt was conquered by others did the mixing begin and brought about the lighter skin tones. Cleo probably was Greek – I don't really care, but make no mistake – darker skinned Africans started it all (whites were not native to Africa during this time in case that wasn't obvious) they have migrated in or conquered other lands where people of color exist as always in history. I would also say you can't live that close to the black continent without having some black blood running thru your veins suggesting Italians, Greeks, Arabs all have some black African ancestry, especially if you have even a hint of curl in your hair. We're all tied together in someway shape or form...
Halle Berry wpi;d be better. Brad Pitt was a disaster as Alexander, I don't see him any better as Mark Anthony. He is too American looking.
I believe that a better candidate might be Rosario Dawson. She is of "color", though Hispanic which gives a great exotic feel, as well as being a proven actress she can play many versatile roles.
Cleopatra, was not an Egyptian ethnically. She was 100% Greek. Her family, the Ptolomies, was incestuous only intermarrying amongst themselves in Egypt. Seems like a cool choice to me.
Sorry, Ralph; you need a geography lesson – Egypt is in AFRICA, and Cleopatra was EGYPTIAN; therefore, she WAS African.
This comment is directed at Lily:
Per comment:
Lily
"Being of the Ptolemaic line of Egyptian pharoahs, Cleopatra was primarily of Macedonian (Greek) descent. She was not a woman of color. People really need to get over that. I don't know why African-Americans are always insisting that she was black, because she wasn't. Busts and coins from her lifetime depict Cleopatra with caucasian features. Angelina would be a great fit for this role, as she is a talented actress."
My comment:
As an African American woman, I find it extremely offensive for you to state and I quote... "I don't know why African-Americans are always insisting that she was black, because she wasn't. Busts and coins from her lifetime depict Cleopatra with caucasian features."
What exactly defines caucasian features? Furthermore, what defines African American features? Last time I checked...African Americans and ALL PEOPLE, come in all sizes, shapes, and colors. Therefore, again I state...who are you to make such an ignorant statement???
A. Jolie is an awesome actress by the way... 🙂
I just don't see Jolie as a Cleopatra. I mean she's about 2 big lips on stick now.
For all you people talkng something about Egyptians and being white.
I know some black people that are as light as a lot of white people.
Anyway, I think they need someone voluptous for the part of cleopatra.
If she wasn't such a dumba$$ and could act Kim Kardashian would make a good Cleopatra. I just don't think I could take watching her try to act for 2 hours in a movie.
I mean she has the look and the body for a Cleopatra but thats all.
Rachael Wiez might do all right.
All these beanpole actresses just couldn't do Cleopatra though.
CLEOPATRA WAS NOT BLACK!!! GO GET A FIFTH GRADE HISTORY BOOK ESSENCE MAGAZINE.
Let Jennifer Aniston play Cleo, Brad Pitt play M.A. and Jolie can watch as Jen steals Brad back...
To everyone who keeps saying that Cleopatra was not African, please look at a world map. Egypt is in fact, in Africa. Cleopatra was in fact a very dark skinned woman. Our bodies adapt to the environment we live in. During her time, the Egyptians had the propensity to be outside-they farmed, built their cities, gathered water at the river-most of their activities would have occured outside. Their bodies would have adapted to that, darkening their skin to keep them from burning. The point here, I believe, is that there are many, many qualified black actresses who can portray Cleopatra successfully. Why should Angelina Jolie play yet another black woman? The entire world would throw a hissy fit if you had a black man, no matter how "light skinned" he may be, to play John Kennedy, for instance. It's not a question of whether or not she could play the part well. But, as I said, there are also many black actresses who could play the part just as well AND be ethnically correct. Why shouldn't they choose a black woman to play this part?
The equality meter swings both ways. Even if Cleo was dark skinned, why could'nt she be depicted by a white woman. African Americans have a President of their color. Get off the victim train people.
Cleopatra was MACEDONIAN, NOT Egyptian, in terms of her bloodline. Learn your history, please. Cleopatra is a Macedonian name, and Cleopatra herself was a Ptolemy, a descendant of a Macedonian general who served under Alexander the Great.
She was NOT black. We have lots of sources who wrote about her during her life and afterwards, and NONE of them mention her as being black.
Stop with the race-baiting, folks.
OK let's be politically correct, the next Godzilla film director should cast call for a real 100 foot tall reptilian. Give me a break!
opposing a white woman playing Cleopatra is racist. you should all be beaten and burned
She can certainly pull it off. St. Angie is a great woman & actress. So she gets a tan if needed. no big whoop.
I am not sure why so many people are calling others ignorant and asserting as fact that Cleopatra was Greek. THe truth is that no one knows for sure what she was, or what she looked like, although we are fairly certain she possessed BOTH African and Greek ancestry.
To say that she is a Greek because she had Greek relatives is like saying that Obama is white because his mother is white. THe Cleopatra in question was most likely a mixture of African and European descent, like many African Americans.
To assert that Cleopatra is Greek, and deny the facts of history, is a form of symbolic racism – a denial that racism exists, and an indirect attack on African Americans. Shame on you!!!!
...so Cleopatra was African-American?
You know there is such a thing as just plain old Africans.
Newsflash Ralf: Egypt is in Africa.
Ralph
Got to think there are a number of arab woman who could play the part. Cleo was not an African.
If you don't like Angelina as Cleopatra then don't pay to see the movie.
Elsewise, get a life.
Read your History.
Cleopatra was Greek desent. From one of Alexander"s generals. Ptholomy(?) Northern Greek area.
If race back then was anything like it is today, the Ptolemy Dynasty would have been hiding that one drop of black blood. Hollywood will hire the actress that will bring in the most money and that probably will not be a black actress. Black actors in films do not draw the crowds in Europe, so I've read. If folks are upset over this, just wait till someone seriously ponders the casting of a black actor as Jesus Christ. After all, there are those who don't believe that He was white or Jewish.
Cleopatra is of Greek decent. I say let a Greek woman play her. First person that comes to mind is Melina Kanakaredes. She's got that Greek beauty that I personally think is haunting yet classic.
Let me start off by saying I really don't care who plays the character of Cleopatra...
I just wanted to state that certain individuals like to interpret things in their own way... I sternly believe that Cleopatra was of African descent... guess what I could pass for a Caucasian woman any day and you know what I am African American.. YES I am bi-racial but I am African American... so what does that tell you.. I just want individuals to stop trying to portray Cleopatra as a Caucasian lady because she was NO WHERE near Caucasian...
As many have mentioned, it's a well known fact that the ruling class in Egypt at the time was almost exclusively of Greek heritage. They intermarried to preserve the royal bloodline, so it is unlikely that Cleo was "Egyptian". That being said, Angelina doesn't look very Greek either.
It doesn't matter who play the role, the movie will bomb anyway. She will just make it even less bankable.
Why are they going on and on about an African woman should play the part. They should have done their homework and then they would have seen that Cleopatra was of Greek decent and not African! This article is bull! But I do agree that Angelina is not suited for this part!
What a ridiculous debate. The real Cleopatra was no more a "black woman" than she was a Smurf - this is History 101, people.
You do realize that Cleopatra is decedent of the Greeks right? Just saying, so a white women is a logical choice.
ding dong. whats going on here
Since Cleo was Greek, make the version " My Big Fat Greek Wedding on the Nile."
where was the outrage when eartha kitt and halle berry played the catwoman? where was the outrage when the honeymooners was remade with a black cast? nick fury originated as a Caucasian in the comic books yet sam jackson plays him in the movies. the character gilbert was also Caucasian, but when the leave it to beaver movie was cast a black actor played the part.
Cleopatra was a Ptolemy. That family was one of Alexander's generals and was Greek. So Cleopatra was Greek.
Ergo, white.
I'm not a big fan of Angelina Jolie, but I actually think she would we well cast as Cleopatra. Keep in mind the real Cleopatra was not a native Egyptian, she was of Greek ancestry from a mostly pure (even incestuous) bloodline. If you look at the (few) reliable ancient images we have today of Cleopatra, she doesn't look African and actually does look a bit like Angelina Jolie, perhaps with a fuller face. Cleopatra was not the great beauty of her day; rather, her intelligence and engaging personality are what won attention.
Jolie should play Cleo no more than Russel Crowe should play Michael Jackson!
The Ptolemy dynasty of which Cleopatra was a member was from Greece. They were olive skinned not black. The only problem with Jolie is she is TOO DAMNED SKINNY! She needs to put some weight on that bod and get her boobs back.
I wonder if folks from the Congo or Liberia or Kenya or Morocco or Tanzania or Sudan or Mali or Ghana or Chad are as outraged as African-Americans are.
I am willing to wager they aren't, since they don't have the concept of "black people" like Americans do. In Morocco, for example, Berbers do not consider themselves to be anything like the rest of the groups in Morocco, much less the rest of the continent.
Either they pick an Egyptian actress or they can pick whoever they think fits the role since a "black" actress would have the same issues as a white one for the role. Egyptians were Egyptian. Cleopatra had Ptolemaic blood in her, making her a mix.
She can't act her way out of a handbasket anyway. She's quite ugly. So give her the role with her boy lover Brad.
im quoting an actual archaelogist who has previously posted on this question:
"Cleopatra's mother 'was African'
Elizabeth Taylor's European Cleopatra persists in the public imagination
Cleopatra, the last Egyptian Pharaoh, renowned for her beauty, was part African, says a BBC team which believes it has found her sister's tomb.
Queen Cleopatra was a descendant of Ptolemy, the Macedonian general who ruled Egypt after Alexander the Great.
But remains of the queen's sister Princess Arsinoe, found in Ephesus, Turkey, indicate that her mother had an "African" skeleton.
Experts have described the results as "a real sensation."
The discovery was made by Hilke Thuer of the Austrian Academy of Sciences.
"It is unique in the life of an archaeologist to find the tomb and the skeleton of a member of Ptolemaic dynasty," she said.
They were real people and not the semi-mythical figures portrayed by Richard Burton and Elizabeth Taylor
Archaeologist Neil Oliver"
so i guess that means she was mixed:part-Maecdonian, part-African.
not really a stretch , since cleopatra WAS queen of an african nation. it has been also surmised by MANY historians,archaelogists, and geneticists that many mediterranean europeans more than likely have DIRECT african ancestry.
hye, i just remembered; didn't the moors occupy spain,greece,and italy for 900 years?yeah, dennis hopper gave a nice soliliquy on that topic in the film, True Romance.
so um... get soledad obrien 2 play cleopatra. just as physically qualified as angelina....
I can't believe Cleopatra just became White..............................................LOL
Ben Kingsley was half Indian. FYI
Cleopatra was the last Egyptian Pharoah. Yes, she was from Egypt, but, she was also a from the Ptolomy Dynasty. Anyone who knows about Ancient Egypt knows that the Macedonian (Greek), Alexander the Great conquored Egypt and left Ptolomy I in charge thuis starting that dynasty. Cleopatra was of greek blood! Do your research!!! I think Jolie would be a great choice.
...the real cleopatra was under 4 feet tall and over 300 lbs... i'm just saying. i'm sick of hollywood "historical" movies.
SERIOUSLY IT LOOKS LIKE IS ANOTHER MEDIA PROPAGANDA TO CONTROL MOBB AND TELL THEM WHAT TO THINK....I POTSED YESTERDAY COMMENTS LIKE ANGELINA IS SOOO PERFECT FOR THIS ROLE BECAUSE
OF THE COMPLEXITY OF CHARACTER AND OTHER DIMENSION OF PERSONALITIES.
ANGELINA IS MUCH,MUCH MORE THEN THE REST OF THIS HOLYWOOD ACTRESSES,THEY SO LAME
LIKE EMPTY NUTSHELLS WHER THE SOUL SUPOSE TO RESIDE,JOLIE IS ON HIGHER LEVEL OF EVOLUTION
IT REALLY DIDNT MATTTER IF SHE WILL PLAY OR NOT SHE SHINE HER LIGHT AND MAKE OTHER WOMEN PROUD
Lest we forget: the real Cleopatra, like all of the Ptolemaic pharaohs, was of GREEK descent! She was highly unlikely to be black! Jolie is as believable as Cleo as anyone else. There is no reason to insist upon a black Cleopatra other than to set a precedent, since few if any Greeks are black.
Just as an FYI for all of you mentioning Ghandi, Indians are Caucasian, anthropologically speaking, just as Egyptians and most of the peoples of the Middle East happen to be.
I think she should be played by a Native American. Preferably a double major.
Maybe that Indian lady Aiswariya Rai or Salma Hayek should play that role that would match perfectly
Listen...there are so many more important issues to discuss than trying (key word..trying because after thousands of years, NO ONE in THIS LIFETIME really knows) to figure out what color/race Cleopatra was. Who the hell cares!!!!!! Make the movie as historically correct as possible and be done with it! This is just another example on how Americans...of ALL RACES, are too caught up with the superficial aspect of this movie and not about how this movie is to depict the life of an Egyptian queen...regardless of her ancestry! Too much damn debate on this....move on people!!!
Angie. Only Angie. She's so exotically beautiful I will want to
see this movie because of her beauty.
If they want to have an accurate portrayal, then they need to get an actress who has a close resemblance to Cleopatra. I've seen the monuments and drawings of Cleopatra. Based on my observation, there is no clear distinction of race. I would rather have a great actress portray her if the movie is just as great.
Cleopatra, the famous one and the 7th and last Cleopatra, was NOT Egyptian and not of African dark-skinned descent. She was the daughter of Ptolemy, who was Macedonian (which is in Europe). He was a general in Alexander the Great's army and his trusted advisor. Alexander came to rule Egypt when he liberated Egypt from Persian rule. Yes, by this time in history, Egypt was no longer ruled by Egyptians.
Ptolemy ascended to rule Egypt after the death of Alexander. Alexander the Great was also not Egyptian, but Macedonian. Macedonians were generally fair skinned with brown or blond hair.
Cleopatra was NOT a beautiful woman, as Hollywood insists on depicting her so they can sell tickets. Instead her allure and ability to attract powerful men (first Julius Caeser, then Mark Antony) was her intelligence, assertiveness and ambition, unusual for women of that era. Images depicting her show her with a decidedly large and hooked nose. I am the proud owner of an authentic bronze drachma from her reign showing her profile. Yikes, what a nose! lol
The very early history of Egypt included very dark-skinned rulers, called Pharoahs, who had physical and facial similarities to modern day black Africans. Some rulers were very dark, others much lighter. But by the time of Cleopatra and those who followed her, it was Europeans who ruled over Egypt, and thus they were Caucasians.
If you ever have the fortune to travel to Egypt, as I have on several occasions, and see their museums and ancient temples, you'll see what I'm talking about.
So the objection of a 'white' woman portraying Cleopatra is not historically relevant. Instead we should object to beautiful women portraying her!
my friends, there is no doubt the egyptias are africans as well as the carthatgenias. the egyptians of ancient times were african, but not black. To be african does not mean to be black. since ancient times there has been a remarkable diference between subsaharan (south of the sahara descert) africans (the ones with "black skin") and the africans that lived north of the sahara. The reazon why we see people with black skin in the rescued egyptian artifacts, paintings, etc, is because the egyptians had a dynasty for about 100 years of the nubian line of kings. in other periods egyptians also captured and enslaved the nubians, a remarkable civilization occupied lands north and south of the sahara. they were black skin people. the egyptians themselves where not black per se, they where in their entire majority more like a middle eastern people. It is true maybe some of them might have been mixed with the nubians. Anyways cleopatra, was not egyptian she was of greek descendance. the carthageneans are another good example. they were a phoenician colony (phoenicians are today's lebanese), therefore they were not black, neither were black the people they conquered. still in the history channel they represented annibal as a man with black features, and his father amilcar as black, and that is a big mistake. the ancient sculpture of annibal shows otherwise he was not black.
yall just hate black ppl, just admit it.
...and you're a racist.
I think that the little black girl from the movie Precious would be the perfect Cleopatra...LOL...Come on people, are we really going to argue about whether or not a black woman plays Cleopatra...you bunch of racists!
The part should have gone to the woman who played Russell Crowe's wife in Gladiator, Giannina Facio. She is Costa Rican but definitely has the look. She's a beautiful woman and would do the part justice. Just my opinion...
I think that we should go full cause of political correctness and cast Gabourey Sidibe as Cleopatra.
I am ok with either Angelina Jolie or Vanessa Williams playing the role as Cleopatra. They both have that royalty look mixed with snake venom that is perfect for the part.
I get it, they want a hot A-list celebrity to make this movie a huge blockbuster, Liz Taylor made the most famous Cleo after all and no one ever complained about a violet-eyed Cleopatra... so how about Eva Mendez for example...? or Jennifer Lopez (if she could only act!)? I think Angie could do a good job but it's so predictable, so uninteresting!
African American need to do their research! Cleo was not black, she was Greek! She was a member of the Ptolemaic dynasty! They were the royal family which ruled the Ptolemaic Empire in Egypt. They just took the Epytian culture. Also, ppl from Epytian are not black!
I can't believe anybody would raise this as an issue about race. The arguments from Essence and Clutch Mag are silly and petty. There is just this blind parroting that [some] Egyptians were black, so this must be an important race issue of our day! If a role going to a white person multiple times is their main concern, then maybe they'll complain about the role of Freddy Krueger next. Cleopatra was Greek. Look her up in womenoftheancientworld.com. Also, coins from that era show what her profile looked like. She looks more Greek than African. Also, her beauty is disputed, so why not whine for an ugly actress? If you want to be taken seriously, please focus on serious issues. Also, what a callous thing to say: "I don't care how full Angelina Jolie's lips are, how many African children she adopts..." You sound like a horrible person using ugly rhetoric in a weak attempt to make an argument. Do these magazines hire people off the street?
Ya'll are funny! Let's be for real...your arguments are not based on historical or anthropological fact. Egyptians have changed in appearance over the centuries. However, let's not sit here and pretend that the world's first inhabitants were AFRICAN and by that I mean BLACK with traditional African/Black features. Now let's give it credit that Cleopatra was mixed there are biracial actresses all of the time. AND if you want to talk about traditionally white parts given to black actors then let's flip it for this one. This is a traditionally white part let's try an African American. Not to mention I don't feel Angelina Jolie can act unless she's acting a part that requires her to be crazy which is not far from her actual personality and therefore not TRULY acting.
Uh, Cleopatra was Greek, not African by descent. Ptolomeic dynasty anyone? Get an education before yelling about racism.
Wow...Finally an Important story
I am Egyptian, my grandfather was a coptic Christian Egyptian, ask anyone, they are the original Egyptians with Pharoh lineage, I am not exactly an aryan but I am fair skinned and considered to be white/caucasian, my mother and brother have blue eyes so do many in my family, hate to break to you folks, but Egyptians are definitely not black and many look like angelina jolie, unfortunately not as good looking. The only thing wrong with Angelina Jolie playing this role is that she is simply far too good looking to be Cleopatra. Cleopatra was very powerful and also very ugly. It is absurd to think that Egyptians are/were black! What's next, Jesus was black too?
YOU ARE A REAL JOKE. GOOD STORY LINE.
I think people are forgetting Cleopatra was Greek. She was raised in Egypt and ruled there, but was not Egyptian.
The decision should be left to the producers of the film. They are the one who spend the money . Jolie is aninternational celebrity who can bring backloads of money. I dont think colored / white makes sense here....you gottta think who can justify the money spent..
As a History teacher, I am appauled that Jolie is playing the role of a Black woman. Can white people respect the fact that Africans contributed great things to this society and that Black people should play those roles. Another case of white supremacy at its work. Can you imagine Anne Frank being played by a Black 12 year old girl? Emphatically , no!!
I can only hope you never teach my children.
What kind of History do you teach that you understand Cleopatra to be black? That's confusing!
As someone with a history degree....Where did you get your degree and where do you teach? I will NOT be sending my child there.
This post is just scary.
Egyptians are and were more middle eastern or medditerranean, not sub-Saharan African or "Black".
Seriously, Egyptians were not Nubians or sub saharan Africans, and never have been.
Come on people, pick a typical Egyptian looking actress to play Cleopatra, neither typical "black" nor typical "white" but more middle eastern or mediterranean would be the most accurate. How about a Hispanic actress? That would be closer than either White or Black.
Black, White. WHO CARES! As long as it's a good movie, not some of the dreck that Hollywood has been expecting us to pay our hard earned money for.
Oh by the way I'm a person of color.
I think that the role should go to who ever matches her the most. I'm tired of Angelina always playing people of color. Why not just get someone that is of color. It seems like a race thing to me as if black women or just women of color don't deserve to play these parts in movies.
Cleopatra being greek, how about Nia Zarvalos? If the mobs want an African actress, how about Gabby Sidibe?
Backlash by blacks = blacklash. Most people - including whites - are ignorant of the fact that Cleopatra was not a sistah, but blacks have an emotional investment in this myth so they will continnue to believe what they want to believe. Brace yerself.
CLEOPATRA WAS GREEK, NOT AFRICAN!
Angelina is too old to play this part. There are so many other better actresses that could play this part. We are all sick of this over exposed and over rated talentless actress.
Egypt was originally named Kemet which is literally translated as Black Land. Kemet was not originally the land of Arab people as it is today. The great civilization of Kemet was the home to Africans and it is infuriating to see Egyptians of those times portrayed by white and light bronze people. That is a desperate attempt to white wash history. Yes, Cleopatra was the daughter of Pharaoh Ptolemy XII Auletes. But, who was her mother? Cleopatra was born in Alexandria, Egypt and her father had adopted all of the customs of the Egyptians. Why is that? Who was her mother? Cleopatra was an Egyptian woman. She was Greek and African. Period.
The people saying the actress should be black know Cleopatra was Greek, right?
Cleopatra was of Greek ancestry
Based on paitings and portraits of Cleo, I beileve Sandra Bullock would be a better choice. Compare the two, I think you will see some similarity.
Ah yes, the vocal segment of the "African American" community, never letting good old facts get in the way of getting all self-righteous.
I want to know who is teaching the african american community that Africa is made up of all dark skinned folks. Please people research before you make yourselves sound bad.
Here are a few suggestions: Viola Davis, Angela Bassett, Jill Scott, Dana Owens (aka Queen Latifah) or any up and coming Egyptian actress.
First....not to be a downer to those who think they understand history but cleopatra was a greek for crying out loud. Just because someone was in afgrica doesn't make them AFRICAN and African doesn't mean BLACK.
I think people saying Cleopatra has to be African American needs to get their facts correct. If you look at the birth of this controversy it goes back to the African Americans need to challenge the popular misconception that African Americans were by nature inferior. Hence they looked to Egypt, one of the first great civilization and made wild claims that the civilzation was black. Unfortunately, this is based on false premise and it almost equivilant to someone claiming 3000 years from now that the great American civilzation was indeed native american! The truth is the that several dynasties from the middle east including Mesoptamians conquered Egypt and its indeginous community which might as well have been black and started to integrate with them. Hence, the Egyptians society was a multi-cultural society way before the Greeks even made their way to Egypt! So to claim that Cleopatra was a black is misleading! She was probably of a mixed race but if you look at her bust it seems like she has very sharp features something that most African-Americans don't have! Besides if you really want to cast someone according to the race of Cleopatra you need to find someone with a mix of semetic-african-greek heritage i.e an egyptian and hence a brown person. I cannot see Beyonce playing this role can you? And if you go for someone like Hallie Berry then again you have justified the argument that Egyptians were not black because Hallie Berry is a mix between white and black. I personally don't think Elizabeth Taylor fit that role as she was way too caucausian more atune to playing a northern european than southern european and didn't have that air of mystery and exoticness to her. But I believe Angelina Jolie brings that mystery and exoticness and fits the role pretty well! What is the PROBLEM with AFRICAN AMERICANS??? Don't they have something more constructive to do for their community which is facing so much hardship???!!!!
Historically there are indications that the last Cleopatra was a blonde Greek. Personally I don't think Angelina Jolie is that good a choice. Talented yes, pretty no. How about Hallie Berry? Or a Middle Eastern actress or Mediterranean one?
If we know Cleopatra was "Black" for a fact, and we do. A black woman should play that role.
There are enough Egyptian actors and actresses....USE THEM!!! The same was with Prince of Persia...use all middle eastern people!!! Its 2010 and we are still not being fair to other cultures in the melting pot...think about it. Its just rude and a bit disrespectful.
like people that read essence really know or care about history. These are the same people that still uses slavery as a crutch. They should just write about rap,basketball and hair extentions, or maybe that Obama is great.
Cleopatra was the last member of the Ptolemaic dynasty that ruled Egypt, the Hellenistic dynasty which had been founded 300 years before by Ptolemy I Soter, one of the Greek generals in Alexander the Great's army. Her language was Greek, and she was the FIRST of that Greek dynasty who learned Egyptian. Cleopatra was not black.
Beautiful actress, beautiful person, beautiful Cleopatra, YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Brad would be a bonus!
Black people need to actually visit Egypt to know that black people don't populate the area like almond color people do. Just because its Africa does not mean its all black and it hasn't been for centuries. It's a freaking continent with vast diversity.On top of that, when are people going to realize that Cleopatra and her decedents were of Macedonian origin...very white, and kept alive at the throne by inbreeding. Go visit the place people and stop the ignorance among you black folks. -Hispanic adventurer–
I do not care what role this woman plays, I will not spend money on any of her movies. I have never, nor do I now, believe that this woman what she portrays herself to be. I never met her, however, when I look at her pictures, I do not see a goodness. I see something complete different and I do not believe she does what she does out of the goodness of her heart. I don't care if they were white, black, brown or purple, anyone would have been better than Angelina Jolie.
Elizabeth Taylor set a high bar with her protrayl of Cleopatra. The actress playing her must be of strong character and inner strength as well as beautiful. I've seen four films Jolie has starred in and her range as an actress is pretty limited in my opinion. And if you think because Jolie is a name that this alone will be people into the theaters, it will not.
There are plenty of actress to choose from who would fit the bill. My personal choice is a less known name, but I think she is a very good actress, very strong, and an amazing beauty - Moreena Baccrin.
I don't care what role this woman plays, I will not spend money on any of her movies. I have never, nor do I now, believed this woman does what she does out of the goodness of her heart. I've never met her but from what she gives off in her photos is someone who is not what they portray. I don't care if they are white, black, brown or purple, anyone would have been better than Angelina Jolie.
Cleopatra was a descendant of Ptolmet who was a Macedonia generasl that served with Alexander the Great.
If you don't like the choice, try and become a casting director and fix all these great social ills. Shesh, it's a MOVIE!
Cleopatra was Greek. Part of the Ptolemic Dynasty
Mike @ 2:38 pm... except all those characters are fictious and could be any "color" the author/illustrator wanted them to be (I mean, there aren't really giant green people like The Hulk). Cleopatra was a real woman, with a real race/color, and that doesn't change just because people decide they want her to look different.
Cleopatra was of Greek decent, yes she ended up living in Egypt which is located on the continent of Africa, but some Egyptians consider themselves African, some Arabic, some Caucasian (in today's world). I think the only people who can truly say what Egyptians considered themselves back in Cleopatra's day were those who lived then. I hate Angelina Jolie, I don't think she's a good actress, this is just my opinion. I think they could find someone better to play the role. There are plenty of exotic looking actresses out there, why pick the most overrated, anorexic woman in Hollywood?
Cleopatra was a member of the Ptolemy family and was Greek, therefore, white.
This is stupid. Cleo was Greek. Please learn the facts before making comments. I would also point out that companies which make films are companies that are in the business of making money. Therefore, they are going to cast whoever gives them the greatest chance of profit. Movies are about entertainment not historical accuracy.
All the best,
I would love to see Halle Berry or Queen Latifa play this role because they are very good actresses. They are both marketable and would do a great job; and not because they are both black. As stated in a previous post, why should it be about race? It should be about who will bring in the largest crowd. Personally, I would not go see a film with Pitt or Jolie, because I have not gotten over how they both treated my girl Jennifer. The final decision will be made by the author, so why are we getting all bent out of shape over a role and who plays it. You will either see the movie or you will not.
I absoutely love the idea of Angelina playing Cleopatra! If these stupid people would read World History they would find that Cleopatra was actually a Greek. She was not from Egypt. Her father conquered Egypt to become King. Ok losers pick your grade school world history book and READ!
Why all the fuss. Angelina fits the role of Cleopatra to a T: she's beautiful, she's a terrific actress and she's of mixed ancestry. So, quit your whining, already.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/also_in_the_news/7945333.stm
I guess most of us have seen the real Cleopatra in person to know exactly what she looks like. Just because some book said she had Blue eyes, Blonde hair and fair skin doesn't mean it's correct.
If Hollywood is going to make a movie about a black queen then they should put a black actress in to play that part, there's a lot of beautiful black actresses out there they could of picked other than, a caucasian pale skinned woman, so what if she adopts black children.That role should be played strictly by a black goddess not some one who don't even have a culture of that status, trying to be something she could never be. What else Hollywood is going to lie about.
This is hilarious. Why does everyone have to be black, or, excuse me, "of color." Even when 2,000 years worth of historical records firmly establish that this is not true? Cleopatra was a nice Macedonian woman, and for goodness sake, even the name "Cleopatra" is about as Macedonian as they come! It amazes me that any press outlet is even giving these claims that she should have been played by a black woman any credence at all! Ethnically speaking, Angelina Jolie is very capable of performing this role and in fact has portrayed another woman from that region – she previously played Olympius, Alexander the Great's mother (who was from Epirus, but close enough).
Guys, pick your battles. This was not a wise choice for controversy – because there is no controversy!
Wow I cant beleive I read most of these post... Just as most history has been re-written to suit there beleifs why is this any diffrent..just let it go and wait for this movie to hit the bigscreen for a week then off to DVD...lol
This is a response to Ralph. "Cleo" was African, Egypt is in Africa!! The sorry American public school system always try to take Egypt out ofAfrica. Africans come in ALL shades, not just 'tar'. Also the hairstyle you see depicted in all the artifacts is called conrows, braids, etc. Something Bo Derek borrowed from Black women !!!
Who should play the Klingon on the next Star Trek??
Although Cleopatra's paternity is historically assured, her mother's race can not be verified. Her mother is generally believed to be Cleopatra V Tryphaena of Egypt, the sister or cousin and wife of Ptolemy XII, which would make her Macedonian as well. To state that Cleopatra's mother was black is simply a false (politically biased) assumption. The weight of evidence says Cleopatra was white. But then, Hollywood has a well-established practice of sodomizing history for the sake of political correctness. In the end, though.......they will go with the biggest box office draw. I would look forward to seeing Angelina in the role (as long as Brad doesn't play Mark Antony!)
Once again, its turned into a Black/White thing by someone black.
Cleopatra was Greek, anyone with an education knows this.
i dont have a problem with angelina playing cleo but halle berry would of been preferrable because egypt is in africa. but angelina is a good person and a great actress im sure she would make a great cleo... o yea cleo never had blue eyes lol o well
If a black man can play a Norse God in Thor...then anyone can play anyone in a movie.
actually, there were 7 Cleopatras. The most famous was the 7th.
I think Angelina is an excellent choice for Cleopatra. She has a beautiful, exotic look and is a wonderful actor! It's racist to say she can't play the role because of her heritage.
I think she'd probably do fine. I think Halle Berry would be great for the part though. =D
Having spent a bit of time in that part of the world and interacted with more than a few Egyptians, I have to say that I met more WHITE looking Egyptians than those that looked like Black Africans–come to think of it I never really ran into any that were that dark. The darkest Egyptians I met looked more Arab or Hispanic in their skin tone. I think Angelina Jolie would make for a great Cleopatra... 🙂
CandyLand was going on about type-casting earlier but I have a questions about that. If it's so bad and you are so upset that the only jobs in Hollywood for blacks is playing the bad parts, why do these actors and actoresses accept the parts if they are so bad? I can tell you why. It's a job. I really don't like it when people from the South are played as dumb rednecks from Deliverance. I guess if you are from the South you have the exact same accent no matter what state you are from. I'm from Tennessee and my accent is different than someone from North Carolina, Georgia or Alabama.
We all have been type casted at some point. Hollywood is going to give the role to the person that will bring in the most money. I like historically accurate movies. So, if anything they should have choose an Egyptian or Greek.
Cleopatra was quite the inbred queen. Her skin was not white, but she certainly was not “black.”
The facts that support the argument that she was black has too many flaws and is a glamorized claim.
That she was not black is supported by incomplete but historically consistent evidence.
Look at her she is going to have to gain some weight and grow some curvs like real women had during that erra. Bad choice even beyond her color.
Cleopatra was neither black nor ethnically Egyptian. Cleopatra is a Macedonian name and her family was so inbred it is unlikely she would have looked like anything but a Macedonian, similar to Alexander the Great.
There were "black" African rulers of eygpt at one time but Cleopatra was not one of them ... she was Greek.
I think Angelina is perfect for the part, and would love to see Brad play Mark Anthony!!!
Everything is about money at the end of the day, "Stacy Schiff, author of the forthcoming “Cleopatra: A Life,” reportedly endorsed Jolie to play the role " for the writer to be endorsing an specific actor/actress is because they know that particular person will bring many people to see the movie, that means a bigger cut for the writter and more than their 15 minutes of fame, by the way, not in favor of any race, Alicia Keys looks more like Cleo than Angelina.
I find the debate about Cleopatra's ethnicity and subsequent visual appearance to be fascinating. But for me, you don't even have to go that far with this issue...Jolie isn't a good actor, nor is Pitt. They're popular because of their looks, but not known for their acting ability.
Give the parts to people who can act. It's going to be hard, though. So many in Hollywood are there to be eye candy, and not because of their talent.
Predicition, only their die hard fans will show up and it will stink.
This is a headline?
Who fricken cares? It's a movie! It's entertainment. Nick Steele was supposed to white but was played by Sam Jackson. No one had a problem with that.
This question suffers from serious presentism. "Black" is a category that has shifted over time, and means different things in different times and places. Prior to WWI, "Macedonians of Greek descent" would not have been considered "white" by many Americans. After WWII, in contrast, many people in the U.S. would have considered Macedonians–like Italians, Jews, and other "white ethnics"–to be "white."
At the time, Cleopatra's skin color would not have been a salient issue, though her lineage would have been considered important. Still, regardless of the particular shade of her skin, the social categories of "blackness" and "whiteness" had not yet been invented.
As I recall, Cleopatra was Macedonian (Greek)....so maybe it's LESS historically accurate to have her played by a woman of color?
Cleopatra is of Greek decent as is Jennifer Aniston (her father is Greek). Girlfriend just can't catch a break 🙂
Cleopatra was from the Macedonian/Greek Ptolemaic Dynasty. She was not African, nor was she black (as most aboriginal people of Egypt were not black, but olive skinned). As a woman of Greek/ Macedonian ancestory myself, I'm sick and tired of the African American community hijacking this woman of my heritage in the name of making themselves feel good and political correctness. Get your own (real) heroes and heroines. I will say this, however, Angelina Jolie is a terrible choice to play Cleopatra. How about doing an authentic representation of her for once and using someone with a Greek/Macednonian background or who at least looks like they have that ancestory? Enough is enough already.
Explain to me why the actress has to be a woman of color? She was GREEK not african american.....just give them something to say WOES ME I'M GETTING THE SHAFT. I wish they would all go back to africa.
I am so sick and tired of African Americans thinking that because Egypt was once a great civilization that that proves they are all of some sort of royalty. I hate hearing about "African Queens." Egyptians are only African because of location. They are not African, they are Arab. I hate to sound racist, but come on 99.9% of Africans have absolutely nothing outside of living in poverty. And yes, I have spent a great deal of time in many countries throughout Africa.
Forget her color. Cleopatra was 18 when she became co-ruler with her brother and 21 when she met Caesar. If Angelina can pull it off at age 35, then we're talking Oscar!
Egyptians are typically olive skinned with similar features of Caucasians. They are definitely NOT black even thought Egypt is part of Africa. To believe all peoples and countries on the continent of Africa are black is just pure ignorance. Having said that, I do wish they would have cast a Middle Eastern actress for the role. I like Ms. Jolie but would prefer to see Cleopatra portrayed by someone of her own lineage.
is not that she has to be black, white or naturally bronzed (personally i would go with natural bronze), but it is actually a matter of weather she has the body to pull this off. cleopatra was either a middle eastern, north african, mediterranean or egyptian woman. what ever! she was exotic. she was curvy and beautiful, with a great looking body. angelina jolie has none of the above. she has big lips. that's it! she doesn't have a shaped body, she's not beautiful, and specially not curvy. that is what this is all about. there are plenty of actresses out there that have this description and are also very talented actresses.
wai, Cleopatra was neither pretty nor curvy, history tells us that she was a homely looking woman and had a little meat on her. The reason that she is portrayed so beautiful in movies is that no one wants to believe that a homely woman could attract so many men, so many in fact that she brought to end her own kingdom.
That biotch who wrote that article of Essence.com is a racist and a moron.
Wow, CNN, you need to hire some new web designers. I forgot to type in full email, it errored, i went back and entered email then it rejected my comment as duplicate comment...Perhaps it should have only entered the comment into the db after if validated the fields? hmmmm?
Anyhow. What happened to her. She used to be really beautiful, now she is just sick looking. I think she would be great playing Cleopatra in "The Mummy IV, Cleopatra" She wouldn't need makeup to do the bones and skin scenes...
She's perfect. there is no evidence that Cleopatra was black. Jolie is as stunning as what I imagine Cleopatra was.
Wow, what happened to her? She used to look great...Now she looks sick. Perhaps if she stared as Cleopatra in a Mummy IV movie (you know, the skelly version) then I'd say go for it! Please eat some food!
Rosario Dawson. That is all I have to say.
She is way overexposed in hollywood already. no one will see her as a character such as Cleopatra, rather we will only see Angelina up there, that will ruin the film. Same goes for if Pitt is in it. They have both lost their luster and magic. We know too much about their real lives.
Angelina would be great as Cleopatra, particularly if she played it without any clothes. Nobody would care what color she was.
Angelina the Tomb Raider as Cleo is no more ridiculous than Colin as Alexander. Angelina played the mother in that movie & in Beowulf, so it's not like she doesn't have "historical" film experience. I haven't really liked her since Hackers.
Get Halle Berry, even better looking that Angelina.
Skip all the personal attacks on Angelina and consider the "Very Best" choice would be Halle Berry! There are so many actress skills and sensual qualities she has that are real; easily makes her the perfect fit for the role...
OK , what about Zoe Saldana? Ok she was technically Greek . The last time I checked Greeks GET brown , why cant we have a native grecian play the role? I think African Americans frustration is that women of color ANY color are not considered for the role.What about a Cambodian..they get brown too. The point is Yes Cleo was Greek (and maybe a little vindictive) living in Egypt ..She had to be Brown one way OR ANOTHER
Why can't Angelina play a Greek? This black racism has been a plague my whole life. I wish blacks could see other people as people and not let their lives be ruled by things that happened generations ago.
Many of the comments here are valid on all sides. The facts, though do remain the same. Cleopatra was of Greek descent and though I understand the frustration of those who would rather see a more-darkskinned (naturally) in this role, maybe this film is not so much the one to be so riled up about as Hollywood historically till this day casts in what can easily be construed as a racist mannor. That said I think that Angelina Jolie is a great actress and will not disappoint in this role.
She would make the perfect Cleopatra. And honestly, I don't remember her being black in any of my history books. She was always more of a tan color.
Angelina Jolie is not Egyptian, nor does she look Egyptian. She does not have the features of an Egyptian woman. This is just not a credible casting and should reflect so in box office receipts. I will definitely not waste my money on this shim-sham of a production.
Stacy Schiff is bent on having a white-skinned woman in this role not because it's the "perfect pick", but because she believes that the movie will make more money with a white woman playing Cleopatra, irrespective of the FACT that Cleopatra was an AFRICAN and a WOMAN OF COLOR. Maybe if Stacy writes a book on Harriet Tubman, she can cast Helen Mirren as Harriet Tubman, she would be the "perfect pick".
Underneath all of this is still racism and Schiff not wanting this movie to be labeled by white people as a "Black Movie". If there is a lead black (or non-white person of color) actor or actress in a movie white society always automatically refers to it as a Black Movie (or whatever ethnicity the person is), not just a movie.
Schiff should have at least cast an AFRICAN from EGYPT.
Put aside your anger and crack open a history book, Laila. Cleopatra was one in a long line of Ptolemaic rulers who ruled Egypt after Alexander the Great invaded. Cleopatra was not of African blood as some of the pharoahs possibly were previously. She was Egyptian-born but of Greek descent.
Why not. John Wayne played Genghis Khan once. Not very convincing, but he played the role. Just keep repeating,
"It's only a movie, It's only a movie".
Here is how I see it...if she was Greek then let a Greek play her...I just would like to see it played as true to form as possible. Yep...I'm African American and I love good well researched, and true to form movies. Get it right Hollywood!
Amen!
Angelina Jolia is the actress of "choice' for this role? Doesn't anyone remember her horrendous accent when she played Colin Farrell's mother in Alexander? YIKES! Give the role to someone who can act..........
Now this is a legitimate objection.
I agree with Jim. Angelia really sucked in that role. This is why I love Mel Gibson as a Director. He uses people who we never heard of to play roles and as you can see it did not hurt the boxd office. We need to see new blood. Please find a greek woman and give her a chance. I bet this will break the box office. You will notice that people will be sick and tired of the same old actors and they will demand new actors from there on. BRING IN NEW ACTORS!
If this is what it takes to get Fox to make a decent Blu-ray transfer (from 70mm source material) of the 1963 CLEOPATRA, I don't care if they cast Jackie Chan as the Oriental Queen of the Nile..
Funny. Everyone here is trying to play "history expert" yet none of you know what you're talking about.
This is like saying a Russian Czar should be played by a Chinese guy. Africa is a continent, not a country or culture, and certainly not exclusive to a given race.
Angelina Jolie = tramp, Cleopatra = tramp, same difference.
OMG–enough with the race-baiting BS, already! Cleopatra was of Greek descent. She was not black, just like many South Africans (that's a country on the continent of Africa, for those who don't know) are not black. If anything, Cleopatra was olive-skinned. So get the eff over it!
Idris Elba, an African American, is playing the Norse God Heimdall in the new film Thor. Heimdall was known to the Norse as the "whitest god", so you can see the irony there. Idris Elba insinuated that white people who were against him playing the whitest of white gods were racist. Meanwhile, a white person can't play Cleopatra who wasn't even black.
yes, her father is of greek/macedonian decent,, but cleopatra's mother has never been truly confirmed. as sited by the international scientific community, cleopatra is more-likely-than-not a bi-racial woman! bi-racial women come in many hues from the lightest of light to the darkest of dark. i'm just tired of seeing angelina jolie portray women of color. this would not be the first time and i'm sure that there are a number of actresses who could deliver a more amazing performance as cleopatra. and no, i do not mean halle berry!!!
yes you are right that her mother is up for dispute, however if she was born the daughter of a concubine and of mixed race she would not have been permitted to become queen. Her first two husbands were her brothers and this also would not have been permitted had she not had a pure bloodline.
Cleopatra was GREEK!!! NOT Egyptian. Essence, you're a bunch of idiots. Do some research first.
This is how you shoot the nose off the Sphinx in 2010.
For years the whites have stolen arts and treasure from Egypt. Now with their stolen knowledge the whites want to claim the history of the Egyptians as their own.
Egyptian archeologists help other archaeologists from around the world excavate in Egypt, so blame the Egyptians. I went to school with two Egyptians, Cleo and Sylvana. Both WHITE. George Noory, an American radio broadcaster of Egyptian descent. WHITE. Blacks have become the most racist people on the planet, and all the rest of us–olive, white, yellow, red–are sick of it!
Cleopatra was a macedonian white woman. Get over it.
It depends on what history book you are reading. If you read a white history book, she was white. If you read a black history book, she was black. If you read an Egyptian history book, she was an Egyptian. If you read a Greek history book she was Greek. . . and so on and on and on. Who cares!
How important is this...I mean really? Would that there was this much dialogue into how to plug the oil spill.
Cleopatra was GREEK, not Egyptian. She was the granddaughter of Ptolemy, Alexander the Great's general. For really bad casting, try wild-eyed scrawny Colin Farrel as Alexander the Great.
Sam Jackson played "Nick Fury" who is drawn as "white" in ironman.
Let it go...
When you stop worrying about "color" your issues will go away.
Go right ahead and cast Jolie as Cleopatra. You are making the film – you are funding the film, you absolutely have that right. I will exercise the one absolute right that I possess. The right to keep my money in my wallet.
Cleopatra's ancestral lineage was out of Ptolemy. She was a Hellenistic Greek by lineage. That lineage was maintained when she married her brothers. Mark Atoney was a Roman. She would not have been a "nubian" (the term used by the Hellenistic culture of the time. It's not a "racist" comment.) She would have been Olive skinned at the darkest. More likely she was "white". Sorry to bust anyone's bubble but thems the facts.
Why all the BS about Cleopatra being played by a white woman? I think there should be concern for Angelina with any role thrown at her. She is a terrible actress. Anything I have seen her in was crap. Any movie she will make cast as Cleopatra will be crap. She is so bad, I will not watch anything she is in. Completely unwatchable.
Cleopatra was Greek!! Read a book people!
I for one will NOT be watching this movie. Not because of the color of the skin of the person, but because I don't care for Angelina Jolie, I do NOT think she is a wonderful actress. She is a wonderful humanitarian, but that is it.
its a great day for white folks of all races
EGYPTIANS WEREN'T BLACK, YOU MAGAZINE IDIOTS! You have some now because of a greater movement of peoples in the last century, but Egyptians of the Pharaohs' era were of middle eastern descent!!! You antagonizers believe there could only be one race in Africa. Sorry to break it to you, but there were MORE! Long before Cleopatra there were also Greeks in Africa. North Africa was NOT YOUR HOMELAND! That was West, Central and South Africa, NOT NORTH. North Africa was part of the Mediterranean world and was inhabited by such people. GET OVER YOURSELVES!!!
We already know she doesn't mind stealing someone's husband. She's perfect.
Well looking back at a lot of warmer climates with people ranging in skin color from very light to very dark. It would be assumed that be it that Cleopatra were of Macedonian decent and her mother is actually unknown but assumed to be Egyptian. Which would mean that she would be mixed with very light skin and a what now would be Arab colored skin. Which ranges from light to dark? What causes this? Usually people who are very wealthy don't have to work outside and don't have much exposure to the sun as the poorer people who work all day in the sweltering sun and heat. Be it that Cleopatra was of a wealth family, herself being a Pharoah. I'm sure that she was probably very light skinned. This country is very caught up on race. Ben Kingsley by the way is half Indian and a damn fine actor. He did a remarkable job playing Ghandi. The real outrage here shouldn't be that Jolie is too white to play this character. It should be that she's not good enough of an actress to play such a remarkable historical figure. It's insulting to women that one of historys most reveared female leaders is only acknowledged for her beauty. That is the only reason they're picking Jolie is because of her striking good looks. I wish they would have an actress with some real talent give this incredible figure in history some justice. Hollywood is a joke.
Cleopatra was a member of the Ptolemy dynasty who were Greek speaking because they came from Macedonia. They were definitely not people of color in the sense that it is being refered to here. In this case Angelina Jolie would actually be a perfect choice.
Cleopatra was not BLACK! Some "people" need a better education in history. She had light skin color and was beloved by many people in Edgypt for that reason. It has been written, that she even tried to enhance her skin to be even lighter for the reason that light skin in that part of the world was rare and desired by both women and men.
If you anyone noticed Egypt is in Africa a land that originally was inhabited by people of a darker hue, it wasn't until the mixing and conquering by the Arabian peninsula that Musilums of a lighter hue took over. They forced many of the Egyptians to convert to Islam or die. Also the original name for Egypt is Kemet, the Western world changed the name.
Cleopatra was a great grand daughter of Ptolemy who was Greek, and one of Alexander the Great's generals. When Alexander the Great died, his empire split into different large territories, with each of his generals as the ruler of those territories. Ptolemy, was one of his generals, who took over Egypt and surrounding areas. People of Greek decent all ran Ptolemy's court, and that was the ruling class. Much like how South Africa used to be ran by people of European decent. The Greeks only wed each other, and didn't mingle with the indigenous peoples, therefore Cleopatra would have been white.
That's your history lesson for today. Sheba would have been black though, and she needs a movie about her.
I think they should get "Precious" AKA Gabby Sidibe.
Cleopatra was Macedonian GREEK ppl, a direct line desendant of Alexander the Great, therefor WHITE SKINNED, BLUE EYED AND BLOND HAIRED! She was noted in ancient writings that she often wore black wigs to appear closer to the native Egyptian people. What morons to think Cleo should be played by a woman of color.
Cleopatra was NOT a direct decedent of Alexander the Great, Cleopatra's father Auletes was a direct descendant of Alexander the Great's general, Ptolemy I not Alexander himself. However the remainder of your statement is historically correct.
I am fine with her playing the part as long as Angela Bassett can play Queen Victoria or Martha Washington!Yeah right!
I for one can't wait to see Angelina Jolie in makeup playing an Egyption Queen....YUMMY....
I do not think Miss Jolie should play the part...there must be better actresses that could be considered.
Cleopatra was Greek.. and most likely from Macedonia since she came from the Ptolemy line of rulers. he was a General serving under Alexander the Great. Coming from Macedonia she could have been white as snow. Give it up people. I think Angelina would make a great Cleo.
Cleopatra was black. Her father was Greek Macedonian general, Ptolemy, but her mother was black. She was a black woman, and the role should be played by a black woman.
Hey! Jennifer Aniston is of Greek descent and would be appropriate for the role. I'd much rather look at her on screen than Jolie.
Umm. Cleopatra was a GREEK woman who was queen/pharaoh of Egypt when is was under Greek rule. She was most definitely NOT black, or even "bronze" as an Egyptian might be.
Wow... just wow.
Peronally I don't care what her color she was or her nationally. The history books say Greek . Angelia Jolie should not even be considered for the role. There are many more actrees that are fare more beautiful, that could do a better job. No one will ever compare to Elizabeth and Richard!
I vote for Jessica Alba. Being of Hispanic background, she has the olive skin that would be more natural for that role, and her beauty is more natural (less "bolt on") than Angelina's.
Get me a Polaroid of Cleo and I will answer your question. Unless you own stock in the film company then the photo does not matter. Tell you what. Let's make it even. Oprah can play Eleanor Roosevelt when they remake "Sunrise at Campabello."
RuPaul
How about going to Egypt and discovering the talent over there. I am a huge fan of Angelina Jolie but for this, lets try getting an unknown actress...just a thought
I personally do not think Angelina will make a great Cleopatra, simply because she is not a good actress, which is why I do not go to any of her movies. And, therefore, will not be going to this new movie.
God what is wrong with people? Has anyone been to North Africa????!!! They are not black but all shades of brown. There was also a lot of intermingling of races back then so I doubt Cleopatra looked like Oprah Winfrey! Angelina Jolie fits that very exotic, mysterious personality to perfection. If people want to be really political correct why not have Whoopi Goldberg! Come on people get a life......
All this hooplah about nothing. If they want to ignore the fact that there have been roles of whites played by black actors and raise hypocritical flags on this, I say have fun – while pointing at Morgan Freeman's excellent job in Shawshank Redemption playing Red, who was, if you've read the story, a redheaded white man. God bless hypocrisy.
Cleopatra was Greek.
Cleopatra was part Greek, her name is of Greek origin, she prided herself on being related to Alexander the Great (also Greek from Macedonia), & coins from her era have been found with her image on it looking quite Greek. History should not be distorted just to make a movie succesful.
all who are complaining are morons. its just a movie. also, ben kingsley's dad was Indian you dumb a@$ robert
People get a life.
Who GAF!!! She's Hot!!
Cleo VII was from a Macedonian family. But I see no reason a black actress couldn't play Cleo if she's got Cleo's mix of brains, ability, and charm. I rather would like to see all actors taking on all roles...Why can't Morgan Freeman play Abe Lincoln or Robert E. Lee if he does the role well? Though not Brad Pitt as Martin Luther King, please. The real question is, is Ms. Jolie good enough to play Cleo well. Lindsay Duncan(? I think the name was) was a great Cleo in "Rome" and I'd like to see an actress who can do at least as well.
I have an idea, let's eliminate all the problems and have the role played by a man. How about Lenny Kravitz, his father was Jewish and his mother black. That will solve everything.
Note that Gandhi was played by an actor of Indian and British blood. Ben Kingsley was born Krishna Pandit Bhanji.
I don't think the nay-sayers in this article realize it would be historically inaccurate for Cleo to be black. plain and simple.
AND if it has not been mentioned, the people generally who live in Greece today are not the people who lived in Greece at that time. It has been explained in a earlier post that they were Aryan/Hebrew types or Caucasians who migrated over the Caucasus mountains and/or hebrew/phonecian who settled along the shores of the Med.
Who of course settled the Iberian peninsula and Hibernia which is Ireland and Britain the Gaels. Not to mention those tribes who migrated overland and became known as the Anglo-Saxons where our English came from (angleish), the Franks, Saxons (Isaccs's sons) Jutes Goths Normans, Vikings etc.
History is so colorful if only it was taught.
People, you should calm down.
In order to bring peace to this discussion and be fair to all ethnicities that might feel offended by Jolie's choice, the producers decided to give Cesar and Marc-Anthony roles to african american actors Will Smith and Denzel Washington.
If this discussion was about a black actress who should not be playing a part, it would be called "racist."
Anyone who knows history will think Jolie will be a perfect choice for this role. Stop making so much about color and focus on quality.
Halle Berry – covers all complexion questions. And she plays "intelligent" excellently. jmo
Halle Berry is not a great actress, she just got lucky picking a roll that got the viewers' stomachs twisted in a knot. I call that great screenplay writing. And if you're going by historical reference Halle would still be WRONG for the part because she's black and Cleopatra was not.
You know who I'd pay money to see in the role? Tori Spelling!
🙂
she would turn over in her grave. This women IS NOT PRETTY!
OMG, why are people so into this story? No wonder our country keep going backwards. We invest most of our quality time in nonsense like this. WHO CARES???? WHY ARE PEOPLE SO ANGRY???? Most of the angry comments are uncalled for, its Hollywood and all that matters to them is money. So move on and let them have a go at it. Its your money they look forward to at the end of the day. So if you don't like the idea, just don't go see it when it comes out. Keep your dollars. Hope we all have a great weekend. Life is too short to waste on issues like this.
Roberto – you are incorrect about Slavs and slavery under the Romans. Anyone, any ethnic/racial/religious background were slaves, it had nothing to do with who they were. In any case the Slavs did not enter European history until the early 6th century when they were under the power of the Avars, a Turkic empire who fought against the Eastern Roman Empire. Actually many slaves were from all over the polyglot empire, and many of them reached very high rank, especially the Greeks who as literate, intelligent talented administrators and business men worked for the Emperor and his officials, or managed the business of their masters.
Hasn't america had "enough" of Angelina?? It's really time to move on. This movie requires an olive skinned, semitic woman to play this role. Pahhease!!!
People sure don't know their history. While Cleopatra was an Egyptian queen, she was actually full-blooded Greek. Hardly a woman of color.
Its ALWAYS about color with the "people of color". PLEASE....get over yourselves.
Come on we let that loser Colin Farrel play Alexander the Great.
The real Cleopatra was Macedonian. Would we also like to see Alexander the Great played by a black man?
Please let caucasoid (whites) have Cleopatra, for now
"History as we know it was written by caucasoid people for caucasoid people only and they believe the lies handed down to them." They won the wars and their pens wrote the history that strecthes form Oxford to Cambridge to Harvard to Yale in the books they hold as truths. And these lies are engrained as the preminent truth and have been for hundreds of years. Caucasoid people depised black Africans since ancient times, so why would the Romans and Greeks attribute anything of note to them. Maybe now with DNA and genomes truths will emerge, but it will take a long time for whites to fully accept that their ancestor cheated history with the pen and claimed credit for things that they did not achieve and people who they were not. Books are powerful tools with content that few endeavor to dispute, "Cortez, COLUMBUS, ALEXANDER the great and NAPOLEON–thumbs down."
Don't these idiots know, that she was Greek, and was probably a blonde? I'm all for black power, and blacks feeling good about about themselves, but lets not rewriter history, ok?
To those of you who continuously use phrases like "black people need to stop..." or "blacks are trying to...." have basically decided that because a few Black people don't like a film then all black people feel this way. This may come as a surprise to you but I am Black and I love Angelina Jolie. I think she'll do a great job. I want to leave this little list for those of you who believe all blacks share one common opinion.
1) Not all black people support or even like Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson
2) Not all black people think OJ Simpson was innocent
3) Not all black people sit around blaming White people for the ills of the world.
4) Most importantly: Not all black people like rap music!
If you actually took the time to get to know a black person as an individual(instead of relying on music videos to educate you), then you may find out you have a lot more in common than you think.
The African-American folks who are making so much noise about Cleopatra's skin color and race, would do well to read history. Cleopatra was a GREEk-MACEDONIAN!!! She WAS NOT A BLACK AFRICAN!!!!! Nor was she an ARAB!!! Her father was a general in Alexander the Great's army; and he marrried a Greek Macedonian woman, Cleo's mother. The coins thfrom that period that depict her profile confirm this.
Yes, Jolie would be perfiect! Do you remember she played the murdered journalist Pearl's wife? She painted her skin and had a small Afro. Pearl's wife is French/Afro-Cuban. I read no comments from Blacks regarding this role.
The sad fact is it doesn't matter what Cleopatra truly looked like, who her parents were, or what country she originally came from. Hollywood producers only see one color GREEN. They know people will flock to the theater to see Jolie. Case Closed. No one producing this film cares one iota of being historically correct. They ONLY care about filling theater seats and Jolie is sure to deliver.
I think that some black people think that just because she was born in Egypt she was black no she was not black she is believed to be of Macedonian decent and they are not black even though Egyptians of that time were.
Oh what the hell, give the role to Oprah. Who gives a damn, as long as the story is correct. Let's hear the truth for a change. Why does everything have to become a racial issue when someone considers a white person for a lead role. If Oprah plays the lead, I know that I will not go see the film.
Unfortunately for the imbecils at this site, who proclaim with no doubt that Cleopatra was not African know nothing about her mother. Therefore how such a claim can be made is ignorant. IBut thats right Anwar Sadat was not African because his mother was Turkish!
I heard Cleopatra was greek. That she should be portrayed by an "actress of color"–meaning black–is racist. Face the fact that white is a color too.
i think Angelina Jolie is perfect for cleopatra. and brad pitt as marc antony, why not? seems interesting. i say angelina jolie IS CLEOPATRA.
Those claiming Cleopatra must have been half Black because her sister was are actually displaying their own ignorance. There is no actual proof that the skeleton from the Ephesus is tomb is in fact Arsinoe IV and even if it was, it is well known that Arsinoe was Cleopatra's half sister.
This is absurd! Cleopatra was niether northern European nor Sub-Saharan African. She was semetic with varying phenotype. Unfortunately Hollywood continues to portray Northern Africans, in particular Egyptians as Northern Europeans with english accents. Halle Berry would be a perfect fit. Hey maybe someting more novel find an Egyptian actress. But please no more face painted Othellos!!!!
And Essence; you should be glad she's not African; what a horrid woman! There's already enough negative thoughts and portrayals out there about African Americans in society we fight each day. Shhh!!! Why would you claim her of all people? Someone needs to do a movie on Lena Horne; now that would be positive and there are plenty of great Afican American actresses who would do a good job portraying her and her accomplishments. Essence don't waste your time. Move on to more positive role models; save face on this one.
Wow, this is so dumb. For one she wasn't black, but that doesn't matter. You could have a woman of asian decent play her for all I care. The reason they picked a white women is probably because the majority of people who are likely to see this movie are more comfortable with a white cleopatra. Just like most people are more comfortable with the image of a white Jesus. When in reality, if you saw jesus today on your 747 from NYC to LA you would be watching him like a hawk. The man was arab, I'm white and I'll admit that with no issue. Who cares!!! Honestly, it seems like "culture" in modern days does nothing but breed hate in people. I prefer to default to our lowest common denominator, that is that we're all human. People invest too much into color and culture. It's great you know where you came from, but where are you going? Becasue distinction breeds jealousy, and jealousy breeds hate, and hate breeds genocide. We've all seen that doesn't work, so everybody just give it a rest and admit that these differences we create between each other really don't matter in any useful scope of reality.
I beleive she was of macedonian decent as the ptolemy took power in egypt after alexander the great died, so angelina jolie would make sense exept i dont care for her as a actress, so african americans should get mad at something that matters instead whose playing cleopatra who was of macedonian decent, last time I checked macedonian people are white, not that it matters or anything
I want to pay to see Angelina play Cleopatra. Not Queen Latifah or Whoopee Glodberg. Please. Keep box office sales in mind when making inaccurate allegations about enthnicity. Looks sell box office receipts, not appeasement casting.
i think Angie she would make a great Cleopatra. Liz Taylor did a great job, and she's white. They could use Lena Horne's left over make up. Oh, she has a black kid too, does that help.
Please, please, please, ANYBODY but *Brangelina*!!!! Those two have become even more nauseating than *Bennifer" or "TomKat* ... They've had more than their fair share of fame, money and tabloid magazine coverage over the years. Enough with the "Hollywood royalty", already!!! How about some new blood for a change?
Well after looking at some facts online she seems to be of European Decent, unless her mom slept with someone of African decent.
Cleopatra was no beauty queen. She had a huge shnozola, crossed eyes, and a mustache. In spite of all that, she was a carpenters dream: flat as a board and easy to nail.
Why would ANYONE want to lay claim to such a horrid woman who murdered?
She ALREADY PLAYED A BLACK WOMEN, DANIEL PEARL'S WIFE. Look it up. True, Egyptians come in many colors and that is why it is time for a women of color, not necessary a black woman, (even though that would be fitting) but someone who other can relate. Africa has less than 2% of the population of whites. Her mother was an AFRICAN of Color: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/also_in_the_news/7945333.stm
DO NOT GET MAD WHEN BEYONCE PLAYS WONDER WOMEN – I am so sure we will here it then
Lets take it a step further... if they do the film, there should be a law making them film it in its orginallanguage... make it illegal to film cleopatra in english..... also many of the egytians were smaller in stature than people today so tall actrices should not be allowed to play cleopatra.
Definitely not A.J. her rep is scarred from over use of tabloids. her botox and age is crashing together, getting uglier with age. She has pale white skin, and is a FAR CRY from Egyptian. Yet she looks more Egyptian than a black woman would, sigh, what is up with this race card. Wet her lips and stick her on the window.
Excuse me, but the last time i checked Egypt was in Africa, WOW, GET A MAP!
I am a huge fan of hers, but honestly i don't think she should play the role because of this, i agree, it should be someone of African decent.
Back when Liz Taylor played it, it was just because of the time, and that people were so ill informed about everything. To have this in today's society where everyone has information at the tip of their fingers and are a lot wiser than back then would be a total slap in the face to have her play this role, and i do think it would be a flop because of this fact.
The more i read; my goodness; why would anyone want to lay claim to Cleo; that's black, white, greek or whatever. That women was horrible. So, people what are you really trying to say about your race? Get a life; Cleo's life is over!!!!!!
I personally don't care about the color of skin of who is playing Cleopatra;I just wouldn't go see
any movie starring Angelina Jolie.
Thank you IACTUALLYREAD. It took some time, but I finally found a post (yours) that was based on intellect versus personal racist views based on the demographics of today. Although I'm not sure what the past Egyptians looked like, I'm sure it wasn't like they look today. Our history books have so many people left out of them, and so many others modified to the writers liking, (I.E. Columbus) they can hardly be called true history books. The only true history books that actually are all inclusive, can only be found at the collegiate level, which most on this blog, after reading their entries, have not read. I think if they want a true depiction of Cleopatra, Angelina is not the right choice.
It's not a debate as to whether or not Cleopatra is African... I believe people are missing the point that Cleopatra's lineage was constantly in question because of the racial ambiguity of her grandparents. It is said that many servants and concubines were in Egypt working and Cleopatra's grandmother was an outsider from Nubia, who was involved with Cleopatra's grandfather and bore Cleopatra's father/uncle and sister/aunt.
They couldn't have made a better choice. Angelina Jolie is perfect for the role of Cleopatra!!
Its been said a few times above, but I will repeat it in case anyone missed it: CLEOPATRA WAS A PTOLMAIC GREEK. THAT MEANS SHE WASN'T BLACK. NEITHER WERE THE EGYPTIANS, THEY WERE SEMITIC. They did keep Nubian slaves who were black mind you. I hate people who seem intent on rewriting history, in this case the attempts to convince people that because Egypt is in Africa, its inhabitants were black. Revisionism doesn't make things true, no matter how much people want to make something true.
I don't care what the color of the skin. I just care about one's acting ability. And she is a fantastic actress in my opinion.
If Christians can turn Jesus into a tall white blue eyed blond roaming the desert 2000 years ago. Then why can't Hollywood turn the Queen of Egypt into a grossly underfed overpaid A list soon to be over the hill white actress.
CHECK IT OUT BROTHERS AND SISTERS: CLEOPATRA WAS A GREEK PRINCESS DESCENDED FROM PTOLEMY (ONE OF ALEXANDER THE GREAT'S GENERALS) AND FROM MITHRIDATES THE GREAT OF PONTUS (BY THE BLACK SEA). SHE WAS CAUCASIAN WITH DARK HAIR AND EYES MOST LIKELY.
THE EGYPTIAN PEOPLE WHOM SHE RULED (OUTSIDE OF ALEXANDRIA) WERE A MIXED RACE OF DARKSKINNED PEOPLE (HAMITO-SEMITIC) WHO HAD BOTH BLACK AFRICAN AND MEDITERANIAN WHITE HERITAGE. THIS WAS THE RESULT OF THOUSANDS OF YEARS OF INTERMIXING AND CONQUEST.
TODAY'S AFRICAN AMERICANS ARE ALSO A MIXED RACE BY CONQUEST AND ENSLAVEMENT. THEIR HERITAGE WAS STOLEN FROM THEM AND THEIR CULTURE ERASED FROM THEIR CONSCIOUSNESS, REPLACED BY THE CULTURE , LANGUAGE, AND RELIGION OF THEIR MASTERS. IT IS NATURAL FOR THEM TO WANT TO CLAIM SOMEONE LIKE CLEOPATRA AND THE CULTURE OF EGYPT. BUT THE TRUTH IS FAR MORE COMPLEX. ONE MUST LEARN BEFORE MAKING SUCH CLAIMS OR ELSE RUN THE RISK OF LOOKING FOOLISH. IN ANCIENT TIMES, THE LINES OF RACE WERE SOMETIMES MUCH MORE BLURRED. THE LATER EUROPEAN JUDEO-CHRISTIAN MINDSET HAD NOT YET BEEN ESTABLISHED, AND MANY CULTURES AND RELIGIONS EXISTED SIMULTANEOUSLY.
IF WE VIEW THESE ANCIENT CULTURES AND PEOPLES THROUGH OUR PRESENT DAY PREJUDICES AND SOCIAL -POLITICAL PERSPECTIVES, WE DO OURSELVES A DISSERVICE BECAUSE WE DENY THEIR TRUE REALITY. IF WE TRY TO LEARN THE TRUTH ABOUT THEM, IT MIGHT JUST HELP US UNDERSTAND OUR OWN CULTURE AND ROOTS, AND THE TRUE HUMANITY (GOOD AND BAD) THAT UNITES US ALL. BECAUSE WHAT HAPPENED BACK THEN STILL AFFECTS US TODAY.
THE PROBLEM WTIH HOLLYWOOD IS THAT THEY SELDOM GET IT RIGHT (WITNESS THE TERRIBLE "ALEXANDER" MOVIE WHICH STARRED ANGELINA JOLIE). SO DO NOT EXPECT MUCH FROM THEM.
At this time in our lives, we need to focus on more important issues than color or heritage. Lets just make the movie, buy a damn ticket and help the economy.
If you really want to be a stickler for matching the actor's ethnicity then Selma Hayak would have been a good choice!
Hey!!! What ever happened to the fact she can't act!!! If I was in casting, I think I would need to get my head examined!!!
Jesus was a handsome, proud black man.
A.Jolie just can't act. I don't care what she looks like but she's a terrible actress who is only prominent because of the way she looks. Only movie she ever did well was Gia. But she's a wonderful humanitarian.
See the black people play the race card all the time.. Sorry to say it but it is the truth, people with colored skin and some not had a hard HISTORY! Stop trying to milk it for all it is worth! I wish i could have a card! You know back in the day blacks were treated better then indians so hmm yeah... Who sold blacks first?? HMMM BLACKS!! People under the skin we are the same please can we just act like it for once!!
Monica Bellucci would be better 🙂
Of course Cleopatra was Macedonian and not Egyptian, so Jolie could play the part.
Personally I would like to see a fresher face. I thought Angelina Jolie was hot in the 90s, someone younger and fresher could really play this role. There are plenty of beautiful and talented unknowns.
Stop whining, does EVERY FRIGGING REMADE
movie need to made "black" the 2nd time.
You got the Karate Kid this month, that was bad enough.
There's plenty of top black performers now, this isn't like the old days when they were just playing Aunt Jemima and plantation worker or pimp.
Every kids movie that comes out now has a "black" voice as well. It's actually over done to a fault it's so out of control.
Was someone asleep for history or for world geography?? Go to college to wrint in the papers thousands of dollars out the window to say, Cleopatra was an African Queen! Oh sure because Rome is so close to Africa! Want to talk about roles that do not fit, Will Smith as Jim West in Wild Wild West we all know that role is for DUH a white guy but guess what he did great in the MOVIE! It makes no sence but it is just a MOVIE! NOTICE the word MOVIE! Please people come on there are bigger things out there to bi**h about ! If you want a job to just complain I bet you would go to the top of the company ASAP! This is why people are losing faith in human kind we are just getting dumber and dumber all the time!
Cleopatra was no beauty...http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe/02/14/cleopatra.coin/
Cleopatra was Greek. The Greek people during her time were light skinned and many had blue or green eyes. Some of the Greek people are olive skinned and browned eyed today due to the invasion of the Turks. Angelina Jolie would be ideal for the role.
A lot of black people don't get their educations from schools and universities. They get it from morons who claim that Jesus was black (not Jewish) and that Egyptians were black as well! And then they say they want a color-blind society and then complain when an black actress isn't cast to match their crazy notions!
Here's a clue, fool! Stay in school! Or I pity the fool (who falls for the idiotic stuff that comes out of these African revisionists)!
Seriously, Jesus doesn't have to be black and you don't have to have built the pyramids to respect yourself and your fellow blacks. Be proud of yourself and make your own history.
This is very funny....you guys talk about your history and you argue about the ethnicity and color of Cleopatra....but who wrote your history??? Was it a black person writing about Africa his homeland or was it a White visitor writing about what he thought Africa is/was???? I find it very amusing that someone thinks that the pyramids were built by white people.....I bet you also think the concept of numbers and mathematics came with white people...
Check your history people. Cleopatra was a direct descendent on one of Alexander the Greats Macedonian generals, Ptolemy. Egyptians today are not black (in US terms) or white – they are Egyptian. The cry for a black Cleopatra is based in a post-modern pan-Africanist philosophy that is just as racist as that of the KKK or the NSDAP.
CLEOPATRA WAS GREEK!!!!!!!! She was not Arab, she was not black. Whe was a direct decendant of one of Alexandrer's generals. People, get your facts straight!!!!
i say we just throw everything out the window and cast an ASIAN MALE for this role. how about rain? he kicked butt in ninja assassin.
The details of the words and specifics is upsetting in this forum. That people are bickering over what this and that exact thing of history, being racist or more racist of that comment is so lame. The bottom line is: Will and can the people buying the tickets for this movie identify with Angie Jolie, phhhsttt, probably not. She is a lame glossy magazine cover and not a reflection of any woman period. All black woman and any woman of color, actually ALL woman should be offended that this so-called actress is even being considered for this role. I believe that the general audience is smarter than to be suckered by flash and whistles of the Hollywood meat grinder. I do believe we do live in a time that a white audience can identify with a black actress. Yes, there are more out there, not just Haile Berry. Black folk should get mad that one of the distant characters that we have no real connection to somehow made its way to our culture and inspired us. (black power movement, right on) Made black woman self esteem stronger whether the details of Cleopatras ethnic background was black or white. It made black folk coming out of segregation, say we are not just a group of people with just slavery in our past, but we were kings and queens, raise your head up and be proud. White folk, take note, this something that alot of you don't understand, its hard, but take second and think, ahem, "Jesus". But c'mon when we saw Iman portray a egyptian queen in Michael Jacksons video "Remember the time" that was it. If she could act, that would be my vote!
The question is – to a woman of what color?
Who cares? It wil probably be an expensive flop anyway. Maybe La Jolie should do Shakespeare in the Park next year instead.
To those who say she was black, why don't you do some true readings about the history in that area before you post your comments. This is not about equality....this is history.
Jolie is just wrong for the part, and it doesn't have to do with her race. She just looks too modern-age (tall, muscular body, and too much northern European blood in those features. I can better imagine Halle Barre in the part. Or here's what might seem an odd idea: Sandra Bullock. Think of her look for the Academy Awards. Her body is right, and her features are such that she could be of many genetic backgrounds. She'd have to work on that flat accent, though.
As much as I may like Angelina and the fact that she may have the perfect physical features to play Cleopatra, it must be understood that Cleopatra was black. It doesn't matter that you get different races in Egypt now, the actual queen was black. It may look good casting someone like Angelina (personally I think Leonor Varela was the best looking actress that played Cleopatra), but if they want to make it more realistic, can't they cast someone like Halle Berry? Shes gorgeous, has the body, and could do a brilliant job!
Aradhna, Cleopatra was NOT black. Holy cow how ignorant are people? There is absolutely no credible evidence to support any mixed ethnicity of Cleopatra. This bogus mixed ethnicity claim is a modern invention. Ancient sources and evidence do not support any such claim. Cleopatra's grandmothers and her mother are both known. They both belonged to the Ptolemaic bloodline. They were not black African nor Egyptian given the xenophobic tendencies of the Ptolemies who inbred to preserve their royal Greek-Macedonian bloodline, they surrounded themselves with Greek royals, upper class and ruling elite. The Ptolemies sometimes inter-married with other Greek-Macedonian Dynasties but tended to prefer to inbred among each other. It is sometimes unclear which child was born from which wife, but the wives were all of the Greek-Macedonian lineage. Their numbers after their names might not be certain but their genealogy is not in question, what we are certain of is the fact that they were all Ptolemaic princesses or queens.
To all the people who are offended or irritated with "Black" folk that are offended by this actress portraying Cleopatra. Take a step back and realize the issue is not the specific ethnic background. It is the fact of how "blacks" have had to re-invent their history and we know this, let alone the social and psychological issues. And Cleopatra's story is something that African-Americans and specifically woman have "identified" with, whether she was greek, white, italian or whatever. Forget the specifics of the color, it was a woman that was powerful in Africa, that alone can boost ones self confidence, ahem, especially if anyone was aware of the history and the present. Just like the whole "jesus' being argument, white folk want to worship someone that they an identify with. Whats wrong with an "African American" actress portraying this role which with the "history" of america and the individual actress, it would be epic. Let alone the challenge of inspiring not only black girls but all your woman in the world. Since this an American Movie an African American woman would have a bigger challenge and the test of the heart. Angie is pretty but she's got no heart. Overall, this movie would be epic and i'd rather see someone put their soul on film than someone who has white guilt and insecurities of being such a bad actress that need to put millions of glitz and glam to cover up bad acting. Let a Black Woman take this role I'm sure white america can handle it and i believe Liz Taylor would be happy.
Cleopatra was Greek. She was a Ptolemy, the Hellenistic family which ruled Egypt after Alexander the Great conquered it. Casting an African woman wouldn't make any sense.
The reason why Cleopatra's race is unknown is because it is believed that her mother was a concubine; thus making Cleopatra of mixed race. True, Cleopatra primarily descends from Greece; however. given that her color and race were truly unknown and the argument could go both ways – why not have a woman of color play her?? Why just go one way? Hollywood wouldn't be wrong in casting a white woman but since that has been done SO many times maybe they should consider actresses who have some natural color to them. And having Brad Pitt play Marc Anthony would NOT be a good choice. Neither Pitt nor Jolie do period pieces very well. If the casting continues this way, they might as well have Michael Bay direct it!!!
Ann, Cleopatra's mom is known, its only in modern times that it has become 'unknown' to certain people for their own politically motivated agendas. Her mother was white and of the Ptolemaic bloodline. We have descriptions and depictions of how Cleopatra looked and what her race was: white European. The ancient poet Horace (65-8 B.C.) wrote that Cleopatra was as white as alabaster and another ancient writer Lucan wrote of “Cleopatra's white breasts were revealed by the fabric of Sidon... close-woven by the shuttle of the Seres.” So many ancient sources that talk about Cleopatra being white.
Sorry... I meant to say: Cleopatra's GRANDMOTHER is said to have been a concubine from Nubia.
Who Cares
Mark Anthony was Roman, Romans did not fall in-love with blacks, they enslave them. Sad but true.
How silly. Egyptians were not black.
Yall R ignant
Cleopatra is a negative and matured role. Thandie Newton, Angelina Jolie or Zoe Zaldana would be perfect.
...another Angelina movie I will pass on...she looks good but is NOT a good actress!!!
White people don't know their history but are quick to tell you the history of others. For those of you whose head wont't explode to know the truth, read National Geographic Feb. 2008, 'The Black Pharaohs;Conquerors of Ancient Egypt." Statues of Nubian kings 10 feet high were found buried at the Nubian capital of Kerma. King Taharqa was black. Nubia where all the blacks lived was the source of all the gold. But I know--Nubia was really France......You people are so delusional but it's ok. Your fading to brown as we speak...
give me a break...read a history book sometime...cleopatra was greek/macedonian...she's beautiful, talented and i think perfect for the role...and just like elizabeth taylor, who by the way the film was "taylor" made for her, i think Jolie, will be awesome, if they make the film for her...perfect vehicle.
Since Cleo was a Macedonian Greek, she was not black. But I guess most blacks will continue to stick their fingers in their ears and sing "I can't hear you!"
egyptians arose from Mesopotamia which is modern-day Iraq.
I propose Nikki Haley (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikki_Haley) should be given the part.
Then she could follow the footsteps of other Republican actors who had become Governors of the state of CA, where as on her part – the Governor of SC. Hey, then, she could even become the next Republican President.
There is no proof that I can see that she was either black or white, black people don't need to claim Cleo as a representative, there are many highly respected educated strong individuals in their culture, Whites can't really claim her either; Roman society in ancient times was multicultural and with migration being what it was in ancient times the individuals that occupy the land today may not be the same individuals that occupied the land in ancient times, in the end what does it matter really?
She is odd, weird, not really pretty, and just plain strange. If Cleopatra had tattoos and hung a necklace with a vial of her lover's blood around her neck, perhaps Angelina would be perfect for the role.
I vote for Scarlett Johansson.
For the love of God, Cleopatra was of the Ptolemy dynasty. Ptolemy was one of the generals of Alexander the Great, and he was Greek. More specifically, a Greek from Macedonia. And the Greek rulers of the Hellenistic Age did not mix with the natives. So Cleopatra was of the Greek Macedonian race. Not of African descent, not even an Egyptian. So Angelina, who also played the mother of Alexander in Stone's movie, can go ahead and play the part. However, Cleopatra was not THAT perfect.
But I thought she looked entirely inappropriate as Alexander's mama, too.
Halle Berry
Cleaoptra was Greek by ancestry so what is the big deal about having a white woman portray her?
Actually, it doesn't at all surprise me that there are people upset that a woman of black African descent isn't portraying Cleopatra. Historical ignorance is endemic to our culture. Assuming that, because Egypt is located on the African continent, is all some people need to presume Cleopatra must have been black is quite the commentary all by itself. Sad is all it is, just sad. It would be an indictment of the school system if those people had ever gone to school.
Surely enough is known about the probable racial characteristics to get a credible Cleopatra. That being said I can't imagine Angelina Jolie being cast in this role no matter WHAT color Cleopatra really was. I have never seen her to put on a credible performance – she totally lacks personality – and I personally find her artificial and ugly. Throw Brad in as Mark Anthony and you might be able to make it into a Grade B comedy though.
Cleopatra was the daughter of a Greek senator, greece was founded by whites from the danube region not by the ethnic groups in greece TODAY.
there is nothing racist in historical accuracy,blacks demanding that all of egyptian history be re-written is in fact extremely racist.Egyptians were not nubians,people of black skin only made an appearance in the later kingdoms many in fact had statues depicting people with non-african countenances remade, repainted etc. , kind of what is being done today.
Read a histroy book people. Cleopatra was a descendent of Alexander's general, Ptolemy. The Ptolemies only married siblings to keep the bloodline pure. Cleopatra was not a "woman of color'. She was not even Egyptian. She was a Greek.
Complainers, get real. Producers are paying for an epic production. They will cast for box office receipts, not your sense of correctness.
This is really annoying. As a historical fact,Cleopatra was Greek; she wasn't black.
This actually is a kind of offensive argument since it belittles real civil rights issues.
Anyone who knows ancient history will realize thart Cleopatra was of Greek decent. When Alezander the Great died, his will divided his kingdom (the ancient world including Egypt) to his Generals. General Potolome (Cleopatra's ancestor) received and ruled Egypt and passed it down to his decendents. Last time I checked, greeks were olive skined not people of color. Enough with racism.
Here comes the cannon ball. We all black. 🙂
If you google Egypt...It's in Africa but is not considered Africa but instead it is oart of The Middle East. You should check that out...
what diference does it make, I'm pretty sure that there weren't any Australian gladiators but Russell Crowe did all right. let's be realistic, it's a film made by white people for white audiences as most films are. If they want a black Cleopatra, let Spike Lee make one. It's like last month on TCM, Native Americans in film. An Indian complaining how white actors portrayed Indians. How many Native Americans were stars in 1939, as it was John Ford used Navaho's as the Indiams in Stagecoach, but he still called Ford racist. Or how African Americans complain about the blacks who were in the movies in the 30s and 40's were so foolish acting, well so was Lou Costello but I never heard an italian complain about him.
Sounds like another blackwash in hollywood to me. I hope the african community starts buying tickets to the movies, because personally I will not support this rasicm
In 1000 years, they'll have a white actor playing Obama.. haha...
The writer, LISA RESPERS, is just fanning racial flames. Had she simply provided more information about Cleopatra's ancestry, many people wouldn't have jumped to conclusions.
Many African Americans, make a big deal about whether or not Cleopatra was black or not because so much of history has been rewritten to appease a particular group of people. Truth be told if the truth was told then people wouldn't be up in arms about the REAL truth.
I find it amusing that," people of color" means "black", or African. The phrase takes on many more cultures than that of the African, or black race.
Don't forget my brothers and sisters, "people of color" can be Asian, Mexican, I don't care how "white" you look, or what the census says. Lets not forget those hot Italians too. In short.......who gives a @#*&%!! Pick someone who can act! Anyone but Angie. She nasty! LOL
boycott ange
Just hire a Kardashian to play Cleopatra... haha... you know that the make-up artists will do the stereotypical make-up on the actress– then voila– Cleopatra...
Funny, I always thought the same thing when looking at the portrayal Jesus Christ on the cross by the Catholic Church.
I'm betting that he was a darkie, not the fair complected, blue eyed "Jeffery Hunter".
So what Essence is saying is that all Africans look alike?
hahaha. OMG I could sit here all night. Part of me wants to cry at the complete lack of eduation some people have and part of me wants to laugh until I cry. I cannot believe 1100 people have posted on this topic!
Um, why not Halle Berry? Or someone with a slightly darker complexion than Angelina? These aren't the old days in Hollywood, when everyone was depicted by a white person, a la Liz Taylor as Cleo.
lets face it, angelina is a tranny...
Some people need to take a history leson, Cleopatra was part of the Ptolemaic dynasty, from Greece. She was not black. If you dont believe be look it up. Jolie would be a fantastic Cleo.
...angelina is a beautiful lady, but her look is too modern for the part..i think...
Cleopatra was not a woman of color! She wasn't even Egyptian people! Jolie is PERFECT for the role!!
To set the record straight it does matter who plays cleopatra now because it effect the general publics knowledge of who she really was. For starters do not mistake egyptians now from egyptians back then. Egyptians back then, before immigrants of all different colors came to egypt were indeed AFRICAN!!!! Cleopatra herself was not really queen to serve the black egyptian people she was queen who truly served herself she could care less about the people of egypt. She however was not fully of African descent as many would like to believe, however kings and queens before her were of African descent (Darker skinned people). On the subject of Angelina Jolie playing Cleopatra I say go for it I think she would do a great job. It is important to know that Black people once ruled Egypt with noble might and strength, it has undoubtedly been forgotten over the years but one day in the future it shall be remembered.
I think Jolie is perfect for the part, and I am not a fan of hers. Cleopatra was not an attractive lady, but conventional (back in the day and today) standards. But she was well spoken, strong willed, and carried herself in such a way that oozed confidence and power. I'm sure we all know women like this. Angelina does that, even if I don't like her very much.
Oh, for goodness' sake, people, Cleopatra was Macedonian. Her family came from northern Greece. Crack open a history book.
We all have "color"-if we didn't we'd be invisible. Isn't saying that a person is a "person of color" like saying a person is colored? Not all that long ago white people would refer to a black person as "colored"-as if any complexion other than white as "colored" That was ignorant of course-and I think saying "a person of color" is just as ignorant. Anyway-Angelina is so beautiful I say give her any part or anything she wants!!!
To claim Cleopatra was of color because Egypt is in Africa is as insane as demanding that Little Black Sambo be removed from all libraries, etc., back a number of years ago. Black Jumbo and Black Mambo, and Llittle Black Sambo were East Indians. Anyone knows that they were in India from the fact there was a tiger in the story. Tigers are not in Africa, only Asia. Yes, I am still upset that a simple innocent book was removed in the United States because of the misperceptions of a few, just like the misperceptions that cause people to believe Cleopatra was black. Get some knowledge, people,....... learn, remember.
You white people want everything to be white?
No just historically accurate white figures like Cleopatra who was white. Learn history please and stop trying to highjack historical white queens like Cleopatra.
If some people actually read history books they would know that although Cleopatra was queen of Egypt, her ancestry was Greek, she wasn't an ethnic egyptian. Now, how many ethnic black ethnic Greeks have we met?
Who cares what colour she is...I'm just hoping Angelina won't put on a fake accent. That would be hilarious.
I am of Egyptian blood, born and raised there. My people are not black. It is a fact.
But, with Barack Obama and Oprah being black, I sometimes wish if I was one !
Arabs are part of the caucasian race i.e. white, Cleopatra was white get over it we can't re-write history just to please black people who are not happy with the facts.
Cleopatra was not a person of color. She was not even Egyptian. Those who don't know history should not claim that just because the country is on the African continent that everyone is 'of color'. Cleopatra was GREEK, and the last I heard, they are not 'of color.' And she was not even pretty. They said she was desirable because of her beliefs and sensuality, not beauty.
All, I'm an American of mixed race visiting Cairo. I'm surprised to see a lot of Egyptians are WHITE. In fact 20%-30% of the population in Cairo have GREEN eyes! Also all the portraits of Cleopatra I've seen here in Cairo tells me she was white... not even "bronze".
Hmm.. I think it's up to the people who are paying for this movie and the director to determine who they want on screen. Until then, when you have the money to make your own Cleopatra rendition, feel free to cast whoever you want.
Cleopatra was also reportedly an ugly duckling. Lets get Susan Boyle and make it a musical.
Goodness......will history EVER be appropriately represented? Cleopatra was NOT white OR of European descent. Angelina is a great woman but she is still a white woman whose race would NOT accurately represent the true image of Cleopatra. Egypt is found on the African continent- thus, an African country, although culturally many people identify otherwise. The end.
Erika PW how many NONE white European ancient Queens do you know who had European names like Cleopatra, hmm? My goodness how ignorant are American black people. Cleopatra was a WHITE woman, she came from a Dynasty that was WHITE and EUROPEAN. the official language under Cleopatra was a EUROPEAN language: GREEK because guess what that is what Cleopatra was. Having anyone but a white actress portray this historically white Queen will be totally inaccurate. 'The end'.
I am a black woman and I do believe that AJ will do great in the movie. However, reading so many negative comments leads me to believe that there are racial issues on both sides. Until you experience racism firsthand (and usually that's everyday for some people), you CANNOT understand it's deep routed affects. I try to understand some white people's ignorance as it relates to matters of race; it's easy to say get over it, but the reality is racism still exists. That is obvious just from the comments that are made on this blog. I know you may believe that you are OK; because you don't wear a sheet over your head, but what is in your heart eventually comes out. While Essence may have been premature in starting this conversation, understand that it is not without merit. Being a black woman I understand the sensitivity of how our history has been whitewashed. It's in texts and every other history book. When i was in high school, the only introduction of black people in the books started with slavery. That's not true. So, understand the emotion behind this. I believe if white people truly had an appreciation for all people of color (asian, black, brown, yellow) there would be less dialogue about these issues. The reality is you control the media, so you control the image. Share the world.
Ugh... I'm soooo sick of Angelina Jolie. What's so damn great about her? And Brad freaking Pitt. Who cares about them?!?
Cleopatra was a tall woman with a big nose. Judy Gold would be a better choice if you could keep her from camping.
Hollywood seldom gets anything right. I won't see this film with Jolie in the role. Hollywood sucks big time, big, big time.
Some Bollywood actress such as Ashwaria Rai and Priyanka Chopara can provide color needed to represent Cleopatra's portrait and they will give justice to the royalty character of Cleopatra.
I'm so sick and tired of all white people with there looser recessive genes and pointed noised with there flat asses, small chest, thin lips, white people have no history and no culture and white on white can only make white kids.... White people are the ugly white skinned haters of the world.
Cleopatra was no black African and you need to go get yourself an education. Cleopatra was as white as her name clearly suggest her to be. The ancient poet Horace (65-8 B.C.) wrote that Cleopatra was as white as alabaster and another ancient writer Lucan wrote of “Cleopatra's white breasts were revealed by the fabric of Sidon... close-woven by the shuttle of the Seres.” So many ancient sources that talk about Cleopatra being white and yet we still have idiots around here trying to incorrectly claim she was some 'black/mixed' woman. Ludicrous.
Considering her amazing work with thousands of refugees, she can play anything she wants for all I'm concerned.
So, some of you think that just because Cleopatra ruled Egypt, a country in Africa, that she should be played by a black person (Despite her not being black)? This would be like saying that a Nigerian who ruled India should be played by someone of Indian decent. C'mon people. Cleopatra wasn't black, so she shouldn't be played by a black actress. It's not racist. Would you think it would be ok for a white woman to portray Oprah?
Cleopatra was primarily Macedonian, but the Macedonians were not white. Greeks even today do not regard themselves as white. Maybe some that emigrate to the US, and try to pass or move up the social ladder. But take the plastic surgery out, the various cosmetic changes, the skin creams, the blonding and straightening of the hair, and go back 2000 years ago, Macedonians looked more mixed with black than now.
David you are obviously clueless. Greeks have always viewed themselves as white because guess what they are white. Ancient Macedonians are some of the fairest colored Greeks around, they look nothing like any mixed white and black people. Please go get yourself an education and then go check out ancient depictions of Macedonians: they are typical of fair and blond coloring.
Hey David this is what the ancient Macedonians from 2000 years ago looked like: your typical white blond type. Tell us again how ancient Macedonians were not white but some mixed black people so I can laugh at your ignorance.
http://www.adam-carr.net/mainphotofolder/greece-turkey/pella-vergina/PICT0275.JPG
I've got a Cleo for you how about Keanu..
According to historical evidence, Cleopatra was born in Greece, and later ruled over Egypt since that region of Africa was part of ancient Greece. I know that Jolie is one of the most diverse actresses living today, she would probably do very well. cheers!
How ridiculous! Do black people not know history? Cleopatra was a descendant of the Ptolemy dynasty...who were GREEK! Absolutely NOT Black African. By the same logic, in the future if there's a movie about Barack Obama, I think he should be portrayed as an Asian.
I think Jolie would be great. Not sure if Brad should play opposite - I wouldn't want to have the constant comparison to one of Hollywood's greatest couples. Might not hold water, ultimately, tho I love them as Hollywood's new millenium couple. History has been clearly noted in previous posts!
Cosider it payback for making the karate kid black...
This is stupid, the Ptolemy dynasty was Macedonian, and heavily inbred. It is infuriating to me when Afrocentrism is used as an excuse to change history.
There would have been very limited mixing with the local populations, and indeed, if you look at any contemporary statues of Cleopatra she looks to be European.
You could have a debate on whether the statue-makers were just projecting "ideal" looks onto her, but we don't exactly have much evidence to go on one way or another.
99% chance she was at least 3/4 Greek.
Who cares? She could be purple as far as I am concerned.
Why do blacks always think that just because Egypt is in Africa their kings and queens must be black too? So stupid.
Someone mentioned that historically there are several Cleopatra's referenced so please people read! And end this race thing . Angelina Jolie is portraying the Greek version , Cleopatra . There is no law stating that one can't be made about an African or Nubian Cleopatra , that most black people including myself was told about and believe also existed. Case closed
There was no African or Nubian Cleopatra. How many ancient Africans or Nubians do you know with GREEK NAMES like Cleopatra? NONE ZERO ZIP. Cleopatra VII was heir to a 250-year-old Greek dynasty that began when Ptolemy I, one of Alexander the Great’s boyhood friends and generals. After him the Ptolemies embraced traditions of divine rulership and the incest that logically followed. So enthusiastically was the inbreeding embraced that the 16 roles of Cleopatra’s great-great-grandparents were filled by only six individuals, all of whom did double, and sometimes triple, duty as parents, spouses and siblings. The practice opened the door for the family’s equally divine females to occasionally rule (Cleopatra VII was not the first), made domestic life at court literally murderous (there were always equally eligible rivals around) and—perhaps—contributed to the family’s marked tendency to obesity. Such was Cleopatra’s family, and such too was Cleopatra: she had a sister and a brother killed, waged war against another brother, and seems to have run to the family plumpness. When Diana Preston asked an archeosteologist, a specialist in postmortem facial reconstruction, to create a model of Cleopatra based on her image on coins and the busts of other members of her inbred family, the result—fleshy-faced pale and hawk-nosed, with a protruding chin and an underhang beneath the jaw—was a woman far from today’s standard of beauty.
Americans, please read-up on your History!!! Cleopatra was Greek! NOT African-American. The fact that she ruled Egypt which was and is on the continent of Africa doesn't mean that she was african.
The only thing is, As history tells, Cleopatra was NOT a very good looking lady, as is Angelina Jolie. She is known to have had a very long and distinctive nose. But Hollywood employees incredible make-up artists who can whip up a long nose in no time.LOL
BOTTOM LINE: Cleopatra was descended directly from Ptolemy, a Roman man. She was "Italian" as we would call it today. I'm all for portrayal of race where race is due, but Jolie fits the bill.
Instead of people being completely ignorant about Cleopatra and outraging over the fact that she's not being played by a black woman when she was not black, maybe people should focus on the outrage of there not being ONE movie portraying the NUBIAN empire which was an amazing African civilization that rivaled the Egyptians????
Even as the demographics of the United States changes, Old Hollywood is still colored blind. Hollywood is traditionally known for casting its caucasian actors and actresses in roles meant for people of color. Notice how many of Hollywood's leading men and women back in the day were made to be native Americans. I still can't get that imagine of Chuck Connors as Geronimo, in the 1962 movie of the same name, out of my head!!! The public needs to let their voices be heard, and maybe SOMEDAY the OLD Hollywood traditionalists will realize that you CAN MAKE MONEY using people of color, because THEY ARE BEAUTIFUL TOO instead of flushing these roles with what OLD Hollywood feels are the most beautiful people, caucasians.
she would be perfect
There was several Cleopatra's people;
Pick one that suits you and move on . Make a movie about the one you identify with and hopefully you can be satisfied with Ms. Jolie playing the Greek version .
race aside, which by the way, most of you are correct in the fact that cleopatra was not black..... jolie is in my opinion perfect for the role. exotic looking and very graceful in movement. exactly what hollywood cleopatras have always looked like. I cant wait to see how she looks if indeed she is chosen
Cher. Only Cher can play Cleopatra. Case closed.
I can't imagine what they are thinking about by even considering her for this role.--Egyptians are dark people. Yes, there are some lighter Egyptians but none of them are white. Again, I can't even imagine what they are thinking about.
Also, history portrays this queen as being a "full" woman. She was very shapely with "full" arms and legs. I don't see this in Anjolina either. Overall, she's not a good pick.
Cleopatra? Boring.
The bottom line is that this is a movie not a history lesson. And who is to say she will be blue eyed in the movie?? She may wear colored contacts. And who is to say Cleopatra didn't have blue eyes? Angie is a great actress and I'm sure it will be a box office hit.
K, those desperate in their longing to pin anyone and everyone famous to their culture are a ship full of fools. Tiger Woods? He doesn't even proclaim himself to be African-American and yet everyone refers to him as the first great black golfer. Obama? He's of mix race yet everyone refers to him as an African-American. Cleopatra? Hello! One, she was a tyrannical killer who would do anything for power. Two, she was of GREEK descent. Three, even if she had been from Africa, hello, not everyone there is of one color just like with every other nation on earth. All of those who constantly cry racism, here's a hint. You don't want race to be an issue? QUIT BRINGING IT UP ALL THE TIME. Whoever they choose to play Cleopatra should be done on the basis of ability and ticket draw not becase her skin is too light. Hey wait, wouldn't THAT be racist?
She would make a great Cleopetra.
It's Mark Antony, NOT Mark Anthony
Well I think she is a great actress and the movie will makes lots of money. If I wanted to have a history lesson I would watch BBC or national geographic or something.
ha ha... all this chit chat and she doesn't even want the role!
Angelina Jolie is not a good actress, if she plays Cleopatra I will not watch it based on that! Her last few movies have been awful. Her career is on it's way out and she is such a bad person in real life that I think that's reason enough not to watch her movies. Please get a real actress for this role!
I keep hearing that Cleopatra was Greek as though that mean anything. The African genes was already well establish in Greece along before Cleopatra. A matter of fact , the African genes is so well establish in Europe, that 33% of all white British have African genes in them, made so by a process that was initiated 1500 years ago.
ZunguZunguZeng, you are once again 100% wrong. There were no "African genes" in Greece. Greek people did not look like black people nor mixed african. Go study how ancient Greeks depict themselves. they are white Europeans. And Cleopatra came from the Greek tribe the Macedonians who are typically very fair in coloring.
Cleopatra descended from Alexander's generals. Greek.
did you know that Cleo only had 6 great-grandfather out of a possible 16? Guess what! The were Caucasian and so was she. She is of Greek decent, inbred to the teeth and white white white. Read about her and you will know better. She was a very interesting Greek/Roman looking woman who wore dark haired wigs because that was the fashion in Egypt. You shaved your hair and then put someone else's hair on. Strange, but thats the way it was done.
Attn: Nina
You should educate yourself and not rely on "Hollywood" My goodness, you should like the Arizona governor. Why do you think Egypt is? Would it not be Africa? What was the bone structure of her sister? Not of African decent, was it not?
The bone structure of her sister was not found. stop with the lies. Neither Cleopatra nor her sister had any African admixture The ancient poet Horace (65-8 B.C.) wrote that Cleopatra was as white as alabaster and another ancient writer Lucan wrote of “Cleopatra's white breasts were revealed by the fabric of Sidon... close-woven by the shuttle of the Seres.” So many ancient sources that talk about Cleopatra being white and yet we still have idiots around here trying to incorrectly claim she was some 'black/mixed' woman. Ludicrous.
Candyland, how do you know Cleo wasnt very light skinned? were you living back then?? Many greeks have very fair skin and are blonde , why does she have to have a specific skin color how about the best actress gets the role, novel idea huh?
Why would people want a historically caucasian figure to be played by someone dark?? Cleopatra was Ptolemaic, not Egyptian. Silliness.
I would rather see Jolie play in the next Tomb Raider movie!
I don't particularly like Jolie and I think she's overrated and overexposed, but oddly enough I think she'd be a perfect fit IF the directing and acting is done well.
I'm Egyptian. The comment about Cleopatra being played by a "women of color" shows a distinct lack of understanding. On average, Egyptians are white. We have tan skin, but we are not black. If I can't claim "African America" on my student loans, Cleopatra shouldn't be played by someone who looks so different.
With that said, many Egyptologists don't believe Cleopatra was Egyptian, but rather Greek. She was not black.
I would hate to see Angelina Jolie play Cleopatra because she's not a good actress.
Boo Hoo. The NAACP and their constant whining is getting pretty fricking old. It's entertainment. Stop always getting your feelings hurt and shut up already.
Crack a history book and stop watching the Disney Channel. Alexander the great conquered Egypt and his general Ptolemy ruled it. Cleopatra was a direct decendent. It sure is a bummer when FACTS get in the way of one's cherised racial agenda. Also, do you honestly believe that Ceaser or Mark Anthony would consort with a Nubian in ancient Rome??? Flush your headgear out folks.
Lets not forget that the folks in Egypt today did not look the way they did a 1,000+ years ago. 1,000+ years ago their futures would have been more strongly African than it is today. Lets also not forget that Egypt is part of the African continent and a member of the African Union, and that it is sunny and very hot. The point is that there is not doubt that Queen Cleopatra is a African woman, a woman whose complexion has been kiss by the Sun and not the tanning booth.
ZunguZunguZeng, you are 100% wrong. Cleopatra was no African women, ancient African women didn't have European names like Cleopatra and ancient Greek royals like Cleopatra were fair skinned and they didn't sit under the sun to tan their bodies given tanned bodies were seen a lower class back then of field hands working out in the fields underneath the hot sun. The ancient poet Horace (65-8 B.C.) wrote that Cleopatra was as white as alabaster and another ancient writer Lucan wrote of “Cleopatra's white breasts were revealed by the fabric of Sidon... close-woven by the shuttle of the Seres.” So many ancient sources that talk about Cleopatra being white and yet we still have idiots around here trying to incorrectly claim she was some 'black/mixed' woman. Ludicrous.
good heavens
CLEOPATRA WAS GREEK
Cleopatra was a Macedonian Greek. Doesn't anyone have an education anymore?
Bust of Cleo carved during her lifetime (form Wiki entry re 'Ancient Egyptian Race Controversy'):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Kleopatra-VII.-Altes-Museum-Berlin1.jpg
Again prejudice. Egypt has many colors and ethnicities and she is an actress and that is what actresses do play roles.
Who cares? I'm sick of seeing her!
The Cleo of this discussion was from the Pyolemy line of almost pure Greek blood. The Brother and Sister Ptolemy clan married to keep the lines Macedonian. Talk to any historian or archeologist...its amazing how so many people base opinions off totally false info.
read some and stop guessing: http://www.youregypt.com/ehistory/history/greek/cleopatravii/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/egypt/4995155/Cleopatra-had-African-ancestry-skeleton-suggests.html
You guys need to read updated facts:
Evidence obtained by studying the dimensions of Arsinöe’s skull shows she had some of the characteristics of white Europeans, ancient Egyptians and black Africans, indicating that Cleopatra was probably of mixed race, too. They were daughters of Ptolemy XII by different wives.
No one is saying that Cleopatra was 100% black, they are just saying she didn't look like Angelina Jolie either. But its Hollywood. When has Hollywood ever told the truth when it comes to the movies. Just like slaves were happy in "Gone with the Wind". I say let it go and let Hollywood do what it does best, keep the lies going. Research for yourself (updated materials) and come to your own conclusion. Oh, and everyone stop quoting Wikipedia. Seriously.
You might want to brush up on the fact that article is based upon bogus misinformation. For one that body isn't Arsinoe for the main reason its that of a young teen girl while Cleopatra's sister was killed in her twenties. Secondly they used the outdated 'skull method' to determine the 'race' of the skeleton remains on a skull they don't even have. Thirdly its a known fact that the Ptolemies did not intermix outside their Greek-Macedonian royal lineage. So neither Cleopatra nor her sister were of 'mixed' origins. The ancient poet Horace (65-8 B.C.) wrote that Cleopatra was as white as alabaster and another ancient writer Lucan wrote of “Cleopatra's white breasts were revealed by the fabric of Sidon... close-woven by the shuttle of the Seres.” So many ancient sources that talk about Cleopatra being white and yet we still have some around here trying to incorrectly claim she was some 'black/mixed' woman. Ludicrous.
She's a great actress. She did a fantastic job on the Changling. Give her a chance to show how talented she really is.
What no one seems to remember is that Cleopatra wasn't actually Egyptian – both her parents were offspring of the Greek Ptolemaic dynasty that ruled Egypt before it was taken over by Rome, a remnant of Alexander the Great's conquests a few centuries earlier. So Cleopatra wasn't Egyptian, nor was she African, but Greek. And lo and behold, Greeks are generally considered to be white (as opposed to black), so demanding that an actress of [sub-Saharan] African descent play someone who was not African is really unjustifiable.
So, now all traditional Africans are "sub saharan blacks" who never made any contribution to other parts of the continent, Egypt included? A real historian would know better.
IT'S a MOVIE. Get over it, read a history book and go pay attention to your kids. Good lord people....seriously?
None of this matters. The truth is Angelina Jolie is a bad actor and there are better actors of all cultures, black, white, hispanic, asian that could and should play the part. She's on of the worst.
everybody know Miss Cleo a black woman! Like that stick-in-bones ghost-girl Angelina Jolie gonna be able to play my Nubian princess Miss Cleo, from the psychic network y'all???!!!
To have a Black woman portray Cleo historically would be like casting a White man to portray MalcolmX or Dr. Martin Luther King historically. Not right! Angelina is a good choice.
The Ptolemaic dynasty was Hellenistic, having been founded 300 years before by Ptolemy I Soter, a Macedonian Greek general of Alexander the Great. As such, Cleopatra's language was the Greek spoken by the Hellenic aristocracy, though she was reputed to be the first ruler of the dynasty to learn Egyptian. Thus, she was European (Macedonian).
Reading this is proof that our school systems suck!
Hello! Jennifer Aniston is Greek! Aniston's Greek American father was born Yannis Anastassakis on the island of Crete, Greece, while her mother is of Scottish and Italian descent and was born in New York City. She lived in Greece for one year as a child with her family, and they later relocated to New York City. It seems they have cast the wrong Mrs. Pitt.
jaye.hawthorne: dude, are you high? I'd suggest that you STFU until you read a real history book. Rent 'Idiocracy'. It's filled with people like you.
Modern human beings appeared in African around 200,000 years ago. Unless you're one of those idiots who believes the world was created only 6,000 years ago by the Flying Spaghetti Monster in the sky. We are all Africans. That means Cleopatra was descended from "Africans" as were all her people. As are you and I. IIt is not suprising to see how insecure people are about skin color as regards historical figures, as we have all been programmed to despise the African part of our human heritage. It is an unfortunate reality. Maybe one day we can all learn to love Africa again and rediculous discussions like the one about Angelina Jolie being cast in the movie will be come irrelevant.
It's about selling tickets, not historical accuracy.
Fine by me...Cleopatra was of Greek lineage, a descendant of one of Alexander the Great's Generals
What's Moor, the true romantic Cleopatra wasn't even part EGGPLANT, she was full CANTALOUPE!
I think angelina jolie is highly over rated. She is OK looking, but not all that. And as for her as cleopatra, I think they could do better. I think Scarlet Johanson would be a much better choice. And please have her in some simply costumes.
Here's a brief history lesson: The Ptolemy's were Macedonian and Caucasians. The fact that this reality is a problem for some people speaks more about *their* racism than anything else. 2000+ years ago, Egypt was already a shadow of it's former self. The Arabs that live their now have a very tenuous connection to the Ancient Egyptians... they're ethnically Arab, with little remaining of that ancient greatness.
Get over yourselves and stop trying to lay claim to Egypt as an 'African' civilization. You'd be just as correct saying that the Persians or Babylonians were black African civilizations. They weren't... and you'd be just as wrong. Idiots. The next thing you'll try to say is that Rap music started in Egypt...
This is absolutely ridiculous!!!
I AM EGYPTIAN
...egyptians aren't black AT ALLL. we're not black...we characterized as caucasians!!!
this is yet ANOTHER ignorant american article
But what's wrong with having olive skin and be characterized as black Peter? Is it better to be called white with olive skin? Is a bit silly isn't? I think whether Halley Berry or Angelina Jolie play Cleopatra is fine.
Yep, this just confirms the sorry state of education in this country. Browsing the posts, it is obvious that only a minority of people are aware that Cleopatra was Greek, the last of the Ptolemaic rulers who inherited Egypt from Alexander the Great. Cleopatra was not African, and a woman of color would not be appropriate to portray her. Let's learn us some history, folks.
People seriously need read history books!!! Cleopatra's family were descendents of Ptomely, a Greek and one of Alexander the Great's generals. Her family members married other family members making them in-breeders, like the royal House of Habsburg. Therefore, Cleopatra did not look African but Greek. By the way, I am African American and I have no problem with Angelina playing Cleopatra.
I love how African Americans think that because Egypt is in Africa that Egyptians were black.
I don't care her playing Cleopatra. I heard Oliver Stone is directing a bio-drama about Rosa Parks and he wrote the part for Angelina. I can't wait for that!
Cleo was of Greek descent so she should have light skin. What about t he Queen of Sheba? Was she a woman of color?
Saying the caucasian Cleopatra was a black African would be like saying the Spanish conquistadores were actually Native Americans!
Learn your history. After the death of Alexander the Great, Ptolemy was given rule of Egypt. Cleopatra was of Greek descent. Pharaohs married within their own families to keep the blood lines pure. Cleopatra would most likely have been light skinned.
Joile is a pretty woman,but I dont feel she'd be right for the part. I'm a Blk woman and I am a little tired of white women playing this part. Whats wrong with latina's playing the part? Put a little color in the part why dont ya?
According to ancient rules of beautiful, Cleopatra needs to be a little fat. Angelina Jolie is too skinny for a rich woman in the old days with lots of servants.
Have any of you seen the bust of cleaopatra. She is always depicted to have a very Romanesque look about her. Long neck and roman nose. They all look European to me. I am not sure which ones were made while she was alive and possibly posed for the sculpture. But AJ should pull it off just fine. More than likely Cleopatra looked very much EU since those families liked to keep it in the family so to speak.
I don't understand why jolie wouldn't play Cleopatra well. Jolie is a great actress and a great beauty plus she has a unique exotic look (Iroquois indian descent) and does not sport the typical american white look. Her complexion is not ivory. If you want to be realistic hire an egyptian. I see no difference in hiring Jolie vs and african neither being egyptian. I figure finding a woman who can act really well who is famous for her beauty and is not a blueyed blonde might not be so easy to find. I think they made a great choice. They could have chose an actress who is younger and very beautiful but not one who can act so well..
This is ludicrous. Cleopatra was a GREEK person, from a line of Greek Pharaohs. She wasn't Egyptian. She came from the line of the Ptolemaic dynasty.
Learn your history before you go crying about things you flippin' morons!!!!
White ppl are really the devil
wow if thats not the racist thing that ive ever heard in my life. Cleo. WAS WHITE, read about her and maybe you will know the truth. So many think that she was african, but thats how people were raised. they were raised that every legend on the face of this earth were of one ethinicity only. The oompa loompas were ORANGE and nobody says anything bad about them!!
The problem is that peole get their history lesson from Hollywood! I am waitng for the day when they dare make a film about Jesus with an dark skinned actor
I think it's just as dumb for anyone on this board to say that because a person is described as nonEgyptian that it means they are a person of color. If they are a person of color, and described as having color, then to not described them as their historical description is deception. Just because a person isn't black doesn't mean their caucasian.
And to make it seem that a person is getting upset over nothing is the farthest from the truth. It's not about getting mad, it's about fabricating what's correct. Don't describe Ghengis Khan with the same features of Charlamaine, and then just pass it of as someone being upset playing the race card because someone pointed out the inaccuracey. The truth has everything to do with it. And since none of us living right now were born during those acients times to have seen these people and tell about it, then really no one can really say 100% what was what, regardless of what degree or data you've read. Just to be fair.
So sure, maybe Angie J. is fair skin, but she's not Greek. And it's absolutely absurd that some of you don't get the basic concept that there are plenty of capable actors and actresses that are Greek, that could fit this role. But to accurately replicate histroy, it makes just as much sense to put someone Greek playing Cleopatra, even though she was part Egyptian, as it does having someone Native American to play Sitting Bull. Or someone of latino descent playing Che Guevera or Don Quijote.
To not get that, then you don't get it; which is why the only thing some of you can equate it to for your mental reasoning, is playing the race card.
You guys are arguing theory and outdated history. Here's the truth... http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article5908494.ece
THIS Is the truth: The ancient poet Horace (65-8 B.C.) wrote that Cleopatra was as white as alabaster and another ancient writer Lucan wrote of “Cleopatra's white breasts were revealed by the fabric of Sidon... close-woven by the shuttle of the Seres.” So many ancient sources that talk about Cleopatra being white and yet we still have idiots around here trying to incorrectly claim she was some 'black/mixed' woman. Ludicrous. Cleopatra was a WHITE woman get over it.
Halle Barry would be perfect~
Again..for the third time..cleo was greek. Sheesh, the number of stupid people on this board is staggering. That being said I agree with other posters about her age. Angeline is a striking woman, but she is too old for the part. Cleo was in her late teens when she met Caesar
Idnorance of history is one of my pet peeves, Cleopatra was not black, she was a Ptolomy. That means she was Greek. Also, while I think Angelina is one of the most beautiful women in the world she is too tall and thin to be Cleopatra. Cleopatra was short and fat. Of course Hollywood would never cast a chubby woman in the role, they would be better off casting Jennifer Aniston since she's Greek.
My real problem is that I don't think any recognizable actor or actress should be picked for such a part because the movie becomes Angelina Jolie as Cleopatra rather than a movie about Cleopatra and any sort of artistic/historic seriousness just goes flying out the window. I know I won't be paying money to go see it in the theater. At best, it will be a renter because when a movie is centered around such a high price star, it becomes distorted to show off the star, not the character. Besides there are so few in Hollywood that can truly become a part, and Jolie is absolutely not one of them.
Backlash? seriously I think they over dramatize things here. Angelina would be perfect for the role since the concept of royalty back then kind of matches celebrity power now. Moreover, Cleppatra had striking beauty which Jolie does (of course the concept of beauty was different then.) Lastly, having dark skin and wavy hair can come from many ethnic bacgrounds. I say get those tan spray guns and dark contacts and start shooting tomorrow!
who gives two rips what color anyones skin is? jeezuz . . . can none of you can see past the ethnicity of this person or that? whatever . . . it all seems unimportant to me, in the scheme of things, that is.
I heard that MGM is filming the Oprah Winfrey story, starring Diane Keaton as Oprah. She might be a little old, but other than that I have no problem with it. Any comments? Candyland? You ok with that?
hey kids, i love angie and think she's a great actress, without peer. but i have to agree that the role of cleopatera should go to someone from the east, you have to remember that 2000 years ago people were not that mixed , and i think a dark skined cleo would do better than another white skined woman trying to play an Egytian. i'm sure there are Egyptian actresses, or at least a few from the middle east that would be capable. sorry ang, but if you get the role, i for one wont go see it.
If she has the right personality for the role then who cares?
Cleopatra was neither black nor was she even Egyptian. She was Macedonian. Being a Ptolemy she was descended from one of Alexander the Greats right hand men. Ptolemy was awarded the land of Egypt to rule by Alexander. In addition it is true that there are many North Africans (Eqyptians included) that are considered olive skinned, almost Meditteranean in appearance not that this should matter.
JOLIE? Yewww!
Cleopatra was Greek, not Egyptian. Her ancestor, the first Ptolemy, acquired Egypt when the empire of the deceased Alexander the Great was divided among his chief generals.
Thank god I am not the only one who knows TRUE history!!!!! 🙂
Angelina is TOO OLD to play Cleopatra!! In any event, I say BOYCOTT CALIFORNIA and all its fruits and nuts!! Particularly Holly-weird. If we all donated two weekends' worth of the cost of a movie ticket, maybe we could begin helping our American brothers and sisters.
I am Egyptain, and my skin is white. My son and daughter's also have white skin. I am offended when I hear that I am not dark enough to be Egyptain. There is a spectrum of skin color in Egypt, from white to very dark brown (tan). I do not agree with Jolie being cast as Egyptain, but nor do I agree with Halle Barry in the same role.
You may be a "realegyptian" now but you were NOT an ORIGINAL Egyptian.
Btw, even Egyptians today come in colors darker than "tan". LMAO
I don't want to get too crazy here, but what if the actress was neither black nor white, but rather EGYPTIAN?
Cleo was not of African blood. GET OVER IT "black americans". Just because you want something to be true, doesn't make it true.
That writer from Essence.com should have done her homework... she would have realized that Cleopatra wasn't black, nor was she actually Egyptian by blood.
And on top of that, Egyptians aren't black either!
Hilarious article! Cleopatra, black? Black Greeks? A black Ptolemy? Seriously?! If they're going for historical accuracy, what they need is an ugly Cleopatra. Nose like a beak is usually how she's described.
People people...pick up a book!! Cleopatra was of the GREEK ptolemy family. How many stupid americans are there???? Don't all raise your hands at once, you'll tilt the planet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Wow! Its very interesting to see all of the uneducated comments. I fault CNN, the editor and writer for this article. Many whites and people who do not claim any ancestry from Africa enjoy telling part of the story concering Cleopatra. Its true that Cleopatra, the daughter of Pharaoh Ptolemy XII, possess features of a Roman. However, the famous Cleopatra statues that everyones sees in the musems or on the history channel of a beautiful colored woman is in fact, Cleopatra the third. This Queen of Egypt was born before Cleopatra VII (Roman descent). Folks, in Egyptian history, there have been a total of 7 Cleopatras. All but one of the Cleopatra queens were of color and had a direct link to african heritage The great think about today's science, DNA of hair samples and bone fragments tell the entire story about one's physical presences.
OMG another ignorant person and with a Greek name to boot. Socrates, Cleopatra the III had ZERO African lineage and she was no 'woman of color'. She was of the Ptolemaic bloodline as ALL Cleopatras were. She was born in 161 BC to Ptolemy VI and Cleopatra II of Egypt both of them were of GREEK-MACEDONIAN lineage. And stop lying, there are no DNA hair samples and bone fragments that show any of the Cleopatras being 'woman of color'. They were all white of Greek-Macedonian origins.
Why not Halle Berry... She's mixed (blacks and whites can be ignorantly happy) but she will have the bronze skin tone of a true Egyptian and can bring in the crowd. WIth Hugh Jackman as Mark Anthony... Tired of Jolie and Brad, Mr and Mrs Smith, need I say more but I will, it was LAME.
Essence.com has to get real because they are missing the point. It is not about race or acting prowess....it is all about dollars baby...Angelina Jolie sells!!! Stop whining and get a clue kids.
i read a post from an egyptian who seemed to feel that because she is a modern-day egyptian that she automatically has expertise on the subject. that would be like any one of us modern-day americans assuming expertise of ancient americans, native americans, because we now occupy this country. egypt did not become predominantly arabic until the spread of islam in the seventh century. someone else said that the egyptians were caucasians. be aware that modern-day ethiopians and somalies are considered caucasians too. it is a term based on bone structure which unfortunately leaves a large margin of error because east africans have what are called caucasian features, even though they probably had those features before a white person ever walked this planet. the ancient egyptians represented themselves as a deep reddish brown people which is the precise color of most black people in that part of the world. most black people even in africa are not literally black in color. for other references to the egyptians as a people - not the arabs that are presently there - look at diodorus' library of history and as i mentioned earlier herodotus' the histories. these men were eye witnesses.
This irritates me and has LONG been a pet peeve of mine since people complain about this over and over it seems. Cleopatra was NOT African!!!! She was GREEK. She was from the Ptolemy line that inherited Egypt after Alexander the Greats death. She wouldn't be BLACK. She'd appear GREEK. Which is still more ethnic than any actress that has portrayed her....at least complain with some historical accuracy! Gr.
Cleopatra was part of the Ptolemy dynasty. The Ptolemies were Greeks / Macedonians who ruled Egypt after Alexander the Great died and his empire fell apart. Cleopatra was not of Egyptian or African. Like pretty much all the Ptolemies, Cleopatra was of Greek / Macedonian descent. She was the Queen of Egypt in roughly the same way that Queen Victoria was the Empress of India even though she was English rather than Indian. Monarchs often rule over (and sometimes live in) parts of the world that they and their families don't come from.
If it matters that Cleopatra be portrayed "authentically" in terms of her race / ethnicity, then you would get someone of Greek or Macedonian ancestry. On the other hand, if you just want Cleopatra to be played "authentically" in terms of being someone who is strikingly beautiful (as Cleopatra was reputed to be), then you just choose someone strikingly beautiful and don't care what their race / ethnicity is.
Leave it up to the liberal racists in our country to turn this into a racial issue. It's pretty sad that we can't have a single day without liberals trying to stoke racial tensions. It all makes me sad.
Jolie playing Cleopatra isn't a big stretch for her. She's a great actress. However, I would prefer to see Shakira instead.
Cleopatra was Greek, Jennifer Aniston should play her !!!!!!!
Ben Kingsley's real name is Krishna Bhanji. You should know what you're talking about before you post.
Anyone would be better than Elizabeth Taylor.
Neither Angelina nor an African American really fit the bill. How about Aishwarya Rai–maybe a little problem with her Hindi accent, but she has the right skin color and is completely gorgeous. That's my vote.
It should go to an Egyptian or other Mesopotamian woman, not white or black. My favorite Cleopatra is France Nuyen of Star Trek lore.
people! PLEOPLE! PLEASE!!! dont you think the world its polluted and messed up enough to be WORRYING about who's white and who's black? COME ON!!! WHO CARES??> WHO CARES???? please!!!! while you guys are building an ulcer in your stomachs and trying to argue and wonder why she is bla bla bla bla.......
guess what? ANGELINA its at home with her kids and husband and $$$$$ not caring about ANY!! ANY!!! of your sorry SORRY opinions!!! get a life, please WATCH SOCCER!!!! DO SOMETHING...GET ON A DIET... ENJOY LIFE>>> DONT YOU SEE?? the way things are going? you dont know when its the next tsunami, or earthquake, or someone important in your life dying, who knows what else we as humans are we gonna end up doing to each-other.....just look at the gulf of mexico!!!! our backyard how messed up and polluted that is... people PLEASE worry about the ground where you walk instead,,,,, ITS SO MUCH MUCH MUCH MORE IMPORTANT!
why can't we all
get along, and worry about things that are worth to worry about.. 😀
This is more important:
ANGELINA JOLIE UNHCR GOODWILL AMBASSADOR ' WORLD REFUGEE DAY 2010' MESSAGE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSIRofchiDo&feature=player_embedded
She looks like she needs to eat.
She looks totally greek to me – just like Cleopatra – I don't see what the problem is.
CNN has been race-baiting consistently... Yesterday, there was this non-story about Obama being, or not being an Angry Black Man. Today, this... Race to the bottom, where FOX News is waiting for them. How sad.
Hey guys, for all of you people that think the part of Cleopatra should go to a person of color. The only validity to that argument is if the that person is Arabic. Egypt is the center of the Muslim world and during her time people look now like they did then.....they didn't look like people from Ethiopia. If the legend of Cleo's beauty is as accurate as history portrays her than Jolie, with a little bit of makeup, would perfectly fit the beauty and and exotic looks of the ancient Ruler.
Are you freaking kidding me. She would be an awesome Cleopatra. She is perfect for that role. This is a joke, and I never post on stuff like this.
Alot of people making assumptions based on what the racial makeup of the area is now as opposed to 2000 years ago. Judging by her bloodline, primarily Greek in heritage, and by judging the limited artwork that were of her time period (I only know a small handful of images confirmed to be from her time) I would have to say she was Olive skinned with dark hair and dark eyes, there's a time specific sculputre of her from Roman Times that are pretty western in features and there are two time period specific "paintings" of her and one painted bust which reflect her as olive skinned or light brown in coloration. She was, quite frankly, one of the mediterranean peoples, neither white nor black.
I laugh@ all the comments of people getting so angry about the race of someone they have never met all that we know about this woman is what was told to us even with all the research it is still not firsthand knowledge it was told to you by somone who it was told to and so on and so forth does it really matter who plays the part even movies that are based on true stories these days are so inflated to be "MORE INTERESTING" so at the end of the day all that matters is she does a good job, isnt that why they act to be recognized for there talent ???????
One thing that hasn't been addressed is the new book this movie is supposed to be based upon. It's not even out yet. Will it have new revalations about Cleopatra? Why would the author specifically say Angelina was the best for the part?
In addition it seems like many people seem to have narrowminded views about the African continent. Since when were there only black ( as we know today) people in Africa? Soon some of you will want Denzel Washington to play DF Malan, Prime Minister of South Africa because he was African not realizing that he was a white segregationist.
One last thing, Angelina is stunning and all you haters need to check yourselves. I laugh at the other actresses mentioned to do this. Angelina features are more ethnic than those actresses! It's astonishing. If Angelina let her skin do what it wants to do, she can get very very very dark. Just look at some pictures when she took a break from doing the goth mama look.She's doing the smart thing now by staying away from the sun . Liz Taylor was and is still stunning. One thing she did was give the impression that Cleopatra was beautiful. Looking at the images all over, theres no way in heck that Cleo was 1/10th the beauty of Liz or Angelina.
Wow– there's alot of revisionist histoy going on here...I get it, so Africans are no longer Africans but "sub-saharan blacks" who only lived in the middle of the continent and made no contribution at all to Egypt or anyplace else?
Just because a continent has some diversity (i.e. Europe) doesn't mean we should strip the original peoples of their land association. We say "Eurpoean" and immediately think white, not black, arab, etc. although those groups are there.
Cleopatra was Greek!!!!
I am so sad for my country after reading through this. There are real blogs discussing real issues with < 1% the comments and passion as an argument about the merits of a movie actress, her skin tone, the likely tone of skin which rotted thousands of years ago, the "he was black too" re-writing of history, the "no he wasn't" indignant rebuttals.
Go hug your kids. Help your fellow man. Work hard for your family. Worship (or not) as you see fit. Write a book, plant a tree, lend your neighbor a socket wrench... do some damn thing that is useful and meaningful.
How ignorant... Cleopatra was the daughter of General Ptolemy, who was 100% Macedonian. So was her mother. Cleopatra was not Egyptian at all, had no Egyptian blood, and was 100 per cent Macedonian (close to Greek.) I think, those in the Black community that are not so sure, should read some history books, and involve themselves in matters that are more pertinent.
Whats next? John Wayne as Genghis Khan? ? Oh wait he did....
Cleopatera wasn't black at all. She was the daughter of Macedonian patricians! Last time I checked, Macedonia was in northern Greece!
Exactly... Sometimes I think I live in a parallel Universe, where people don't read any books.
Actually, while Cleopatra was technically of Greek descent, her Greek ancestors are from centuries previous. Historical records suggest that she was not, in fact, fully white, but most likely of mixed race heritage. Back during her day, the distinctions we give to the continents were not as pronounced, so Egypt was held to be an interesting conflation of Africa and Asia. What we've done in contemporary performances of Cleopatra, particularly in film, is appropriated Cleopatra as exoticized, but "white," when she was most likely, and often acknowledged from ancient Greek writers to today to be, a woman of color. Having Angelina Jolie play the role of Cleopatra is feeding again into the ignorant stereotype of an exoticized white woman playing who was for centuries considered, yes, an African Queen. Cleopatra herself identified as being Egyptian, not Greek. I think it would be extraordinarily progressive and a refreshing, and more accurate, change to see Cleopatra played by a woman of color.
Actually Jennifer Park Cleopatra and the Ptolemies were fully Greek, they didn't intermix outside their Greek Macedonian royal lineage. There is absolutely no credible evidence to support any mixed ethnicity of Cleopatra. This bogus mixed ethnicity claim is a modern invention. Ancient sources and evidence do not support any such claim. The ancient poet Horace (65-8 B.C.) wrote that Cleopatra was as white as alabaster and another ancient writer Lucan wrote of “Cleopatra's white breasts were revealed by the fabric of Sidon... close-woven by the shuttle of the Seres.” So many ancient sources that talk about Cleopatra being white and yet we still have idiots around here trying to incorrectly claim she was some 'black/mixed' woman. Ludicrous.
Sometimes personality outweighs the exterior. She might be Cleo's reincarnation.......
Ok, it's just a movie. Were not voting her into office or anything. So big deal. This is alot of hoopla over a little bit of entertainment. Do people really spend that much of their own time watching tv and movies? And do they really put that much of themselves into the whole process of a movie? And they are really whining about who is or is not going to be in it? Ya, ok, right. It's 2 hours of your life you'll never get back.
O, and.....
-Lola
-Look on your map. Egypt is in AFRICA. That makes them African.
Egypt is ON the continent of Africa. The same as Canada is ON the North America Continent, I however am not Canadian and they are not American. Hmmm, go figure?
Now, I can't believe I wasted time here. I'll never get it back :<
Jolie is no "white" if you consider the canadian indians (natives) she also descends from.
She is an ACTRESS. Actresses ACT in a movie. Its not REAL people. Wake up. -_-
Let us not confuse sub-Saharan blacks with Egyptians. A black woman portraying Cleopatra would be as "wrong" as a white woman. Plus, they will cast whomever they think will "sell" the best. They don't care about historical accuracy. If they did, a lot of movies would go unwatched. I know, I know, just another reason for some blacks to cry "racism."
Uhhh, Robert, regarding "an Englishman playing Gandhi," Ben Kingsley was born Krishna Pandit Bhanji. Half Indian, born in England. His grandfather came from the same state in India that Gandhi did.
I blame the education system. There are Black Americans who believe Cleopatra and Hannibal were black, and then there are White Americans who believe that dinosaurs coexisted to humans.
There's nothing quite like ignorance leading to a misplaced accusation of racism. With racism being so much based on ignorance, it's really rather a sad irony.
It's right up there with someone correcting another's grammar while using incorrect grammar, themselves, only with the provocativeness of race thrown in.
people, jolie is not "white" as you define it, not if we consider the canadian indians (natives) from whom she also descends...
first of all Cleopatra was egyptain, Egypt historically is tied to the middle east, also the are apart of the arab speaking world. The country is tied more into the arab world then the African so if you want to make an argument maybe Cleopatra should be played by an arab actress
Not true, Mike. You are thinking in terms of recent (AD) history and not ancient (BC) history. Study the hieroglyphics and the timeline of Egytian history and you'll see.
A black actor probably SHOULD be cast to portray a Nubian king, such as Tefnakht, but a black actress SHOULD NOT be cast to portray Cleopatra, descendant of the (often fair-skinned, light-haired, blue-eyed) Macedonian (present-day Bulgaria) Greek Alexander the Great's incestuous Ptolemaic progeny. Afrocentric scholarship makes some interesting points, but the watered-down, popular insistence that a European foreign imperial ruler of Egypt be depicted as an indigenous African is completely ignorant and historically worthless.
Cleopatra wasn't "Black" and she wasn't even "Egyptian"...
She was Macedonian, "homies"...
And, let's not forget Angelina Jolie played Alexander's mother, so she's already "Fit" to play a Macedonian queen....
Gawdz.
These postings are all over the place....... in any event we have cleared up the color of Cleopatra, now to the movie. These remakes are 99 % a disappointment, I don't even know why the movie studio's bother – most original films stick to the historic content.... the remakes usually are adapted to today's mentality.... People 2200 years ago didn't think the way we do today. I don't really care if Angelina will star in it or Charleze Theron.... I doubt that it will be nearly as good a movie as the original MGM.
There will be a lot of special effects, the historic content will be skewed and very little good acting.
Hasn't this movie been done before. How can they make it different. Anyway wasn't Cleo 17 when she died or very young? One movie I won't see.
I think this girl should play Cleopatra. http://www.sanamstudios.com Or atleast get to dance in the movie.
Ridiculous to portray Cleopatra as black. There would have been a reference in the writings of the time...of which there are many. Also, Cleopatra comes from the Ptolemy dynasty, which was known to be very inbred...and Greek!
why do black pple even care she is of white descendent, cleopatra is white i dont care if she lived in africa
What's wrong with Angelina playing Cleopatra? She got the looks and the features, as well as the talent.
Yes, some people needs to read history.
Cleopatra was part Greek. The Egyptians were north African, but were certainly not black. The later "black" Pharaohs presided over an Egypt that was a shell of its former self. They were like locusts stripping an already dying field clean.
Jerry, no she would not have been swarthy in color, the ancient Greeks where light – blonde, it is mostly after the Ottoman invasion that Greeks and other people's of the Balkans were mixed with Asians people because a large percentage were converted and married Turks, also don't forget the practice of Prima Nocta.
Cleopatra was whatever...okay...that's fine but Angelina Jolie playing her? this chick is just not a good actress. Her boobs played Laura Croft. She did a black face movie playing the wife of Daniel Pearl (sorry folks I forgot) but she never has really impressed me. She's all lips and boobs.
I couldn't even watch "Alexander" as her accent was all over the place. She needs to stick with what she does best-shoot guns and play a bad girl type. Stop with this madness.
I believe Angelina would play a good Cleopatra. Yes, Cleopatra was an African ruler and yes, the country she ruled is in Africa but that does not mean her skin color is black. Being a history major and a Black woman I have learned that skin color and label does not have to match.
Basic History Lesson:
Cleopatra was from the Ptolemaic dynasty that ruled Egypt. The Ptolemies were all descendants of Ptolemy I, a Macedonian general of Alexander the Great. The Hellenistic rulers of Egypt did not intermarry with the local population, so Cleopatra was of Greek (Macedonian) ancestry-NOT EGYPTIAN. This whole discussion is ridiculous.
They should get Rachel Weisz from "The Mummy" to play Ole' Queen Cleo... Shes beautiful, of color (somewhat), and to me looks Egyptian to a certain extent. I think she portrayed an Egyptian princess well in The Mummy, and i think she would do an awesome job again as Queen Cleopatra.
I can't believe they spoke of the size of her lips and stereotypes all African Americans.... even if it was another African American that did it.
But it should be an African to play an African.
Hey, since everyone is pointing out that Cleopatra was Greek, might I suggest an actress of Greek descent? What about Jennifer Aniston? : D LOL!
I didn't read the posts, however, for those who think that Cleopatra should be a woman of color, Cleopatra was of European extraction, she was the descendant of the Ptolemy dynasty who were Greeks from Makedonia. People read history......... It is not as North Americans say an excuse to justify certain actions.
I am an Italian and Cleopatria was from Italian descedent not African. Get your history straight. Stop palying the race card everytime you turn around, insecure insecure insecure. Why should Cleo be black? She was not black, again read your history before open your cards. I guess Lawrence of Arabia was black too? PLEASE GIVE US A BREAK! Angelina would make a beautiful Cleo and she will be perfect for the role. Is all about the race card!
You should get your facts straight too.
Cleopatra was GREEK and not Italian..read a history book first!!!!
Last I checked, Egypt is in AFRICA and ancient egypt never had a European looking woman as royalty. Then again, historical accuracy? Who cares about that!
OMG and you use a GREEK name like Zues? Check again because not only did Egypt have European rulers but Cleopatra was one of them and she was as pale as they get. Also ancient Africans didn't have Greek names like CLEOPTRA. Word the the ignorant.
First the cow getting punched in the face, now this. The ignorant racist black people are coming out of the woodwork this week in numbers to post on the internet!
I say racist because to you it's okay to assault an officer if he's white and you're black, I say ignorant because you have no clue of the history of your own continent of origin, and assume Cleopatra should be portrayed as black.
Please use your broadband wisely, and sign up for night school or something, instead of making yourselves look worse than you already do in the eyes of the world.
Now I am amused. So, calling a woman a cow isn't ignorant? Suggesting that a male cop punching her in the face instead of using the appropriate police tactics is okay? My, my aren't you angry? It sounds like you may be the racist one here buddy. The funny thing to me is how many of you have posted regarding Cleo's Greek heritage. How many times do you think it needs to be repeated. The truth of the matter is no one really knows. Having been of Greek descent doesn’t mean she looked Greek. She more than likely looked like what some call a mutt. I just had to respond to your post because it really was ironic that you wanted to point out someone else's ignorance.
HELL YEAH a black woman should play her! I saw her on TV and she looked African and headwrap and all that.
Wait... Who're we talking about? Not Miss Cleo?
Oh...
Do you think Jolie is the ideal Queen of the Nile?
Who really cares?
It is clear that Clorpatra was a woman of color. Why is this role not being offered to an actress of color?
It's clear someone didn't receive a diploma, of any sorts.
She was greek. Below is a link should you wish to educate yourself. I'm sure it was a wasted effort on my part but I tried at least.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleopatra_VII
Yuck!
uh... yeah... Cleopatra wasn't Egyptian... did the person writing this article think to remind people that not everyone from an African country is black. Why aren't more Egyptians mad? Why is this even in the news? AHHHHH and I read it!!!
I do believe she at least had some Greek in her blood. I know the matter isn't important to many people, but it bothers me that Hollywood can't use people of the right descent. If she was of Egyptian blood, then a black person probably wouldn't be appropriate, either. But this isn't the case. I know it's better for a film to use a more famous actor, but I don't give a damn about big names myself. I rarely watch movies with these types of actors. Maybe I'd consider it more if it had a no-name Grecian. I will probably pass. Which is a shame because it's some kind of historical film, and I enjoy history. But I guess Jolie is attractive, and looking at her face again, maybe she'll do a good job. I haven't seen her in costume, so I can't really say yet.
Blacks that are demanding Cleopatra be portrayed by a black actress clearly need to learn how to read and then apply that knowledge to history. Cleopatra was of GREEK descent.
Cleopatra is/was BLACK!!!!!!!
No, Cleopatra was NOT black. She was definitely a tan woman, but not black. Angelina fits the role perfectly. She may have to get just a tad more tan, but I think that the company made the right decision.
A woman of color...geeze...okay...how about that actress that played 'Precious,' then we could hold it in South Central Los Angeles instead of Egypt...rolls eyes
Actually, Cleopatra wasn't Egyptian by descent. Her bloodlines aren't from racial Egyptians. Unfortunately, if you trace her possible blood lines, she was most likely Caucasian. SHE was out of place in her time and where she was from.
Angelina would be an excellent Cleopatra. Cleopatra was beautiful, sensual, captivating, had the ability to captivate and entrance a Caesar, the ruler of the World, mystify, capture, hold, love, entice, a man,. a nation, the world. Who else but Angelina Jolie could play the role. No one can match her. For Caesar, I would say someone older, someone regal, like Anthony Hopkins. For Mark Anthony, I don't want anyone handsome. I want someone I hate, for all of his pomposity. I want Russell Crow, the conceited Bastxrd. He is the only one who can match Angelina on the screen. Anyone else would fade in the background, even her beautifully handsome husband.
Jolie as Cleopatra? Pitt as Anthony? HAHA!!!
I did the math, and if you take the budget from the 1963 version and updated it to 2010 dollars, they have around $320 million to spend. Would I go see it? NO!!
Why shouldn´t she? This isn´t The History Channel or a BBC historic re-enacted miniseries. It´s Hollywood. At it´s worse, probably. Stop complaining and get over it.
I was once assigned to do an illustration of Cleopatra.
I did some research. I quote from the historical reference..."She was black and ugly".
I reported this to the art director and asked what he wanted me to do.
He said..."Make her look like Elizabeth Taylor".
Clearly unlikely. Her mother was Cleopatra V (greek) and her father was Auletes (greek, from Macedon). Ugly, yes, if you've seen any of the busts that survive of her, and her enormous nose. But instead of using historical visual evidence of her features, you found this "history book" that in describes her as "black and ugly". ROFL. The "Dr" in your name just adds to the humor here.
There were, and remain to this day, a variety of castes in the middle east. Egypt, India, Iran (then, known as Persia), and the countries throughout the Mediterranean, all had a variety of skin tones in each of those countries. Cleopatra could NOT have been a black woman however, because she was of the Ptolemy family and they came from GREECE. People people...read abit before you start passing judgment.
everyone is upset about this but jolie already pulled this crap with "a mighty heart" where she literally wore black face to portray mariane pearl, since she's always trying to convince us she is a citizen of the world you would think she would be more sensitive to the lack of quality roles for women of color. but she is an actor and they universally aren't that bright and are self-absorbed, so not a shock.
I can't say I was aware of Cleo's Greek heritage. All I have to say on the matter is that even if Cleo truly was of Egyptian descent, casting a black person would be a terrible mistake. The Egyptian society was (and unfortunately still is today) rather intolerant towards people of colour, they were mostly enslaved and rarely held any position of power in the ancient realm. There are plenty of native darker Egyptians, but those of the north (where I believe most of the pharaoh's ancestry lies if my memory serves me right here) are pale. I myself am a blue-eyed, brownhaired, lightly tanned Egyptian. Although my eyecolour is a bit of an exception, the rest of my appearance certainly is not.
Its my understanding that cleopatra was not black and had royal ties to greece. I am not saying she was white but i am sure she was not black. Not that it matters as this is just a dumb movie.
Angelina, maybe you should be Halle Berry's lady in waiting since Billy Bob Thornton had to have a taste of her and she has a Best Actress Oscar, as opposed to your best supporting actress oscar.
Angelina, you're tired and over and go raise your 20 children, with your powerless lover.
The nerve!!! Next they will want a black man to play Michael Jackson! He died whiter than BO
Funny to debate all of this history. I think she would be a great actress for the role if they asked me.
Maybe someone else would make another choice, it's all good. If you don't want her, you can produce your own
version with the actress of your choice.
Wouldn't it be nice if one day we reach the point where the color of the skin doesn't matter or come up for discussion ?
Ain't gonna happen. Race is way more than skin color, which you've either not noticed or don't want to admit.
Getting beyond race is like getting beyond reality.
She doesn't have freckles. Aniston has a lot of those ugly things. Brad couldn't see her face without makeup, so he dumped her for Angelena.
Cleopatra with a valley girl twang. Yuk.
All of you are sadly mistaken! Cleopatra wasn't a real person! She was actually mad up by a group of sheep herders on a late night stroll. Tom Cruise was actually the last Samari and Pres Obama isn't in office , Optimus Prime from the transformers movies is! If you keep looking to hollywood for the facts, these are the types of things hollywood will tell you! Everybody , get a life, get off your tweets and your blogs and write congress about the oil spill and we won't tolerate BPs inaction! Gee wiz!
This was a silly argument made by someone who should have done their research. If you're going to raised holy heck about something, make sure you know what you're talking about. Didn't the author of the piece have a computer? How hard would it have been to Google Cleopatra's lineage??? I agree with the person who said the movie is for ENTERTAINMENT, not to be historically factual. So what's the beef? The author put her foot in it by not doing research, now she and her supporters sound ignorant. Cleopatra was NOT African, she was Macedonian; GREEK. The Macedonian Empire ruled Egypt at the time. That doesn't mean she had an ounce of Egyptian blood.
Cleopatra, never! I would guess a perfect fit would be Miss Piggy!
Really? Cleopatra African? Apparently some people don't read their history books. Cleopatra was a Ptoloemy of Macedonian descent. How does this make her black? And Angelina playing Cleo? Pleeeeaaaasseeee.. psh..
cleopatra was greek and they are not black. Sorry blacks, get another famous person to try to hijack
johnny –
Black people are not trying to hijack a famous person – even noted historians cannot agree if Cleopatra had any African descent. You could of express your opinion without trying to score a "dig" it would of had more merit.
Cleopatra was a member of the Ptolemaic dynasty, a GREEK dynasty that ruled Egypt. Cleopatra was of white/Caucasian descent.
Before arguing for or against Jolie playing an "Egyptian" Cleopatra, perhaps a quick read in history should be in order. There are plenty of web sites that argue over this same issue. Even if you are sure that you know the answer, you might want to just take a quick look at a historical site. Don't get me wrong, I know she was an Egyptian Citizen, born and raised in Egypt. LEGALLY she was Egyptian, It's kinda like how I'm an American Citizen born and raised here, just like my mother, even though racially we are of Mexican Descent.
If they pick Brat Pitt for Mark Antony, it would be hilarious if they picked Jennfer Aniston for Cleo. She actually IS of Greek descent, and it would really annoy Jolie, who kind of deserves to be annoyed for what she did to Aniston....and for completely ruining Brad Pitt. He used to look so healthy when he was with Jenn, and now he looks like a beaten down shell of a man, addicted to some kind of substance. Jolie has drained him, just like she did her previous "love" (I boubt she even knows the meaning of love...men are just a means to get more famous as far as she is concerned.)
lol. For those using a map to prove it, yes, Egypt is in the continent of Africa, but it is really more Mediterranean in climate and history, and for crying out loud its right next door to Saudi Arabia. Look at Europe for example, they are European but someone from northern Sweden is going to look much different from someone from Italy. Someone from historical Egypt (and of Greek descent) is going to look different from someone descended from Tanzania. Egyptians actually tend to look more Arabic in nature than Black. This is going to sound crazy to some of you, but not everyone in Africa is black, especially northern Africa. And Egypt was around way before it was decided that it would be part of an area called 'Africa'. lol, Angelina Jolie is probably a little lighter than Cleo would have been, but Cleo would have looked Greek!
cleopatra is a state of mind
cleopatra was hot
so is jolie
jolie is already cleopatra
The queen was only 17. Wake up!
Of course the people complaining wouldn't know that Cleopatra was essentially Greek and descended from the Ptolomies! This is all written in books! What an easily surmountable but sad condition. Fix our schools: they need to stop churning out nitwits.
Cleopatra was NOT black. Read the book "Not Out of Africa: How 'Afrocentrism' Became An Excuse To Teach Myth As History" by a real Eqyptologist, Mary Lefkowitz. Egyptian royalty married within the family.
Who is she? Isn't she married to Don Mattingly?
First off – CLEOPATRA CAME INTO POWER AT THE AGE OF 17. An OLD woman like Angelina would play her grandmother back in the day. Educated people are acutley aware of Cleopatra having killed her siblings as she helded her throne. She was a teen queen.
Find a young black exotic accress to fill these shoes. One who can pass for 17! Thanks.
It will FLOP with Angelina.
Why do people (like YOU candyland) have to pull the "racist" card when someone disagrees with you? So sick of that. Grow up, and find a new "buzzword", that one is way overused, and tired.
I never knew cleopatra was African.. oh wait, she's not. She's Eqyptian! I never once thought her of African American, I think most people think of her as maybe brown skinned since she's from Egypt.. not black. I don't understand the big deal anyway. I'm part african american and I'm not having a fit that she's might play the role. IT'S A MOVIE! It'll be in and popular for a couple of months and then fade away. It doesn't really matter!
Cleopatra was NOT Eygptian, she was Greek. So much for education in teh USA. She was the descendant of Ptolomy who was a Macedonian general under Alexander the Great (macedonians are very fair skinned Greeks) – who conquered Egypt. Ptolomy become Pharaoh after the death of Alexander... there were no Egyptians who were married into the Hellenistic Pharaohs – therefore Cleopatra was light skinned – probably more so than Jolie!
Well, morally they are very similar . . . both slept their way up the ladder. Brad might want to watch his asp!
As an Egyptian, I think Angelina Jolie would be a perfect pick. Frankly, only Sub-Saharan Africa is what people consider "black." The countries north of the sahara, including Egypt, Morocco, Tunisia, Algeria, Libbya, all look middle eastern and have features of middle easterns. We are sick and tired of "black african-americans" trying to claim Egypt for themselves, just because their ancestors came from the same continent. Tthat's like saying Canadians and Puerto-Ricans are all the same people because they are both from North America. Really, Essence magazine, get a life and some education to back up your comments.
How ignorant, Egyptian person. So the dark people only lived in the middle of the Africa? Stop trying to carve up and take the African continent. Your people are recent arrivals in Egyptian history.
I think Jennifer Aniston would be a better choice.
cast Kristen Schaal as Cleo–there is actually a resemblance. And then all you anal historians can have your true likeness. But then you'll have to look at Kristen Schaal for two hours.
And that's two hours you'll never get back. lol.
get a black woman to play the part. for once, be historically accurate. mel gibson had a chance to be historically accurate with his stupid Passion movie, and he failed miserably in not casting someone who would have actually resembled the historical jesus.
HELL YES
Tell me, for I must know, is ignorance bliss?
Dozens of people have already stated fact, and linked to it for you to read yourself, but instead you post this and make yourself look like an ignorant uneducated sod. Well, I guess it fits you wouldn't read the comments trying to correct you first.
There should be a setting in all browsers for ignorant black people who post in racially charged threads. I'm thinking popups that say "Do you really know this?" and "Have you done any research whatsoever regarding what you are about to say?". It would do wonders for your image.
Please tell me you weren't educated at Butler and STILL after all these posts think it would be historically accurate to cast a black woman as Cleopatra. Butler is such a fine school.
I couldn't care less who plays this part or even if they make this movie. What I am concerned about are the individuals on here who refuse to acknowledge what little information (and it truly is limited) we have in regards to Cleopatra. What can be confirmed is that she was from a Macedonian Greek family that preferred marrying relatives to secure the bloodline. Can this argument end? Please? If people on here are so concerned about historical accuracy, don't get your info from TV get it from historians.
Umm. You do know cleopatra wasn't black right? So why would you want a black actress playing her. Makes no sense to me.
You know who looks a lot like Cleopatra's image on the coin? Kristen Schaal.
They should close this controversy by casting HER.
Then will you historical literalists be satisfied?!
Angelina Jolie? Who cares if she is the right colour. She cannot act. Period. She looks very masculine too.
Cleopatra was not black, and not even an Arab Egyptian. Cleopatra was from the Greek Ptolomy Family. How did this make the front page of CNN????????????????????????????????????????????
Angelina Jolie looks like a real-life kewpie doll. She's no Elizabeth Taylor. Can we all get over her? The emperor has no clothes.
Read a book. Cleopatra was fair skinned. Having a woman of color playing her would be fine, but it would not be historically accurate.
Seriously? Who the hell cares. People get so wrapped up and offended about nothing. Let Whoppi play the role for all I care. It's a freaking movie.
Guess its ok to be racist if you are not white?
To whoever is against this on the basis of color, make your own movie and cast who you want as it. Until than it's no concern to you who they cast lol
Looking at her history and all the historical depictions she looks white to me. Don't see the issue
Try googling Cleopatra. You will find she was of Greek, not Roman, descent. She identified with her father and her Greek (white) ancestors. These facts are apparently not taught in the public schools.
Thank you everyone, I stand corrected. I've learned a lot here today.
I have to agree with the disgruntled here. Egyptians have always been brown-skiinned people–always. Because of its location on the planet, both Arabian and African people have populated it from the beginning.
There are so many truly beautiful brown actresses who could play this part regally. Also, I think the movie will bomb if Angelina Jolie gets the part since so many of us don't have a lot of respect for her.
As a teacher in urban schools for years, I have witnessed firsthand the attempt to make Cleopatra an African woman of color. I blame this mistake on the lack of knowledge that many people have with regard to history and the seemingly inability or simple disregard to find out the truth about a woman who was of Greek heritage since her family came from the Ptolmey line. The first Ptolmey of this line was one of Alexander the Great's generals who divided the empire up into sections upon the death of Alexander. Cleopatra was a direct relation to General Ptolmey and therefore was of Greek origin or, to be even more correct, of Macedonian origin. Having an African-American actress play this part might make a lot of people very happy but it would be historically inaccurate and work to perpetuate this myth which seems, unfortunately, to get stronger by the day. Let's keep history truthful.
Er, Cleopatra was actually of Greek ethnicity...people better read their history books...ethnic Greeks are not black but caucasian. Just people wanting to complain and cry 'racism' and look like fools in the process.
Cleopatra (as HIStory states) had to have been Roman Greek for two reasons (1) Romans where cleverly stealing from Africa during this time and (2) Hollywood won't ever make movies about the real AFRICAN QUEENS!
Egyptians are all races and all colors. Jolie is a great actress and casting her will mean the film gets watched, period.
I work with Egyptians, and they are both light and dark.
Let Halle Berry play the role of an African Queen. Case solved.
How is this Angelina Jolene's fault? If she is offered the role why should she turn it down. It's got nothing to do with how full her lips are or how many dark skinned children she has! It's about casting, acting, and what brings people to the box office which is $$$$$. It's ALL about the money and she's a big star that will bring in the $$$$. If you're going to BLAME someone, blame the director or whoever is doing the casting.
Cleopatra was NOT Egyptian. She was Macedonian/Greek. She was the descendant of one of Alexander the Great's generals. Additionally, most historians agree that she was not "pretty." In fact, she was slight and had a large nose. Her appeal was her intelligence and charisma. Because of that, Angelina is not a great choice as she is TOO pretty.
cleopatra was not black. she was ptolemaic, of greek origin. the egyptians however before that time were for the most part black. one only need read the histories by herodotus, the rawllinson translation, book two, chapters 103 – 106 in which he tries to figure out the origins of a mysterious group of people living on the black sea in europe. he says, "there can be no doubt that the colchians are an egyptian race... my own conjectures were founded, first on the fact that they are black skinned and have wooly hair."
OMG ! ! ! I can't believe the level of ignorance being displayed.
Does anyone know where Cleopatra was from? *wink*
Egypt was taken over by the Arabs. Thats why there are Arabs there now. Most of the land origninally controlled by blacks in Africa where either invaded or conquered by Arabs or Europeans. Study the first Dynasties of Egypt. The hieroglyphics and features depict an African culture of african people. White supremacy has always tryed to deny the evidence. You can fool some but not everybody, especially a black man who has studied ancient cultures and civilization. Greek history is ancient Egyptian history. Or for better words Kemetic knowledge.
Brush up on your Egyptian History, especially Old Kingdom.
Here is a simple solution that will make everyone happy. They should recast with Charlize Theron. Cleopatra was white. Charlize is African American. She's also an Oscar winning actress and hot as heck. Boom, everyone gets what they want.
This just in! Naomi Campbell, Thierry Henry, Lou Bega & Chiwetel Ejiofor are all white!
After all, last time I checked France, Germany, Italy & the UK were all in EUROPE.
(In response to the knee-jerk un-educated fools that keep squealing that "Egypt is in AFRICA!")
OMG ! ! ! I can't believe the level of ignorance going on here.
The fact is he history book are all lies. If you look at the paintings and the statues from that time period, all of the people have African features. The history books have always lied, when is comes to Africa. She was BLACK just like the rest of her people. I love Angelina as an actress, but come on. We have come so far as a people, there is no reason to take steps back. The reason this role should be played by an women of color is because Cleo was a women of color. When you state this is not a race issue, you are sadly wrong. Color is an issue everyday for people of color, because we are always reminded that we are not White. She was NOT Caucasian!!! That is the lie they want u to believe. They changed history so it was OK to enslave people of color for hundreds of years.
What are you some crazy conspiracy theorist? Facts are facts and coins made in her likeness which can't be faked, are obviously of caucasian features.
Sorry, but you have been misinformed.
You speak the truth. I think we are being outblogged here. I cannot even get my comments posted. What history book are these people reading from. I am tired of the lies out there, that is why the hieroglyphics lasted so long. It wanted to give evidence, because they knew the cover up that would take place hundreds of years later
Where ever do you get your info?
Libra this is exactly why many black Americans are viewed as uneducated, its with moronic comments like yours. Cleopatra was no black nOR an African. She was white European as her Greek name clearly shows her to be. Not many ancient Africans had Greek names like Cleopatra you know.
LET THE LIES FLOW. HOLLYWOOD'S FULL OF FAKENESS ANYWAY. BEYONCE WOULD'VE BEEN PERFECT FOR THIS ROLE AND BRAD PITT STILL AS MARK ANTHONY.
How come my post didn't go thru
Cleopatra's young brother was trying to merry her.......yea they were white most likely from Alabama.
I would like to remind some of the so-called bookworms of all colors on this board that Africans from the south did rule over Egypt at one point as well Africans from the North. Artifacts (statues, wall paintings, etc) confirm this. I should know because I've actually been to Egypt as well as many other African countries. THERE ARE EGYPTIANS EVEN TODAY THAT WOULD BE CONSIDERED WHITE OR BLACK!! This means that half of you don't know what you’re talking about, and the other half of you know even less that the first half. There are people on this board trying to argue in both directions in order to establish grounds for an argument of superiority or to refute inferiority when no one here has ancestors tied to Egypt, White American or Black Americans. There where European countries that were light years behind Egypt as well as African countries so what is the point? There were Sub-Saharan African and European countries just as advanced as well. Countries that developed significant cultures in our early history were lucky, nothing more. If your population was surrounded by fertile land, disease and plague free, and natural resources without a harsh climate you won! As for you clowns using your discount card at Barnes & Noble as some sort of point to prove superior intelligence, remember this; before there were lies and b.s. not to be believed on the internet, there was b.s. not to be believed in books....get over yourselves.
That is all fine and well...but the argument isn't about black egyptians having ruled or not...it is about Cleopatra being of greek heritage. I personally would never deny the black influence and participation of Egyptian culture...just as I would never claim Cleopatra was anything but Greek...
Stop re-writing history people...
Man, colored folks have just GOT TO GET OVER BEING BLACK. NOBODY CARES. Grow up
Cleopatra was of African descent because her mother was a black woman. Therefore, a black woman should play the role.
Charles Toussaint, you are 100% WRONG. Cleopatra's mother was no African woman and she was not BLACK. her mother belonged to the Ptolemaic bloodline there fore cleopatra had ZERO African black bloodline and she was NOT black. African American seriously need to go educate themselves based upon their ignorant comments on this subject matter.
HER MOTHER WAS BLACK??? Are you kidding me? Her mother was Cleopatra the fifth Trifena which according to historians was either sister or first cousin to Cleopatra's father , Ptolemy the fifteenth Avlitis. Also at the British Museum there is a statue of her head which depicts her as Caucasian. Get over it. Yes it's a shame that all over the world, through the history of mankind there has been oppression and foreihn rule and foreign occupation, whatever you wanna call it. It is however a fact. Yes Egyptians are africans but they weren't always ruled by their own.
They darken actor Gerard Depardieu to play Alexander Dumas in a film called "L' Autre Dumas". Dumas is the author of "The Three Musketeers", "The Count of Monte Cristo", and "The Man Behind The Iron Mask". Mr. Dumas was a French writer of African descent and he had dark skin.
Cleopatra was Greek in origin or what today is known to be Greek.
They darken actor Gerard Depardieu to play Alexander Dumas in a film called "L' Autre Dumas". Dumas is the author of "The Three Musketeers", "The Count of Monte Cristo", and "The Man Behind The Iron Mask". Mr. Dumas was a French writer of African descent and he had dark skin. So they cast Depardieu and painted his face dark and had him wear a fuzzy wig. Outrageous!!!!
The only way Black people will get to tell truth about their history is to start producing their own movies. Do you hear that Tyler Perry??? Stop waiting for mainstream hollywood to do and just go do it yourself.
How about we get Gabourey Sidibe to play the role? That'll keep blac...I mean, African Americans happy, Al ,Jesse people of size...blah, blah, blah.
the only race that has a true historically correct right to be miffed at this casting choice is the greeks. nia vardarlos as cleopatra? hmmmm....
Here we go again!! They darken actor Gerard Depardieu to play Alexander Dumas in a film called "L' Autre Dumas". Dumas is the author of "The Three Musketeers", "The Count of Monte Cristo", and "The Man Behind The Iron Mask". Mr. Dumas was a French writer of African descent and he had dark skin. So they cast Depardieu and painted his face dark and had him wear a fuzzy wig. Outrageous!!!! The only way Black people will get to tell truth about their history is to start producing their own movies. Do you hear that Tyler Perry??? Stop waiting for mainstream hollywood to do and just go do it yourself.
This is a joke, right? Jolie has no business playing Cleopatra who clearly was not of European descent. There may be light skinned people there now but there weren't at the time of Cleopatra.
Terry you need to go and get yourself an education. Cleopatra is a EUROPEAN GREEK name. so yes Cleopatra was not only European but during her life time there were light skinned people who were ruling Egypt given the fact Cleopatra belonged to the Greek tribe of Macedonians who were know to be very fair in color. Holy cow how stupid are you black African people. ?
Cleopatra was a Greek woman. She was not a native born African woman of color. Insisting a woman of color play the role is racist.
Hmm...like a chimpanzee playing Bush II?
Having watched the Discovery Channel's segment on Cleopatra, she was of mixed Grecian and Egyptian ancestry, which would preclude her from being a woman of color. Regardless, Angelina Jolie's talent and beauty would make her an ideal choice to portray on of history's most fascinating characters.
As an African American man I'm not going to attempt to be the spokesperson for my people (a role often filled by any given AA in any given setting) but let me just say that most of us really know she wasn't Sub Sah African and we don't care. @iactuallyread; that isn't true, Egypt was actually a blended state, with blended people, most very comparable to the genetic makeup of African Americans and Ethiopians. Sub-Saharan Africans (i.e. "black" Africans) did rule over Egypt for a time as well as Northern Africans (i.e. Arab or Caucasian Africans). The reason this is even an issue is simply because racism has done its best to disparage any sort of significant contributions Africans have contributed to our history (humans) as a whole. Our history has been stolen, destroyed or contributed to others over an over as recently as the 20th century (Elvis "The King of Rock & Roll"? c'mon). When the story starts with lies, this is what you get- arguing about history that isn't even relevant anymore.
I am from Middle East; and it always fascinates me to see how the American peoples argue of skin tone. As an arab and as a woman in Egypt many times, i would like to tell you we have every skin tone color there...olive, white as the snow, dark as black..please do some education for yourself, as for my opinion on this actress no i dont think so, but , I have never understood the Wests fascination with Cleoptra, she was not such beautiful woman, and whe was not known to be full blood arab, you can do this research on your computer...good luck and move on from skin tone...so stupid
Should we get Queen Latifah to play her??? Oh wait how about Lil kim...
I think Beyonce should play Cleopatra! Cleaopatra was half Macedonian and half Egyptian (Brown) mixed race, with father Ptolemy and an Egyptian Woman.
Oh great she going to come back from Egypt with another 87 adopted kids.
Wow, total fail. People obviously don't do their homework, as Cleopatra was not black. On top of that, a very large slice of african, and I mean native africans are not black. Basically 90% of northern africa is either arabic or leans strongly toward that distinction. However, given the new trend of being historically accurate. We now need to change the statue representing the raising of the flag on Iwo Jima back to reality. That is, 4 white men lifted that flag, not the seasame street melting pot they built that is a joke.
Cleopatra was the descendant of one of Alexander the Greats' four main generals who split up the empire after his death. Sooo .. Cleopatra was Macedonian. She was most likely not dark skinned. That said, who gives a darn what color the actress is?
Cleopatra wasn't black. She wasn't even Arab or a traditional North African Berber. The royal family of Egypt during this time was decended from Ptolemic Greeks, who conquored Egypt under the Greek Macedonian, Alexander the Great. Considering Angelina played Alexander's mother in Oliver Stone's 'Alexander' a few years ago, it makes perfect sense to take up a second role as a GREEK queen.
If, however, we were to become complete history nazis, the woman casted for Cleapatra should be a plain-looking Greek woman. Despite popular opinion, Cleo wasn't actually beautiful... rather ordinary...
So we should forget great acting and good plot and go with color and political correctness. Won't get my money.
Oh shut up. Liz Taylor played Cleopatra........and now So should Angelina.
Besides, the already have a Woman of Color in a starring role. She's married to Barack Hussein Obama.
To the NAACP, I say, shut up.
I see the rticle mentioned Mark Anthony as the lover of Cleopatra. Please note that should be Mark Antony, not Anthony.
Cleopatra is a woman of color. Not hollywood white! Yes we people of color come in different shades and figures with more than the nice full lips on some white girls. In those days, we had nothing other in film or TV. I won't waste my time or money on this farce.
I don't believe the white race understands that Black, Asian, Native American, Indian and Muslim women have alway felt unrecognized and very underrepresented in Hollywood. And it would bring more merit to this debate if each side for and against Anglie – would present their opinions/facts honestly without trying to score a "dig". For what I have read, no historian can conclusively pinpoint the skin pimentation of Cleopatra – so why not give a Black, Native Americian, Asian, Indian, or Muslim women a chance to act the part.
Give me a break – I suppose the critics will want the movie character to speak in the language/dialect that Cleopatra actually used.
By the way, why do all actors in Westerns and movies set long ago have perfect teeth? Why doesn't anyone speak out against that? Talk about historical inaccuracy.
Cleopatra's ancestors were Greek. Alexander the Great of Macedon and his entourage took over the place. The Ptotelmy Dynasty were known to inbreed to maintain royal bloodlines.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ptolemaic_dynasty
Common folks..........it's not like they're casting her for Rosa Parks. Next!!
Cleopatra was a Ptolemy, a Greek queen. She was not black. Can we get this through our heads and move on finally? Please?
Hooray for Hollywood! You can make people forget about serious issues going on in the world to squabble over who should portray a historical figure most only know about from previous Hollywood films. Doesn't really matter who portrays her; if they are a good actress, they will convince the audience. Yes, i could see Jolie doing a great job. I'd rather see the millions of dollars in production costs go to alleviate poverty or clean up the environment or something positive but movies provide money to folks who sometimes actually donate to good causes.
And another thing.. The Egyptians HATED THE BLACK NUBIANS.. They were Mortal enemies.. so why in the Hell would a Black Person be portraying Cleopatra Ptolemy???
I and the rest of you should know that egypt is of brown skinned people except cleo she was white, so get over it. i just hope that they will cast the rest of the people brown
Hello!
I understand your Concern about Blacks not playing the roles that they should in Movies.. BUT Cleopatra was not a TRUE Egyptian.. She was actually of Macedonian Blood.. her last name was Ptolemy.. she was the last decendent of the Ptolemy empire that came from the death of Alexander the Great.. so Angelina playing the role of Cleopatra is not really that far of a fetch,, seeing that she played Alexanders Mother in "Alexander".... Just Saying.. Thats why there are History Books...
Which history books are you talking about? – the ones that says, she may of had African/Egyptian bloodlines, or the ones that says she was 100% Greek. Even noted historians can't conclude she was 100% Greek.
whats wrong with Betty White?....she'd be great
When are we, as a society going to get away from treating people of different skin colors like their members of a different species? It's rather like Star Trek with Klingons talking about humans and Romulans. We need to move toward a color blind society where persons are treated as individuals rather than members of a group based on their skin color. None of this will end until that happens. It's sad that people can't understand this. It's a self perpetuating, evil cycle. Let anyone of any skin color audition for this role instead of reinforcing stereotypes.
Angelina Jolie has already won an Oscar. Girl interrupted (1999)
I don't think the white race understand that Black, Asians, Indian, Native Americans women feel slighted because – we do not feel recognized or represented in Hollywood. And the debate for and against Anglie would have more merit if both sides weren't in it for a " dig". For years it has been widespread that there was no conclusive evidence what Cleopatra's actual skin pigmentation looked like – so you can really go either way especially if Hollywood is presenting it.
Rosalind Harold, Cleopatra's skin tone only came into question in modern history. We have ancient depictions and descriptions of her skin tone being pale. The ancient poet Horace (65-8 B.C.) wrote that Cleopatra was as white as alabaster and another ancient writer Lucan wrote of “Cleopatra's white breasts were revealed by the fabric of Sidon... close-woven by the shuttle of the Seres.” So many ancient sources that talk about Cleopatra being white and yet we still have some around here trying to incorrectly claim she was some 'black/mixed' woman. Ludicrous.
OMG she looks like she's been rode hard and put away wet! She should look so good to get Cleopatra! If she gets it Brad will have paid for it. Lordy Lordy look who really looks 40! She's not much of an actress. I think we all know how she got her roles
I really could not care less.
History Lesson: Alexander the Great (Greek) took over Egypt. He built Alexandria, Egypt but soon after died in Babylon. When he died, Alexander's friend Ptolemy (Greek) became to leader of Egypt. Cleopatra comes from the Ptolemaic bloodline. She was Greek!
cleopatra was of greek descent. so why should she be played by a african-american
Cleopatra was Macedonian (a slavic people) and Jolie is part Slovak, another slavic people. So I do not see any issue with her playing the role of the tragic Queen. Even if she was part Greek, which may be the case, in either event she was of antiquated European ancestry, not African, as Eqyptians are.
As a person of African ancestry I wish black americans would get their facts straight. Cleopatra was descended from Macedonian stock. The Macedonians colonised Egypt and had simply maintained beliefs and artistical depictions for continuity with earlier Egyptian dynasties. And guess what Macedonians were not black. People need to just quit it.
Holy crap people she was WHITE, NOT BLACK. GET A CLUE.
I'm working on my thesis on Ptolemy and the Greeks and this page came up as the top page on Google!
I have been to Cairo, and seen thousands of Egyptians, and the vast majority have the appearance of a specialized variation on the Arabic racial group like many North Africans. There are certainly a few very dark skinned Egyptians, but it was not the norm by any means.
BTW Cleopatra absolutely had Egyptian blood, the Macedonians followed the standard practice of marrying the daughters of conquered leaders to give them blood ties to the ruling class, and this had been repeated many times by the time Cleopatra took 1/2 the throne.
Second Hieroglyphs are not pictures, they are symbolic picture writing, so you can not expect them to look like the people they are describing in other than a symbolic way, though I would surprised if there is not a picture of Cleopatra some where.
Incorrect, MuddyBuddy, Cleopatra did not have Egyptian blood because the Macedonians did not follow any suppose ' standard practice of marrying the daughters of conquered leaders'. All their records show they married other Greek-Macedonian royals and inbred among themselves. They didn't need to appease any native Egyptians, whom they kept at the lowest class citizens by the way. Ptolemy I is on record stating in fact that mixed race children would be an insult to European royal lineages like the Ptolemies. Let me know if you want his quote, I can pull it out for you.
egyptians were Black, until persian, greek, and romans took over.
The last time I checked the Crayola box of crayons, White was a "color". White is a color. White people are people of color. Therefore, all people are colored!!
I don't know why these people are complaining about Angelina Jolie playing Cleopatra. I think that she will be excellent. And besides its would be the first time a white girl has played the part. Think back to Liz Taylor.
Last time I checked white was a color.
Everyone know Cleopatra was white... RIght? Or maybe a muslim would be better?
.....and ..... if gene/dna tests reveal that Cleo and Jolie are of the same bloodline.. then its a win-win (bipartisan) situation.... man, I love politics!!!
Why does everything have to be about "black" and "white?" Whomever brings up color is simply a racist. Quite simply, I don't go to the movies for a history lesson. I go to see beautiful people telling me a story, and who more beautiful than Jolie?
That perfectly summed up my feelings on this entire discussion and any like it!
Quit whining NAACP, Cleopatra is not even portrayed as black by her own people so STFU.
How much you wanna bet Obama persuades congress with a speech of a 9th grader that at least 1/2 of BP's 20Billion $ should be set aside to set up a commission to determine racial status on both Cleopatra and Jolie ... then ask for a vote if hollywood should select a bunch of others candidiates (as long as they are democrats) for congress to vote on. Hey, its an election year!
Chut up all of you! Who care's. Stop watching movies, read a book
This is why I hate that Politically correct Bulls*** term "African American" to describe black people – it presumes that all Africans are black and that all blacks are africans. As far as I know my Jamaican ex boyfriend never considered himself "African" despite being very dark, and my current Egyptian born brown/tanned skin boyfriend is not black yet comes from the African continent (as does blonde white skinned Charlize Theron – and who cares if her ancestors are European, she was born in SOUTH AFRICA) are they they not "African American". Everyone gets offended nowadays and everything has to be politically correct! Cleo was most likely not black (I am sure Al Sharpton believes such a thing) but rather had a "tan" look, as mentioned from others, she was of Greek ancestry. However Liz Taylor (shockingly not black!) was a beautiful Cleo – Angelina is not fit to play such a role – it would be an insult to the beautiful and talented Liz Taylor.
What's the big deal? This is why it's called ACTING, people. Get a grip.
Lets see an autobiography movie with Oprah starring as Laura Bush!
Tina Fey should play Cleopatra...
Oh gimme a break! This is so ridiculous. Now we have wannabe casting experts from black magazines. You're making yourself look really foolish and ruining any reliability and credibility you may have had.
This article cites her lover as Mark Anthony. The correct, western spelling is Mark ANTONY. We are not talking about a Latino pop star here CNN!!!
Do I think Angelina Jolie would be an ideal Cleopatra? No way!
I don't think Angelina Jolie is an ideal anything.
is bout complexity of character and more dimensional personalities Angelina look like she is already reincarnation
of Cleopatra ,she is the Women of that magnitude.Adore her or hate her she did not give you more choices
Cleopatra was Greek, not Egyptian. In any case, Egyptians are of many races.
Let's see ... Yul Brenner played an Egyptian in the movie 'Moses' ... is/was Yul Brenner white, green, purple, or cherry?
All together now...YAWNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN
Egyptians weren't black.
If they want a greek actress, how about Jennifer Aniston
Jolie will be more than perfect but Pitt not at all Cliff Owen is much better choice
I am a die hard Angelina fan, but if I see one more white woman play a role that clearly belongs to a woman of color..I'm gonna scream! Does anyone remember Rachel Weisz in "The Mummy 2"? It was ridiculous! She was painted up, bronzed, and still white! Does anyone care that there are many beautiful actresses of color in Hollywood that get passed over for roles all the time? Do we always have to have a "Go To Girl" for a box office draw? There is Indira Varma, Frida Pinto, Tamala Jones, etc. Don't get me wrong, I hate having "Go To" Black women too. Halle's beautiful-we got it!! Beyonce is sultry-great! Rhianna....well, gyrates well. But I wouldn't want to see any of them play Queen Victoria!!
But that's just it: it's not a role for a woman of color. Cleopatra was of Greek descent. If Cleopatra actually were a woman of color, I would be right there with you in your aggravation. Years ago, many many MANY good roles for people of color were given to white actors. Yul Brenner played many of them, for some reason. Another terrible one was painting white actors with red pigment so that they could play "Indians" in westerns. It drives me nuts to see that, even though it happened so long ago. Those things bother me far more than a film being more historically accurate than our view of a certain historical figure.
She isn't right because she is just plain nasty!!! I Have never cared for her period. It isn't a matter of race I think any woman could play cleopatrat just dont have Jolie – YUCK she can go away forever!
just because we have a D*&*&* black for a President now you want a black cleo, get real u people it's hollywood, does not matter who plays her, you will still go and see the darn movie,
Angelina Jolie was selected because she is a fantastic actress and has an exotic look. So what if she isn't the same ethnicity as Cleopatra? She's allowed to have the role if she wants it because she's an actress and it's a movie. The world won't end if the ethnicity isn't spot on.
The ignorant complainers should actually do some research and learn some history before pulling the race card. Cleopatra was not a black native African, she descended from the Greeks. Amazing Essence.com doesn't employ people with at most high school level history knowledge or the most basic research ability. All they had to do was google Cleopatra. Of course they would never want the facts to get in the way of their agenda.
How the hell did Jake Gellenhall get casted for Prince or Persia..that dude is actually a White Jew...And the Part he plays is for Brown Muslim?
In this day and age we have some folks who worry about things that wont effect them in any way shape or form. Angelina I hope you get the role. Based on what you do with your humanitarian efforts and the family your raising...color isn't a concern. See you on the big screen!
Put your ear to the ground and you'll hear a ground swell of support for Miley Cyrus. l
If Stacey Schiff did better research, she'd know that Jolie already has an Oscar.
Cleopatra Philopator, last queen of Egypt, was a Greek woman who dressed in Hellenistic fashion and lived in a City founded by Alexander the Great. While she was one of the very few rulers of her dynasty that actually took an interest in the history and culture of the land she ruled, she was not an ethnic Egyptian or a person of color. The Ptolemies (her family) took great pains in keeping their bloodlines pure by practicing incestuous intermarriage, resulting in more than a few incapable, inbred monarchs along the way.
She was not a great beauty nor a seductress either, and that's my only bone about having Jolie portray her. The image of Cleopatra as a sultry man-eater who corrupted Mark Anthony was propaganda drummed up by Octavian/Agustus Cesar to justify his invasion and annexation of Egypt. What she was is an intelligent woman and ruler who navigated the turbulent tides of political change and had to deal with the rise of Rome as the new imperial power of the ancient world.
For anyone who thinks that dynastic Egypt were all caucasian is a victim of white washing. First, Africa is the cradle of civilization. And the people who originally populated that region of the globe were and still are melanin dominant. Not melanin recessive. The fact is that caucasian cant stand the fact that the greates civilization to ever exist, that we know of was founded by melanin dominant (black) peoples of the earth!
And the problem with black people is that they don't go to college and study world history. Cleopatra was not black, african, or "of color". She was a descendant of Greek rulers of Egypt. Yes, the Egyptian empire was built by Egyptians. But Alexander the Great (a greek white guy) conquered it, and it was ultimatley ruled by a greek (once again, white people) family for several generations. She ruled from ALEXANDRIA for christ's sake. You know, as in Alexander the great. The white bashing here is laughable at best. If you bothered to learn a little history you'd realize how stupid your above post makes you look.
I think Miley Cyrus get it.
Cleopatra was a Macedonian, descended from Ptolemy, one of Alexander's generals.
here everyone, this will solve all arguments (NOT)
http://www.isidore-of-seville.com/cleopatra/16.html
these are all historical images of Cleopatra, made during her lifetime and after.
OK, so blacks are still insisting that the ancient Egyptians, back in their glory days, were black. Fine. That would mean that blacks kept the Israelites as slaves. How about paying reparations? I didn't think so.
You know, folks, we have coins from Cleopatra's time with her image stamped on one side and Marc Antony's on the other. She was not a "woman of color" or even an African. Are people really this uneducated out there? Cleopatra was a descendant of one of Alexander's generals, Ptolomy, ie. a Greek. Read a book, for chrissakes.
A pretend person is a pretend person so who gives a s!!!t who plays the part if you asked jolie who cleopatra was i would make a safe bet she would not have a clue
There have been some DNA studies on a body that is believed to be one of Cleopatra's sisters and the DNA showed she had African DNA. It is foolish to think that race made much of a difference in the ancient world. Your culture was more important than race. It is entirely possible that Cleopatra was biracial and it wouldn't have made one iota of difference to the Egyptians as long as she behaved as an Egyptian. It was a long time from Ptolmy I to Cleopatra and many ethnicities could have been in her blood line. The only portraits we appear to have are from coins and descriptions (no one mentiones skin color) – she was no raving beauy but she was charismatic and very smart and that is how she should be portrayed.
The problem with those studies ( I assume you are talking about Asinoe) is that there is doubt if the body was actually that of her sister. The age of the skelton found in the tomb and supposedly that of Asinoe is that of a teenage while Asinoe was killed in her early twenties. There is also the question of whether she and Cleopatra shared both parents or only a father. It is very unlikely that Cleopatra VII would have received the throne if she were not pure Ptolemy. So even if the body used in these studies was her sister and had African ancestry it does not follow that Cleopatra VII did.
CRA there was NO DNA studies done on any body believed to one of Cleopatra's sister. For one the body the pseudo 'scholars' are claiming to be Arsinoe is NOT Arsinoe. the skeleton remains are too young that of a young teen girl to be Cleopatra's sister who died in her twenties. Secondly they based the suppose 'race' of the skeleton remains on nothing but the outdated method of skull size which any modern credible forensic scientist will tell you is dubious in determining the race of an individual. Thirdly the Ptolmies did not intermix outside their own kind. There is a famous saying by Cleopatra's ancestor, Ptolemy I, who says mixed race children ruling over European royal houses like the Ptolemies is a disgrace to their(Ptolemies) European roots. There were not other ethincities within the Ptolemaic bloodline BUT Greek-Macedonian. Neither Cleopatra nor any of her siblings had any 'African' DNA because they didn't intermix outside their own kind, they inbred to preserve their bloodline. And yes not only is her skin tone portrayed in busts but we have ancient sources that clearly state she had pale coloring, not black nor mixed brown or whatever.
How many non-Italian actors have played Julius Caesar? About a million?
You know, folks, we have contemporary coins from Cleopatra's time with her image stamped on one side and Marc Antony's on the other. She was not a "woman of color" or even an African. Are people really this uneducated out there? Cleopatra was a descendant of one of Alexander's generals, Ptolomy, ie. a Greek. Read a book, for chrissakes.
If you want a history lesson then go to the library (just not in Texas) and read about it. If you want to be entertained then go pay your hard earned money for a Hollywood production. It's a movie people. Movies are made to make money. How do you make money, you fill your movie with talented actors/actresses and beautiful people so the public will pay their hard earned money to go see it.
Go do something meaningful instead of complaining about acting roles. It's very pathetic how much people complain about. She's an actress, she got the role, get over it & go make your pwn success & stamp in the world instead of knocking someone else’s achievements.
You know I prefer black, but if you use the term African-American, then swith it around the other way cause if the truth be told most blacks in america have not even touched on toe on the continent of Africa, myself included. The closest I've been is Bahran and the UAE and that's not that close because there's this country call Saudi Arabia and a big old Red Sea between them. Oh yeah, the person who paid for that trip was my Uncle SAM!!!! American-African, I think i'll try to get on the ballot in California for a new name change. They put everything else on the ballot there!
Angelina is black on the inside, anyway.
Good one!
As an aspiring actress I have to disagree with casting Angelina as Cleopatra.Any other LA based actresses have any ideas where I can audition for stuff? I found one website on the web where you can audition for real movies (google i made a movie) but am having trouble finding any more... Any ideas would be greatly appreciated!
What? You're having a hard time auditioning? Tha's odd, I thought there was a shortage of actresses in Hollywood. Have you tried craigslist? D'Uh...
In Hollywood, it has and always will be about money, not ethnic accuracy. Which actress or actor is bankable and can sell movie tickets? That's who gets the part.
She was not African she was Greek! SAY WHAT!
Wasn't Cleopatra actually of Green heritage? I'm pretty sure she was more caucasian-looking than anything. I think they should try and be as true to history as possible.
I DON'T CARE WHAT PEOPLE SAY - CLEOPATRA WAS GREEK. THUS, CAUCASIAN - LIGHT-SKINNED. THAT IS A FACT. WHY FOLKS KEEP ON SAYING THAT CLEOPATRA WAS BLACK JUST MAKES ME SCRATCH MY HEAD! CLEOPATRA WAS PROVED TO NOT BE DARK-SKINNED AT ALL. SO PEOPLE, PLEASE LEAVE THIS "CLEOPATRA WAS BLACK" STUFF ALONE, ONCE AND FOR ALL.
AL IN LA
I am sick and tired of hearing all these dumb people bringing up color. You don't want people to discriminate then stop discriminating yourself. Ok only because you're from Egypt it doesn't mean you're black. I find it interesting that people keep claiming she was black when no one has ever seen her body. She was Greek so maybe she was a little tan from being under the raging hot sun. GET OVER IT!
Cleopatra wasn't African. She was a memeber of the Ptolemy family of Macedonia and completely of european ancestry.
Cleopatra was a Ptolemy – making her Greek. She actually had some middle eastern blood in her as well by marriages.
Yes, historically there were moments where Egyptian leaders were of color – but not in this situation. Besides, being Greek and middle eastern certainly lends itself to color as well.
Who cares? Who doesn't know Hollywood isn't concerned with making things identical or even close for that matter. Will Smith's son is "Daniel Son" in the new Karate Kid.
Jolie could play Cleopatra if she put on about 40 pounds. Also, why not have an Indian play cleopatra and Egypt is in Africa so does that makes Egyptian americans African Americans?
Also my college professor, an expert in Julius Ceasar, and therefore educated in Cleopatra history as well, said that Cleopatra may have been brilliant, but archeological evidence indicated she was buck toothed and quite unattractive.
If my memory serves me correctly.
Now that I think about it maybe Angelina is the right person for the role. Since Cleo and the rest of the dyNASTY were so into inbreeding, Angie would be perfect. Don't we have some video of her kissing ber brother open-mouthed on the red carpet somewhere???? Yeah I change my vote to Angie (I still think she's too old)!
At CandyLand....I don't think they read all your posts...your not racist, just real!
I just don't think she's a good actress. Other than that, whatever.
Cleopatra was the last of the Ptolemy's who were of Greek descent, not Egyptian so having an actress of European descent portray her in a movie is actually appropriate.
First of all – watch a little History Channel, people – Cleo wasn’t Egyptian – she was of Greek decent. Let’s get all our facts straight before we start accusing people of being racist. Second, I think Angelina would be great portraying her – I am black and I will definitely go see the movie. WHO CARES?!?!?!
Jennifer Aniston is half Greek, why not consider her for the part and REALLY stir things up!
Here we go again! Why is this always an issue? They can pick whoever the heck they want to hire for the role. It's a money business and on top of that, I think Jolie would be great in the role. It's 2010, remember?? grow up already and get over it!
I think is abhorrently racist to say that the race or nationality of an actor should affect whether or not they are elligble for a role. If a chinese albino wants to play Michael Jordan in a bigraphy about his life and can pull it off in an entertaining fashion they should be allowed and even encouraged to. (Ben Kingsley's amazing performance as Ghandi being a great example)
People should be ashamed of themselves for trying to tell people how to make art, this isnt a govenrment position where diversity in the role needs to be ensured or even protected. This is someone's living, breathing, contribution to the human condition and no one has any right to tell them how to make it regardless of whether or not it is a financially successful endeavour.
Honestly, for shame.
If black people want black people in movies...start your own company, write your own screenplays and do it. You do not have ownership or control over white peoples creative liberties and destiny. Create your own or shut up.
Maybe Tyler Perry or Spike Lee will do a movie about Cleo. Then everyone could crying about the white actresses in hollywood.
John A had it right, she was Macedonian, which was Greek, all family members married each other, and she herself was the only one of her family to even speak Egyptian. She was not beautiful, but was enchanting, very intelligent, spoke 9 languages and had a beautiful voice. Really hoping to see a more truthful biopoc rather than hollywood glamour pic. I don't care who plays her as long as they do a good job.
Angelina is beautful and would do a great job in this role!
Simple historical fact. All the rulers of the final dynasty of Egypt (and this includes Cleopatra) weren't Egyptian, they were greek. All were desended from Ptolomy, a General in the armey of greek, Alexander the Great, who conquered Egypt. The Greeks of that final Egyptian Dynasty all married other greeks, not Native Egyptians.
So if African desended people are anxious to see the movie portray Cleopatra accuratly, then an African desended actress can't play the role. If African desended people still want to see an African Actress in the role, then they aren't intersted in accuracy, only in their on racist agendas.
To the producers I say; Check your history books, get it righ,t and don't yield to black racisim.
LHampton: The unfortunate part about your post is that it is highly disputed. Cleopatra's mother is usually identified as her aunt, Cleopatra V, daughter of Ptolemy IX. Her mother is also unknown; Cleopatra V was not the daughter of a royal wife, but it is not known if her mother was another Ptolemy relative or a concubine of Egyptian or Semitic African or black African background. Sadly, if she was the child of a concubine she would not have been able to that the throne, so that lead us to believe that she was more likely of Ptolemy background.
I live near an embassy and went to school with plenty of modern Egyptians. They look caucasian, but with a skin color neither "black" nor "white." I think Jolie is an excellent choice. She's exotic, had queenly stature, and attractive to men, which is part of Cleopatra's claim to fame. I'd definitely check out the movie if she stars in it.
Jolie descends from Canadian Indians (natives), so she is not "white" according to the categories used here.
So many people with a PhD in anthropology and history... I think everyone who made a post should try out for the part or at least produce your own movie on Cleopatra. That way we can decide on which ethnic version we want to see.
Yes, Cleo was not a Black African she was Macedonian or Eastern European descent. The Northern Coast of Africa has been populated by Semitic peoples for several thousand years. Just because a country is on the continent of Africa doesn't mean the citizens are Black Africans. Sub-Saharan Africa population is mostly Black African. The true Egyptian Pharaohs that built the Pyramids were Black. The ancient Egyptian Empire was conquered in its later years by several invading peoples in its long history, the ruling classes changing race regularly in the late empires. One must read history to understand these things. Black African Egyptians built the pyramids and established the first truly great civilization, take pride in that, don't try to rewrite history. And by the way, Hannibal wasn't Black either he was a Phoenician born and raised in what we call Spain, he was Semitic in race, darker skin true but not a Black African.
My ex-roomate was a Coptic Egyptian. Copts pride themselves on being the DIRECT decendents of the Egyptians who built the pyramids. They are not black, nor are they arabic or Muslim. They are a minority in their own country. Look it up, people!
It's about money. Jolie will make them money.
Or maybe Morgan Fox. Who care about accuracy, it's Hollywood!
OH NO! Now we have to listen to Cleopatra howl that horrible howl Jolie always does in the movies! I am truly sickened by the thought of that.
Nationality does not determine one's skin color.
What a bunch of idiots. Cleopatra was not black......she was of Greek decent!!!! Try studying world history instead of being offended over such bullsheet!!!!!!!
Maybe there will be a cameo of the Tomb Raider
Egyptians of all shades of colors she is a GREAT Choice!!!! Very Exotic and Beautiful!!!
Just for emphasis: She was Greek!
This is beyond stupid. Ancient Sub-Saharan Africa can not into historical Northern Africa. The Ancient Egyptians weren't black people. Neither were the Ptolemies. Now go to the library and lern 2 history, or just QQ some more over your delusional fairy tales and historical revisionism.
I'm less bothered by the questionable ethnic accuracy of this casting choice than I am by the fact that we'll be subjected to this overexposed woman's questionable talent in yet another film.
A little history:
SONYLEGEND quoted Plato as saying Egyptians were very black. Plato was Aristotle's teacher and Aristotle was Alexander's teacher. Ptolemy was one of Alexander's generals. Plato's comment was well before Ptolemy's Greek family ruled Egypt. The people Plato called Egyptians could have been Nubians.
Mary made a comment about white people in South Africa. Whites didn't make it to South Africa until the 1400s when Vasco Da Gama hit the beach. The Dutch brought the most whites to South Africa in the 1800s. South African whites didn't have any influence on ancient Egypt.
I'm glad our world has started accepting all people mixing with all people. I just wish it would happen faster.
I think Angelina will be great – so will Brad Pitt. Just don't cast Billy Bob Thornton as Julius Caesar!!!
Skin color aside ... Angelina Jolie? Ugg.
Jennifer Anniston should play Cleopatra, she is definitely Greek. Angelina Jolie's own money will produce this film, EGOTISTICAL VAINNESS!
One name comes to mind......well, two maybe.
Beyonce
Vivica Fox
both are much better choices.
Skindeep, how are blacks like Beyonce and Vivica Fox much better choices to play a white historical figure like Cleopatra? How stupid are black Americans? Do you people even realize that Cleopatra was NOT African NOR an Egyptian? That she had ZERO black blood in her? That she came from a white European Dynasty, the Ptolemies who inbred to preserve their royal Greek-Macedonian roots? That they viewed native Egyptians and anyone who wasn't Greek as inferior to themselves? Do people even realize that the Ptolemies set a system in place that was similar to the aparthy system of South African? Do they? Danm. The uneducated public of America.
Cleopatra was Greek. This is a fact. Greek women are not black. Greek women are GREEK. So if you want Cleopatra represented fairly, go find a greek actress.
Greek women are smoking hot, all Mediterranean women are hot
Cleopatra was Greek, not African. People need to get their facts straight.
If Angelina is going to look like the mostly nude statues of Cleopatra, then I am definitely going to see this movie. Then again, the head bust of Cleopatra was not so flattering. Either way, Angelina will do a great job, even if Cleopatra was less than perfect in the looks department.
Dude, they should have the girl who played Anck Su Namun in the movie The Mummy & the Mummy Returns..ummm ... Patricia Valesquez she's always looked super Egyptian when they had her dressed up like them. she would be better then Angie. Sorry but I just don't like her.
OMG i loved that movie and that chick is perfect!
The woman who played that character was not Egyptian either. She was from South America – Venezuela. I am more interested in seeing if they will have her use an English accent like she did in Beowulf. For some reason in American film – if you are showing ancient Egypt, Greece, etc you always use an English accent. P.S. Cleopatra VII (the famous one) had absolutely no African or Egyptian blood. She was 100% Greek and insanely inbred. She only had 4 great-grandparents.
If a black woman were going to play Cleopatra, Hallie Berry would be the perfect choice.
Beyonce would be a better choice
I agree. Or maybe that beautiful girl who was in Slumdog Millionaire. It doesn't even have to be someone beautiful-just a believable fit for the part.
Black is a reace of people, African doesnt mean you are big lipped and black as tar. African merely means you come from the continent of Africa ! Geesh this is freakin ridiculous !
I think that the actress is chosen based on the paying audience going to see it, not to "whiten" the screen. That does happen, definitely, and the audiences who did go see movies knew the actresses listed. Who will bring in the biggest box office?
I'm curious – who else do you think could play it (no sarcasm here...it's genuine question) that could bring the star power to it?
Hey Lola: Cleopatra was a white greek, doesn't matter where she lived.
Cleopatra was most certainly WHITE! I saw all the Cleopatra movies, and it is obvious. Do your homework and see the movies!
Yes it is true that in all likelihood Cleopatra was completely Greek. However, this is something that anyone should discover based on research. Assuming that a historical figure looked the way he or she is portrayed in a movie is highly illogical for so many reasons.
so let me get this straight, Cleopatra was Greek. It only took 1,000 posts for you all to beat that dead horse.
Anyone ever hear of "South Africa"? I think Nelsen Mandela pretty much proved not all people from Africa are white.
Sorry. I meant not all people in Africa are "black."
movies are a business not a history book, it will make more money this way
Wait a minute here, folks Cleopatra was Egyptian, so shouldn't she be played by an Egyptian actress? Why is it a "woman of color" vs a woman void of color? Shouldn't the part be given to the actress who can best portray the character all the way around? It really bothers me that the representation of Cleopatra in a MOVIE boils back down to a race and color argument. For Hollywood and its investors, its about bringing $$ to the box office, not about representing a historical character to the T. That's Hollywood – don't act so surprised and angry that they're talking about choosing Angelina.
Can you read?
Um, hello EVERYONE – movie making is about MONEY – duh. It's about making a blockbuster movie and finding a denominator that appeals to A LOT of people and making lots and lots of money. It's not about history and its not about the facts. Besides if this was a painting – no one would tell the painter what colors to use to make the picture. The artist gets to pick. If you don't like it – then don't go.
Cleopatra was part greek and part egyptian, if memory serves. She she be olived skinned with lush blackish hair. Her olive skin tone would be enhanced by the egyptian sun, hence forth darkening it. Angelina from a physical point of view would fit the build nicely without too much makeover. To have a woman of color play this part is obsurd, she would have to be very light skinned with a very good weave. Beyonce would be a good fit maybe.
Red haired, actually.
Dave you are the closest to being correct. Cleopatra in fact had no Egyption blood in her at all. She was Greek. She had pale blonde hair which she had dyed with dark henna on a regular basis and then wore eloborate plated wigs. I know there are many communities out there that want their ethnicities to be potrayed accurately, and in this case AJ could probably do a good job. I do wish everyone would do a little historical research before climbing upon their soapboxes.
Black people need to get over themselves. Are you really being upset that Angelina Jolie is playing Cleopatra? First off, Cleopatra was not African! She was Greek!!!! Her first language was Greek and she had to learn Egyptian. Second, even if she was Egyptian, Egyptians come in different shades so if they want to use Angelina Jolie, so be it. She is a very good actress and she helps ticket sells. Third, it shouldn't even matter the race of the actress... it is just a movie!!! Stop trying to have a reason to call Al Sharpton =)
Look up actor. Rami Malek. He's Egyptian.
He is Arab Egyptian. That is like saying all Americans are white. White people came to America and took over in terms of population, but they were not the original Americans; they are unwelcomed migrants, same thing with Arabs.
The truth is that no one knows for sure the race of Cleopatra. Yes, her father was Greek but there is no proof of who her mother was. It is not unheard of for the mother to have been a concubine. The BBC even did a study that suggested that she could have some African heritage based on the skull x-rays they did on Cleopatra's sister. I think the disturbing thing is that since we don't know, why not have a brown skin woman from that region to play her. I really like Angelina but I would rather a lesser known actress like Zuleikha Robinson or Thandie Newton to play the part. What's wrong with a mixed race woman playing her. There were assumptions made when the likes of Elizabeth Taylor had the roll, why not make it more authentic with an actress that looks more like those in the region. Race will continue to be an issue as long as Hollywood and society ignores it.
You are so wrong it's not even funny. Cleopatra VII, whom we are talking about here, was the daughter of Ptolemy 11 Neos Dionysos and Cleaopatra V. They were BOTH from the Ptolemaic Dynasty who ruled the region from 51-30 BC. You need to do some reading before you try and play the intellectual superior card.
Maybe she can get a really nice tan. THEN!!! She can be the dude, playin the dude, disguised as another dude!!!!!!
Hahahahha!
Yea, like perhaps Opra or the gal who plaid Precious. Zoe Salandra is a good choice but this story would not have enough action for Zoe.
Cleopatra VII was Greek, descended from the Ptolemy line. She was not a woman of color, Period. The Ptolemy's kept their line clean by marrying brother and sister throughout the lines history. Anyone suggesting she should be played by a person of color is ignorant of Egypt's history. Egypt was only ruled for a short period by Africans, Egyptians were Caucasians. Besides, comparing Jolie to Elisabeth Taylor is like comparing coal to Diamonds, read the sentence in order.
Ed,
You are not correct. Check your history. Some of the dynasties were not "white".
PS again.....Egypt does not truly consider itself politically or culturally part of Africa, but rather part of the Middle East. Any Egyptian will tell you this. They see themnselves as the moderate Muslim power broker/mediator in the Middle East.
CANDYLAND: YOU NEED TO GO THERE AND STOP BEING SO BITTER. NOBODY CARES! ITS A MOVIE!
BESIDES, CLEOPATRA WAS GREEK. JUST DO EVERYONE A FAVOR AND DONT GO SEE THE MOVIE WHEN IT COMES OUT. I PERSONALLY HATE 'LOUD MOUTHS' IN THE THEATRE.
I agree that Angelina Jolie should not play this role, but it doesn't surprise me that she got it. The history behind these types of movies has always been "lets tell the story as accurately as we can, but when we cast it lets make the most MONEY we can" It's really just about making money, not about portraying history correctly. Reminds me of old cowboy movies where the white actors would make themselves look darker, wear wigs, and talk really 'simple like" to pretend like they were real Indians. What did you expect them to do with a movie like Cleopatra, (to do it right this time) not even close! Maybe one day somebody will get it right.....
Cleopatra was a Greek people. Look it up in history. The Greeks took over Eygpt at that time. She is also painted as having light/tan skin. If we were doing a movie about the Nubian reign, then yeah, have at it. Egyptians were all races. They took great pride in their diversity. During their nationalist beginnings they described themselves as having brown/red skin but eventually everyone was mixed together. But Cleopatra was around during the Ptolmy reign.
All you have to do is Google actor Rami Malek to see what Egyptian looks like.
As a professionally trained actor, there's nothing I can't stand more than others trying to impose limitations on which actor is a better fit for a role. Skin color here is irrelevant, I want the part to go to the actor who can bring the most to it, regardless of what she looks like. We are actors after all, and therefore transformation is our specialty. The public is more interested in what the character stood for and represents than whether or not she is played by a black or white woman. Let the part go to the person who can best do it justice. A straight actor doesn't have to play gay, etc. It's called ACTING for a reason.
PS.
Nor was Cleopatra Greek. She lived during the time of Greek and roman rule in Egypt, but she was not Greek or roman or Black. Again people, read some real history, and NOT on Wikepedia
News Flash. Although there are some very dark Egyptians (Nubian), Cleopatara was not Nubian. She was from northern Egypt. I lived in Egypt for a year, and know the history. Individuals who feel that Cleopatara should be played by an African American, do not know Pharoanic history at all.
People can be upset all they want, but Hollywood is about green (money) and not color. I work in the industry, so this I know to be a fact. At this present moment, there are no bankable African-American women in Hollywood. And when I say bankable I mean 100 million + at the domestic and international box office. If you were investing your money what would you do?
The Ancient Egyptians portrayed themselves as being olive skinned, the same as other Mediterranean cultures. Here's a picture comparing Syrians to Nubians to Libyans to Egyptians.
Do a google image search for "Egyptian Nubian" and you'll see paintings done by the Egyptians themselves comparing their skin color to sub-Saharan Africans and Middle Easterners.
Plus, Cleopatra was Greek. So all the African Americans raising a stink about how Cleopatra is being portrayed as white are simply betraying their ignorance of African history.
Wake-up, it's just a movie. People need to be concerned about the lost generations of Black youth. The recent attack on the police officer who was trying to give a ticket to a Black teen-ager shows how far Black leaders have let things go. We need more Black leaders like Bill Crosby.
This article and thoughts similar to it are the reason that racism still exists in our society. People don't care what the color of anyone's skin is anymore. If minorities would quit bringing it up it would go away.
Lola, if that's the case, then why is it people from Canada are Canadians & people from America are called Americans? Just beacuse of Egypts location doesn't make it's people Africans.
If we can see Will Smith as James West, Cedrick 'the Entertainer' as Ralph Kramden and Barack Obama acting as the President then way not a white Cleopatra? It is Hollywood! We are all just too PC these days.
I was under the impression that historians believe Cleo was of greek ancestry.
You know what gripes me – the EGO on this person. Every morning she sits down to think about how attractive she is. Then she buys properties about beautiful women and casts HERSELF in them. Between movies she hand-picks beautiful children, or men with perfect genetic material to make them with. She has alternately incensed and bored me constantly, ever since she first put the bottle of Billy-Bob's blood on a chain around her neck and called it love.
this is bs first of all i love angelina but seriously she is not the right nationality and i am white so this is crazy that they are having a white person play this part
Sophee lee, Cleopatra was Greek, that would make her what you call white. What race do you think she should be? They have pictures of what she looked like http://www.michellemoran.com/CD/cleo.htm
Cleo was black? Egyptian's are of many color......light to darker in skin tone....Angelina would be perfect I think in this role. Nothing like a little brozer to darker her pale skin tone!
Are you standing right in front of me suggesting blackface?
Um, again pale skin tone is what Cleo would have wanted... but apparently she was also heavier than Angie!
Just to make this known, Cleopatra was not African, she was macedonian (hence Greek) and I find ignorance of people demanding that she should be played by an african american actress so amazing. I mean really, I understand the point of having people of the same race play the part but she was not african, or black or such, She was Mediteranian. So please people stop being ignorant
If you read real history, not the politically correct revisionist, you will understand that Cleo was Greek descent from the Orginal Potolemy and that AJ with a tan looks like MANY egyptians. Check the historical record. It's tan people, not black
To all of you who said Egyptian rulers were Egyptian, think again, they were Greek. Egypt didn't rule itself for years. There's a lot of twisted history around the Mediterranean sea. Get over it eitherway, if there had been a "woman of color" more fit to play the role that would've brought in the cash flow Angelina will bring to the movie they would have picked her. You guys are forgetting they're after money and Jolie's a known name, she'll bring people to the movie, and that's all Hollywood cares about.
Cleopatra was NOT AFRICAN. She ruled an African empire but she was ethnically GREEK. Greeks are EUROPEAN. In other words, Cleapatra was white.
I really wish people would read a bit of history before becoming OUTRAGED at reality.
Yo lol@my~ , your right except she was more Greek than Roman
I don't care what color Cleopatra was I'd rather not see Angelina_jolie in any movie and If Brad is going to be in the movie lets have Jen play the part! Id love to see that!!! Then see how Angelina feels having another woman all over her husband!!!!
now that would be something to see and talk about!
I would think if someone wrote the book, had the rights, they can choose who they want. Angelina would be great. It is entertainment folks.....
We're all African. Demanding that the actress be black is racist.
I think all of you people are ingnorant... ITS A MOVIE PEOPLE!!! what difference does it make who plays the role of cleo. hollywood is going to strip and change all that they can about the actual history of her to make it more interesting and to sell more at the box office anyways so why are all of you getting your panties in a bunch?? none of you are going to be making any money off of this movie and this movie is not going to pay any of your bills so why are you all so upset?? i think all of you took it way past the general story of this article and made it into a mini race war about whos not white enough or whos not colored and or black enough, and to think that there is still racism going on in the world today is crazy to me.. me being the multi-racial person i am ( being of algerian, chinese, korean, and italian decent) i believe that most people living now days are multi racial.. being they are italian swedish and danish mix they may still consider themselves "white" or being egyptian greek ghanese or what ever they may consider themselves "of color" or whatever. its very rare to find a 100% black person or a 100% white person and if so where do they come from? so for people to still pull the race card people should really check their family ancestory before they try to call someone too "black" or too "white" or too "of color" or not "black" enough or not "white" enough or not "of color" enough. its all ignorant to me now.
Amen! You said it ten times better than I did!
Elizabeth Taylor may not have looked Egyptian anymore than Richard Burton looked Roman, but they both delivered incredible performances nonetheless. I have seen Caucasian men play Othello quite expertly as well, so it isn't about the color of a person's skin or their background, it is about the meat and potatoes of the performance. Angelica Jolie is one of the best actresses of our time, and I have no doubt that she would bring forth all of her considerable talent to the role of Cleopatra and do her justice.
Good to know I am not white. Seriously, Essence. You look pretty frickin stupid right now.
Cleopatra was NOT descended from the ancient phaorohs of Egypt. She was descended from one of Alexander the Great's generals who inherited Egypt when Alexander's empire broke up. She was of Greek descent. The ancestors of Cleopatra did not intermarry with non-Greeks. They considered them barbarians.
Of COURSE this would be made racist. Can any of you reverse racist idiots assume for one minute that Angelina Jolie, who by the way has been voted as the most beautiful woman, was hand picked to play Cleopatra because Cleopatra was hailed as one of the most seductive and beautiful women to have ever lived. No, I guess you wouldn't. Get over it. No one cares what color skin is anymore. Quit living in the 40s.
The only thing African about Cleopatra (any of them) was that she was born and lived on the continent of Africa. You might as well say a New England yankee WASP or a Navajo are both Eskimo because they are all from North America.
Her family was descended from the tight Greek/Macedonian ruling group that came with Alexander (remember Alexandria?) centuries before. Her cultural and ethnic background was 99% tied to Greek culture, with just enough local blood for her family to claim the throne through inheritance and not just by conquest.
Ah, we know the lineages of the Ptolemids, no blacks whatsoever. Maybe she was an alien, however....The first Ptolemy was a "hare," maybe that means alien...
Egyptians are not black! I think Angelina would make a great Cleopatra..she is such a great actress!
I know that history says the Cleopatra was Greek but that doesn't make it so. When you have racist white historians controlling the depictions of people they can say what they want. White people often change history due to their need for supremecy. Egyptians are colored people especially back then before there was race mixing. Pure, real Egyptians are African people with dark skin. Africans come in different shades and hair textures. Think about it. Everyone in Africa according to history is depicted as black but suddenly in the middle of Africa, where Egyptians were kings and queens and powerful and discovered Geometry and built pyramids, no these people were white, in the middle of Africa. Yeah right. It doesn't make any sense to me. History books in this country also don't show that black people as creating or inventing anything, just as slaves. This isn't true and blacks have contributed to society but with white supremist running things and trying to keep every other race down, you won't hear the truth. I would like to see someone of color play her, not Angie. I'm sick of her already. She's not the only actress in the world. I am of mixed race btw.
Not quite, Carol. Have you been to Egypt and met a "true" Egyptian? I have. They are Middle Eastern, likely descendants of the peoples of Sumeria and Mesopotamia. They look Arab, not African. I hate to break it to you, but Northern Africa borders the Middle East and the Mediterranean and the whole continent doesn't look black. It is mixed. And Cleopatra was a Ptolemy, which was a Greek family that was given the land of Egypt by Alexander the Great (a Greek).
Holy cow. Carol when are you black people going to get it though your heads that Cleopatra was NOT Egyptian? She was a GREEK as history and evidence clearly tell us she was. She was as white as her Greek name,just because her Dynasty ruled Egypt didn't make them Egytpians and for the record when the Greek Ptolemies conquered Egypt the country wasn't even ruled by Egyptians, it was ruled by PERSIANS. Please go tlearn some history. Cleopatra and the Ptolmies were white Europeans who viewed native Egyptians as inferior to themselves. The ancient poet Horace (65-8 B.C.) wrote that Cleopatra was as white as alabaster and another ancient writer Lucan wrote of “Cleopatra's white breasts were revealed by the fabric of Sidon... close-woven by the shuttle of the Seres.” So many ancient sources that talk about Cleopatra being white and yet we still have idiots around here trying to incorrectly claim she was some 'black/mixed' woman. Ludicrous.
Carol your statement "racist white historians" is a racist statement. I am sure you don't think black historians are racist, you don't think that could happen do you?Which white historian do you think is racist? Or are all white historians racist? You think white historians are favoring north africans over black africans? Why?
Cleopatera was the decendant of Ptolemy I Soter, one of Alexander the Great's generals. She was certainly not Egyption or Black.
Cleopatra's mother 'was African'
Elizabeth Taylor's European Cleopatra persists in the public imagination
Cleopatra, the last Egyptian Pharaoh, renowned for her beauty, was part African, says a BBC team which believes it has found her sister's tomb.
Queen Cleopatra was a descendant of Ptolemy, the Macedonian general who ruled Egypt after Alexander the Great.
But remains of the queen's sister Princess Arsinoe, found in Ephesus, Turkey, indicate that her mother had an "African" skeleton.
Experts have described the results as "a real sensation."
The discovery was made by Hilke Thuer of the Austrian Academy of Sciences.
"It is unique in the life of an archaeologist to find the tomb and the skeleton of a member of Ptolemaic dynasty," she said.
They were real people and not the semi-mythical figures portrayed by Richard Burton and Elizabeth Taylor
Archaeologist Neil Oliver
White people stop lying to yourselves.
She was part Greek and part African. Nothing surprising there, since "black" influence in Egypt was certainly present during its declining years. Egypt in its prime was most certainly not black.
Blacks should stop lying to themselves, which might be a hard habit for them to break.
Lisa stop lying to yourself. that bogus Fictional BBC News article is based upon the wishful thinking of some modern pseudo 'scholars' and NOT historical facts. Neither Cleopatra NOR her sister had an 'African' mother. For one, the suppose skeleton remains in that tomb are NOT of Arsinoe given the person in that tomb is too young to be Arsinoe. Arsinoe was in her twenties when she was killed, the person in that tomb is a young girl in her teens. Even Thuer who worked on the project was bothered by this. Secondly the way these 'researchers' came to their conclusion of the person's 'race' is based upon the outdated cranial index, i.e. skull size, that is not used anymore by any credible forensic scientist to determine a person's race because of its unreliability. The Ptolemies did not intermix outside their own Greek-Macedonian royal lineages. There is absolutely no credible evidence to support any mixed ethnicity of Cleopatra or her sister. This bogus mixed ethnicity claim is a modern invention. Ancient sources and evidence do not support any such claim. Cleopatra's grandmothers and her mother are both known. They both belonged to the Ptolemaic bloodline. They were not black African nor Egyptian given the xenophobic tendencies of the Ptolemies who inbred to preserve their royal Greek-Macedonian bloodline, they surrounded themselves with Greek royals, upper class and ruling elite. The Ptolemies sometimes inter-married with other Greek-Macedonian Dynasties but tended to prefer to inbred among each other. It is sometimes unclear which child was born from which wife, but the wives were all of the Greek-Macedonian lineage. Their numbers after their names might not be certain but their genealogy is not in question, what we are certain of is the fact that they were all Ptolemaic princesses or queens. For the record, their numbers is a modern creation, the Ptolemies did not have numbers following their names, and this is what has caused a lot of the confusion of which wive is which, at times different modern scholars would assign different numbers to the same king or queen.
Or they could pick a good actress.
Egypt is in Africa. Jolie is smokin hot. I could care less-I just hope we get to see Mark Anthony get some booty in the movie.
I read that Cleopatra was originally a Greek slave woman, not Egyptian at all. Liz Taylor wasn't dark-skinned either.
Cleopatra was mostly Greek. Macedonian, to be precise. She may well have had some sub-Saharan African ancestry, but she wasn't predominantly or even significantly black.
Halle Berry– perfect in every way ! ! !
Cleopatra was a member of the Ptolemaic dynasty of Ancient Egypt. Poltomey I was a general of Alexander the Great. Both Poltomey and Alexander were greek (well actually Macedonian Greek ). Cleopatra's mother was most likey a sister or cousin of her Father, a Greek.
Hence Cleopatra was a Greek. She was the first of her dynasty to actually bother to learn Egyption.
I assume all the people calling for Cleopatra to be played by an historically inaccurate black woman are railing against the recent Twitter crusade to have Spider Man portrayed by a black man.
Beyonce, Alisha Keyes, a young Tina Turner, Leona Lewis would make excellent Cleoptras.
but they'd make better maids.
Go Zoe Saldana!
I can't believe how many people are arguing over this!! IT'S A MOVIE!! GET OVER IT !!! Many movie characters aren't even close to the historic people they played (check out the movie Tombstone ..then check out the REAL pictures of Wyatt, Doc and Big-Nose Kate) Movies are supposed to provide a release..an escape from reality...let's enjoy them for what they are ...entertainment...
hey, just in case no one has mentioned it, cleopatra is of ptolemaic/greek/macedonian descent. and just in case you can't tel b/c it's hard to convey sarcasm over the internet, i am being sarcastic.
they should get that chick from slumdog millionaire to play Cleopatra. Both her and Angie are too pretty for the roll, but at lest she is closer to what a greek looks like than Angelina Jolie. I am white so dont try and call me a racist, and Greeks are not "white." They are olive skinned, with brown or green eyes. Yes Cleopatra was of a Greek bloodline, as were all the rulers of egypt after Alexandar the Great up until Cleos death. So,No she should not be black, but nor should she be as white as Angelina is.
jodipo, you are totally wrong. Greeks do not look like indians. and yes Greeks are white. Jolie can very easily pass for a greek because even your suppose 'dark' Greek isn't any 'darker' then any other Europeans. That Indian actress would never pass for a Greek, she would be mistaken for a Gypsy in Greece and I should know given I have many Greek friends and go to Greece often. Greeks tent to be on the lighter complexion. Go to Greece during the winter time when most Greece aren't out tanning their bodies, and its freezing cold, they get as pale as some Northern Europeans.
Jodipo. White is not a race, Caucasian is a race and it originated in the Caucasus where the people were olive complected as they are today.
Jaya, please learn about history. Egypt is part of the continent of Arica, however, not all Egyptions are black. Being Arican is different from being black. Cleopartra was white. It would be totally ridiculous if a black actress play Cleopatra's role.
Cleopatra was the last of the Ptolemaic Dynasty. This was a Hellenistic royal family of rulers installed by Alexander the Great. If you look at the familily tree you will see a lot of in breading, which was common at the time. So it is very unlikely that Cleopatra was anything but pure Greek. The notion of her being African is a nice dream, but untrue. According the Roman writer Horace, she was as white as alabaster. If you have any doubts I'm sure you can Google her !!
Exactly. The ancient poet Horace (65-8 B.C.) wrote that Cleopatra was as white as alabaster and another ancient writer Lucan wrote of “Cleopatra's white breasts were revealed by the fabric of Sidon... close-woven by the shuttle of the Seres.” So many ancient sources that talk about Cleopatra being white and yet we still have idiots around here trying to incorrectly claim she was some 'black/mixed' woman. Ludicrous.
I would rather read Cleopatra's story in a book rather that see it in a movie because Hollywood will skew facts and historical data just to make a buck (ie: getting beautiful women to play Cleopatra who was not a beauty by today's standards as mentioned above). As a black person I just wish black Hollywood would make an accurate film on the Nubian Empire because they have a history that's just as impressive as the Egyptian Empire (although both societies intermingled and traded goods with each other and many Africans dwelled in Ancient Egypt.)
recently in Egypt- saw very few black people. Some of the women wanted to touch my blond hair- Oh, by theay Cleo was no great beauty and she slept with her brother- I don't even want to see the movie-
Of course Cleopatra is white! Every movie I've seen her in she's white so that must be true.. what's with all these black shenanigans?
I suppose next, some ignorant fool is going to tell me Jesus is not the dark blond haired blue eyed, finely kept bearded stud he is with perfect set of teeth either. How proposterous!!!!
At Derek: Samuel L Jackson also does a white character on The Boondocks. Let's hurry up and call Essence! LMAO
The University of Newcastle has a Cleopatra coin they discovered a few years ago. You can Google it and see for yourself what she looked like. In terns of the film, the studio is out to make as much money as possible (if the movie is even successful) so they can hire an actress that moviegoers want to watch. If people don't want to watch Angelina Jolie as Cleopatra – don't go. Are the people who are trying to influence the decision all willing to buy a ticket if a black actress is cast? Or are they trying to tell the rest of us (I personally don't care) who we need to watch in a movie?
I can't believe how ignorant some people's comments are.....how can you say she's african so she has to be black. Most northern Africans are NOT black. GIVE IT A REST!!, THE RACIST CARD IS OOOOLD!!!!!!!!!!!...
Cleopatra was NOT black. Sorry you cannot change the history. She was white. Also not all people in Africa are black. Many people in north Africa are considered Mediterraneans.
I think she will be great! To me she is a perfect choice!
oh! oh! oh! I know an actress who would be best for this character. and she's greek as well.....Jennifer Aniston –
just can't picture her in that role though
People who say that Cleopatra should be played by a black actress are STOOPID Cleoptra was of Greek heritage, not Nubian
As a former archaeologist, all I have to say is, "who cares?" It's a movie and it won't get the bulk of the historical facts right anyway. Movies with a-list celebs are made for enjoyment and to make money, not to promote revisionist history, unless that history sells more movie tickets, dvds, or cups at McDonalds.
with all the racism sorrounding if cleopatra is black,white, chineese, greek or portugeese and who should play the part i dont think this is going to be a very successfull movie
angie gets to many breaks, she has big ugly lips. long ugle black hair and is skin and bones. she is so afraid of losing
that ugly pitt guy that she can't keep weight on. I mean really look how beautiful jen is.
why don't she and pitt do something about the spell of oil in the gulf. this goes for all of the other stars, and anybody
that got money. like oprah for instant what is she doing. i guess makeup.
Cleopatra was Greek, not African -American.
There is a war in Iraq. There is a war in Afghanistan. Millions of Oil is spewing into the Gulf everyday and countless other news worthy events...THIS IS NOT ONE OF THEM...It's a movie people get over it.....There are obviously many more important things to discuss.
Ana
wow Candyland..you sound so intelligent screaming with your caps on:))). Go get a book honey and learn some history, or maybe not cause you seem to know it all too well judging from your very literate rant. Stop hating on white people you racist! All you do is get offended and swear cause you want a black actress to play the role of a white one (again check your sources moron)!
TO THE IDIOT ABOVE: ANA to be exact....
I'll tone (and dumb) it down for you honey....unlike YOU, I read all the time.....you proved that by missing the other posts....I love Angie (she's white by the way) and many other white people. You keep showing your ignorance by mis-construing the terms Black and Colored.....you say I just want a 'BLACK' actress to play the role....HONEY, I CLEARLY STATED THAT I DIDN'T CARE IF AN INDIAN GIRL PLAYED THE ROLE....Indians may have dark skin, but they're not the 'BLACK' that you are insinuating...when you say 'BLACK'.....you're soooo narrow-minded.....and FYI, I'm hating on ignorant asses like yourself....NOT WHITE PEOPLE. SMOOCHES!
P.S. – If I had the ability to highlight, underline, bold and italicize on this board, I wouldn't have emphasized my points with caps....widen that tiny tube you call a mind doll!
CandyLand my sister you read but I don't think you read enough on Egypt. I've read enough on Egypt to be a self-proclaimed Egyptologist. I think you should read more on the decent of Cleopatra VII and the Ptolemaic Dynasty, who were all mostly Greek partially Roman, no part African.
Really calm down, just because Egypt lies in Africa doesn't mean that all of Egypt was black. Egypt was conquered so many times that only a few dynasties that ruled over Egypt could actually be called Africans.
Wasnt Cleopatra of Greek decent....so she would most likely have been white....but who knows. I surely wasnt there
So according to essence magazine (a racist publication) wants hollywood to go from one extreme (white actress) to the other extreme (black actress). Why not find a "popular" actress that fits the description closer to the real Cleopatra? Hmmm, that would be a novel idea, huh? Freaking idiots....
Cleopatra was not greek, she was from California. That's where all the hot women are. Dummies, come visit us and it will be hard to look at your wife/husband without feeling like your losing out.
She is "Of Color", pink is a color, isn't it?
Maybe she just isn't the right color? If you believe so, step back and put down the big cup of racism you are sipping from.
Why not judge a person by their character, than by their skin color, or is that a quaint, antiquated notion?
As previously stated, Cleo was of Greek descent. This was a rseult of Alexander the Great conquering Egypt. While "Egyptians" may have been black, Cleo was not Egyptian. The idea that she was black, is just PC gobly-goo.
But to correct one poster who states that the whites in South Africa are proof of white Africans, this is a non-sequitor, as those whites originated from the Netherlands.
Yep. She was Greek. So all Greeks should be demanding that she be played by Melina Kanakaredes, Maria Menounos, or Mena Suvari.
As an Egyptologist, I'd lik eto clear up a point here. Cleopatra was from the Ptolemaic Dynasty in Egypt. Ethnically, she was MACEDONIAN. She was not a black woman. It would not be inappropriate for a European woman to portray her, in fact, it would be much more historically accurate.
It is really amazing at how some people will display their ignorance and this..."people of color" is such a hoot when some interpert this to mean Cleo was black. Ggggeeezzz. We even have some guy saying that Plato describes Cleo as being black????? Plato died over 400 years BEFORE Cleo was even born. Read some history and stop watching that BBC show which was a farce. But for accuracy sake Jolie is far too old to play Cleo.
Ok, Ptolemy was a general in the army of Alexander the Great. After the death of Alexander, the generals divided the empire and Ptolemy took control of Egypt. The Ptolemaic dynasty's last ruler was Cleopatra. So, Cleopatra was of European ancestry. I think they could have found a better actress to play the role but, the color of her skin is inline with the real Cleopatra. I guess when President Obama is first portrayed in a movie, he should be played by a Native American actor, after all they were here first.
If the movie looks like it might be good I will see it 🙂
Most importantly, she has the PERSONALITY that befits the role moreover than just the gorgeous looks. Angelina Jolie has done more interesting things with her time than vie for your attention from the hills of Hollywood. She commands your engrossment in her world without begging for it.
mdfaraone is right, people! Cleopatra was a Macedonian Greek! Therefore, Angelina would be perfect in the role! People don't educate themselves before making accusations!
I fnd this whole article pointless–Cleopatra was Greek and therefore should be played by a white actress. My only concern with Angelina Jolie is that she might be a little old–she's 35, and Cleo only lived to be around 38. Her relationship with Caesar happened when she was in her early 20s.
Egyptian royalty at that time was of Greek ancestry.
Wasn't Cleopatra GREEK!!!!? Get over it, people!
Setting aside race, how about considering the fact that Jolie simply cannot act unless she is playing a crazy person (and I don't think that's acting)? Aside from playing crazy people, her only roles are in "action" (i.e. violence without much plot) films where she's carting huge guns around, hired to kill people.
who cares? It's a movie. a MOVIE. watch it, don't watch it.....really, is it going to change anything? people are going to believe whatever it is they want to: she's greek; she's african; she's middle eastern. if you want to be so technical and literal, then she is all of the above.
get over it.
I have nothing against Angelina Jolie. However, I can synpathize with women of color (either African American or Middle Eastern) who resent Hollywood's history of casting a caucasian big star rather than cast for ethnic authenticity. Did they consider Oscar winner Halle Berry or the popular actress from Slumdog Millionaire?
Miguel, how is casting an African American like Halle Berry or the actress from Slumdog Millionaire for a historical figure like Cleopatra who was Greek-Macedonian a white European, "ethnic authenticity"? Greeks have never been African American nor do they look like Indians. They are white Europeans, and Cleopatra belonged to a Greek tribe that was typically fair in coloring. This is what ancient Macedonians like Cleopatra looked like:
http://www.greecepicturetour.com/pictures/philippi-floor-mosaic.jpg
For all those that insist that Cleopatra must be portrayed by a woman of color, because of "reality", they should study history. Cleopatra was descended from the Greeks who conquered Egypt under Alexander the Great. The last two hundred years of Pharoahs were Greek descendants. In fact, none of them even spoke the Egyptian language of the time. So, Cleopatra most likely looked any other woman from Greece or the Mediterranean. Alexander the Great was blonde.
Cleopatra was the product of several generations of royal Macedonian inbreeding. She was a greek by descent and greeks had ruled Egypt since Alexander the Great.
Just another example of how the education system has failed the black community. They think all africans are black.
No Erin, all Black people don't think that all Africans are Black. That hist shows that the educational system has failed you. No one person speaks for everyone. You nor anyone else can tell me what I think. Right, wrong or indifferent everyone is allowed to think what they want. It's when they use there thoughts or actions to hurt another individual, that's when it's wrong. So don't make blanket statements about a race when you don't know what everyone in that race thinks.
No Erin, all Black people don't think that all Africans are Black. That thisshows that the educational system has failed you. No one person speaks for everyone. You nor anyone else can tell me what I think. Right, wrong or indifferent everyone is allowed to think what they want. It's when they use there thoughts or actions to hurt another individual, that's when it's wrong. So don't make blanket statements about a race when you don't know what everyone in that race thinks. Oh yeah, I'm well educated, Black and make over 100K a year.
....how dare you....using the word "they" would mean all blacks i feel...now that is dumb...bet you are not so dumb that you would say it to "they" faces...
I believe when it comes to portraying real life individuals, color does matter. And, for all who want to talk history and places of origin; for the region that Cleopatra is from & the surrounding areas of that region with their placement on the planet itself, all those people were more likely than not, people of melinated complexion; brown or darker. Caucasians were not yet that much intergrated from out of the Caucus Mountains for there to be an overwhelming amount of 'light' faces.
Besides, they (Hollywood) would never allow a person of color to play an iconic Caucasian so, I think they should do the same here.
Tara, light skin complexion people existed during Cleopatra's time, even in the region from where Cleopatra was from. Cleopatra came from a Greek tribe that is typically light skinned since ancient times. We have ancient depictions of how the Macedonians of Cleopatra's time looked like: they were fair complexion as Cleopatra and the Ptolemies were. This is what ancient Macedonians the Greek tribe that Cleopatra belonged to looked like and these ancient depictions are even older then Cleopatra:
http://www.adam-carr.net/mainphotofolder/greece-turkey/pella-vergina/PICT0275.JPG
the new karate kid is black
NEWS FLASH ! : Cleopatra was NOT black, nor was she even African, she was GREEK and a descendent of the Ptolemy royal family of Greece. This is historical FACT, look it up. All those up in arms need to pull out some history books and get an education. She may have ruled Egypt but she was not of Egytian descent.
When is everything really going to stop being about color.....Angelina Jolie would be the perfect Cleopatra not because of her skin color but because of her talent and looks....now these groups and blogs need to get with the times and stop judging everything on race....racisim is something in the past.
Where does it say a "woman of color" has to be black. Native American, Hispanic, Spanish, and Asian women are of color. I think people here are missing the point and bringing out remarks that can be taken as racist. Everyone needs to get over themselves and stop using medias such as this to spout racism. That's the problem with us, we hate each other and take every opportunity to say it and other countries look as laugh. The question should be who's the better actress to play the part.
and jolie descends from canadian indians (native), thus she too is "of color."
What about when they cast a Black Samuel L Jackson to play a White Nick Fury character for the Avengers franchise? Where was Essence.com then?
This is for you SHEPPERD: LOL
This is for you Vivian………
Just because I can’t stand ignorant racists like the ones I see posting here (and not everyone posted an anti-black comment) and choose to express my anger over such comments. Does not make me a racist……………
I have the right to express my anger…if your crazy as read any of my other posts, you’d see that I love Angie! Also, I stated that generally, I have no problem with whites. It’s the white washers and the white washing I have a problem with. It’s the people who really hate any person that is black or colored (non-white) and they lie themselves into believing that they don’t simply because they can tolerate us. Do you really think that the white person who puts down non-whites does it just because they think it’s funny or makes a good joke; or that he doesn’t hold some hatred or disgust in his heart??? Quit dreaming! Wake up and smell the b/s that’s pushed all over this nation by closet racists…..if you’re not one….then you probably work for one!
I think Halle Berry would make a wonderful Cleopatra. She would be perfect for the part, she is beautiful. Personally I'm sick to death of Angelina Jolie.
Sandy, Halle Berry would make an awful Cleopatra and totally miscast for the part for two obvious reasons:
1) Cleopatra was not black nor mixed, she was white and of fair coloring
2) Cleopatra was not beautiful. Halle Berry is gorgeous and mixed. A total miscast for historical reasons.
Why have this woman who is nutso do this role... She is ugly and is somoene that will drive away movie goers... they might want to look for a real actress that is not nutso and have some talent to do this role..
Jolie is soooo over-rated. Let's get someone with some meat on her bones!
I've got a meaty bone for her RIGHT HERE!!!!
Angelina Jolie as Cleopatra is perfect casting. A beautiful and strong Oscar-winning actress who is also a phenonmonal humanitarian and mother.
Where are all these black people getting their historical facts from???
She was never black. She has greek ancestors who did a lot of inbreeding. She was caucasian, If she ever had any color it was a tan.
To quote the auother of the article, "I firmly believe this role should have gone to a Black woman.”
The author must be an uneducated bigot, to hold such a view.
If it is the case that Cleopatra was, in fact, Greek...then they should most obviously have a woman of Greek, Mediterranean, or lower Eastern European (Aegean sea) decent play her, same with the man who plays Alexander. However, this is not the way it works out, and I can guarantee you that movies in other countries use actors from their race to portray other races...so why the big deal? And to the person who said: "Plenty of Americans play British roles"... American and British are not races, just cultures 😉
I have a feeling this is going to be a REALLY BAD MOVIE anyway, so the women of color who were turned down for this role should thank their lucky stars...their careers are safe!
peephole of colereds
Everyone who believes or thinks ancient Egyptians were African needs to take some history lessons. This is nothing more than wishful thinking on your parts, and an usurpation of a history that is not yours. With respect to the Ptolemies, of which Cleopatra was one, THEY WERE MACEDONIAN, which is not only part of modern day Greece, but Northern Greece at that. They were of European ancestry, NOT AFRICAN. The dynasty was founded by Alexander the Great, son of Philip of Macedonia. Further, the Ptolemies married their brothers and sisters – they did not intermarry with the native Egyptian population. The Ptolemies had not one ounce of African heritage. To claim they were African because they lived in North Africa is like me (of English, Irish, and German-Jewish descent) claiming that I am a Native American because my family has lived in North America for nearly 400 years. To usurp a history and a culture not your own is stealing, nothing more.
NINA YOU ALSO NEED TO READ A HISTORY BOOK!!! CLEOPATRA WAS NOT ROMAN SHE WAS GREEK.
Elizabeth Taylor was the best Cleo. She could still play her.
Cleopatra was not African. She was Greek nor was she or her sister or any of the Ptolemies mixed. They inbred to preserve their royal Greek-Macedonian lineage. The Ptolemies never viewed themselves as 'Egyptians'. Cleopatra was a descendant of Ptolemy, one of Alexander's generals, that some ancient sources also claim was Alexander's brother. Its a fact that the Ptolemies kept Alexander's body to showcase their Macedonian lineage. Up until the time Ptolemaic rule ended, the Ptolemies didn't call nor view themselves 'Egyptians', they continued to identify as Macedonians.
"The Ptolemaic kings and queens of Egypt liked to be called Macedonians, as in fact that is what they were" ~ Pausanias
Thank you for that truth!
Get over it. Cleopatra IS Angelina Jolie in her second life. She's perfect for the part. If you are not an Angelina fan, then you REALLY dont know her... Can't wait to buy tickets !
Well, that's obvious... if we aren't fans of hers it means we don't really spend time following her... good work Sherlock.
We need a Cleopatra with some SASS — Like Whoopie! She would be awesome!!
Yes. The queen was hot and so is she
Everyone....Shut the FU. Geez
Have any of you ever checked out what historians believe Cleopatra really looked like?! It's widely agreed that she was NOT an attractive woman by any stretch of the imagination. Seductive? Yes. Beautiful? HECK, no! Therefore, my thought is why not cast someone who more closely resembles Cleo's actual appearance instead of any of the drop-dead beautiful actresses of ANY color?!
If the movie were made accurately showing The Queen of the Nile as being unattractive to the point of homely, I doubt you have the same scramble of A-list beauties lined up for the part. Not every actress has the courage of Charlize Theron to play against their own stunning good looks.
The backlash is warranted. It's simply Hollywood being Hollywood... no surprise here.
While in Egypt and especially the area called Numia in lower Egypt, I was transfixed to see true Black egyptians. In upper Egypt the people are of a more diverse color because of the Roman influence. Cleopatra was of Roman decent so she may have been more Roman like in appearance. I did not realize until I visited this country that Cleopatra was not white as potrayed by Elizabeth Taylor in 1963. Cleopatra's Mother was an egyptian so Cleopatra may have had a strong defined appearance not unlike the native egyptians were at that time. Th artifacts found with her likeness emblazoned on them show that she had a big nose and big lips....Her likeness was not of the beautful blue eyed babe that Elizabeth Taylor played in the movie. There is an African/Greek influence in Cleopatra. Lets say that she was indeed white as most people may believe.....if a black person played her in this movie would whites not go to the movie?
Cleopatra was a woman of color and as such, should be played by a woman of color.....it would be a plus for Brad Pitt to play Marc Anthony. If a role was being cast for Aunt Jemima, would some white actress be cast in that part as well?
White people are not the only people that are noteworthy you know. Jesus was black, the decription of him in the bible ditate that....he is described "with skin the color of copper and hair like sheeps wool" So......what kind of white man could that description possibly be. When I was growing up, my aunts had pictures of Jesus all over their homes....the pictures were of a blue eyed white man with honey blond hair........This is the man they prayed to! Slaves prayed to this same image in their heads because slave masters instilled in the slaves that even Jesus was a white man. Sorry for getting off the subject here however, how christian of them to talk about religion with the slave when it was they that were enslaving them.
Lots of black jews hanging out in Isreal back then. Yup.
This reply is to Stoopid.
There are actually Jewish people who are Black. Google it and you will see. They were born Jewish and are from Egypt.
THIS GOES OUT TO ALL WHITE PEOPLE: I KNOW IT IS HARD TO EXCEPT THAT A GREAT QUEEN IS BLACK? WHERE IS EGYPT? WHAT SKIN COLOR DO EGYPTIANS HAVE: BLACK OR BROWN. SHE WAS A GREAT BLACK QUEEN. I KNOW ITS HARD TO TAKE ALL IN (OUR PRESIDENT IS BLACK ALSO) . WE NEED TO CAST A BLACK MAN AS PRESIDENT LINCOLON OR KING OF GERMANY OR GREENLAND. THATS HOW WE FEEL ABOUT WHITE (WHICH I GUESS IS RIGHT) PLAYING PEOPLE WHOM YOU ALL KNOW WAS BLACK. NEXT BRAD PITT WILL PLAY REV. KING!!!!!!
STOP THE MADDNESS
You, diva, have issues. Caps also doesn't make you sound better... just makes you look like a fool. Stop generalizing by addressing your comments to "ALL WHITE PEOPLE" because not everyone shares the same sentiment. Change your name to dumb. That might work better for you.
King of Greenland? God damn black people are stupid.
OH NO YOU DITTINT!
You thought that was bad, check out the part where she said "LINCOLON"
LOL? Is this "MADDness?" No, but it's not madness, either. It's just a heavily medicated commenter.
Open a history book instead of making assumptions or buying the made up Nation Of Islam prison history lesson.
Diva you need to get over yourself. By the time Cleo became queen, the white man had already conqured Egypt. You should try and eductate yourself and stop getting your history from whatever PC group you get it from. Among the educated, the debate is over, she was white.
diva – I can't stand stupid people – I don't care what color they are.... (with thanks to Norman Lear)...
ALL CAPS = FAIL.
White cleopatra? = FAIL
Total lack of education? = FAIL.
You miss get an F.
You need to get over your black inferiority complex. There are great black people, but stop inventing ones that don't exist.
Cleopatra was Greek
this article is ridiculous and divisive. anyone with any knowledge of Egyptian history knows that cleopatra was of Macedonian decent... not african.
At Taharqu: You had to go there...You know you are about to set off a fire storm.
At Fred (LMAO) You stupid (As Tommy would say to Cole on the show Martin)!!!
nina,
pretty hilarious you are harping on people for not reading a book because Cleopatra was not Roman or Italian. The Ptolemies were of Macedonian origin. They were established by one of Alexander the Great's generals, Ptolemy, after the collapse of the Macedonian empire following Alexander's death. In fact, the Ptolemies didn't even speak Egyptian, outside of Cleopatra. They were Greek speakers. Now, of course, her children by Antony would have been half Roman, but Cleopatra didn't have a drop of Italian blood in her. In any manner, it is inaccurate to think Cleopatra was black. I guess in a cinematic sense, it would be like Tyler Perry's My Big Fat Greek Wedding. The big historical inaccuracy of Angelina Jolie playing Cleopatra is that Cleopatra wasn't known for being a supermodel. Her attraction was in her charm, not her looks. Unless we consider Jolie to be plain looking, we'd have to find a less attractive actor to pull it off.
....or spell caMcorder either
Cleopatra would have looked like some one from Greece – being the birthplace of the Ptolemy dynasty – that ruled Egypt after Alesander the Great's general – Ptolemy took over. The line of rulers after that would have more closely resembled a Greek not an Egyptian – Jolie – in real life resembles Cleopatra – just ask Jennifer Aniston.
Jennifer Anniston? Too funny! Isn't she Greek?
NINA...YOU NEED TO READ A HISTORY BOOK ALSO !!!! CLEOPATRA WAS "GREEK" NOT ROMAN
Cleopatra is from the Bronx!
Since when does the public have any say whatsoever in who should play a role in a movie?? Half the people making comments can't even run a cacorder.... let alone come up with 100 million to make a movie. Angelina Jolie is one of the hottest stars alive. Anything she does brings in the big bucks!! This is a business not a debate. Let it be.
I agree with Tom. It's about acting and besides Angrelina is one of the most beautiful creatures in the world, If anyone saw the lates pics of what the experts say Cleopatra really looked like, she was actually quite homely.
Cleopatra is from a long line of incest who else does that but some ancient white trash read people read
Ancient black people lived in huts. Not much has changed there.
....or what about Queen Latifah, or Snooki, or L'il Kim (when she gets out of the slammer, or Heidi Montag, or Lindsay Lohan could make a big comeback with this role....the possibilities are endless!
LOL@Snooki.
PUHLEEASE don't give that talentless lump of poo more screen time.
ROFL
Considering that Angelina already played Alexander's mom in another movie, I gues she could play the descendant of one of his generals.
Angelina will be great for this role...absolutely!
Get over it! I don't care what nationality you are, (black, white, italian, greek, etc.,)! This is hollywood where the truth is always stretched to the imagination. What's real is the point, not what "Hollywood" is portraying. The bible states Jesus had hair of wool, yet the pictures reflect blond straight hair....so what! Black people – please stop oppressing yourselves over things we can not change! Angelina is playing the part...so what! I'm a black woman and I could care less, because when it's time to educate my children I will refer to history books and readings about Cleopatra and other historical figures. Color means nothing...once we can move past that we can rise above.
The truth is, images of Cleopatra with black African women portraying her look silly. "Oh no you dittint juss take ma raft down da Nile!!!"
that's just wrong on so many levels.
SHE WAS NOT BLACK!!!!!!
All of her ancestors were greeks.
Really people, get over it.
Perfect!
At Troof: Yes I picked an Indian girl but it wasn't about race or color it was about age...you dweeb!
What a silly debate! Cleopatra was of Greek Macedonia ancestry. Jolie is suitable enough for that look. To say Cleopatra should be played by a black woman just because she ruled an African state is an ignorant re-write of history.
I just spent a month traveling through Egypt, and I didn't see a single Egyptian woman who even slightly resembled Angelina Jolie. Bollywood actress, Aishwarya Rai, would be ideal for the Cleopatra role. She is spectacularly gorgeous while puffy-lipped Jolie looks like a botox model.
To CandyLand:
The ONLY time I ever hear the phrase "people of color" is when, I'm sorry to say, black people (I know, not PC) are talking about black people (yeah, still not PC) in regards to diversity, equal rights, EEO, blah blah blah. Or during the last election. Or when Oprah is on.
I once worked for a university; this university had a diversity group (can't remember the actual name of the department, sorry) that wasn't very diverse. It was all people of color, just not different colors.
I always thought that was amusing.
Anyway, if you REALLY want to see some miscast cinema, watch some older color westerns from the 60s-early 70s that feature Indian (yeah, STILL not PC) characters. Those are the whitest Indians you'll ever see. Of course, this is largely due to our governments ongoing effort to put down the RED MAN.
LOL, couldn't resist that last one.
What about Gabourey Sidibe? Didn't Oprah say she had a wonderful career ahead of her????
If Gand Ol Oprah said it, make it so! Personally I'd prefer Bababooey.
Google Tina Turner as Cleopatra. That is the way Cleopatra should be portrayed, nothing less.
Was Cleopatra known for speaking excessively loud and obnoxiously? If so an African American actress might work.
she's absolutely perfect for the part!
OK, kill it! Slavery affects people of any color all over the world. You gotta have your head up your _ _ _ to think that "people of color" have been and will be the only ones serving time in the home of someone that ownes them. In fact, in African history, you will find that when a tribe went to war with another and won, they took prisoners and turned them into slaves. "People of color" slaving away for another "person of color". Same held true for some of our very own Native American tribes. So get a clue and help someone who really needs help instead of wasting your time at work on this far left site. Gotta go, gotta go back to work now too.
AC, you are right. Slavery is not just for one color, and not just one color here in the U.S. White slaves and indentured slavery existed. Again I say, this should not be about color, it should be able the facts. But this is a movie, not real life.
Get over it. It is the producer and director's decisions to hire on the people that THEY want to portray a role. How do you know that any dark skinned women even tried out for the part?
Stop making everything out to be a race issue and move on. If you dont agree with it, dont go to see it.
Cleopatra of Egypt was of Macedonian descent and a distant relative of Alexander the Great. Today, it is a part of modern Greece. If you look at the coins minted in her reign, you will see that she had an aquiline nose and thin lips. There is a famous sculture of her when she was a young woman that is in a museum in Berlin. Find it on the internet. Her nationality was Egyptian as the Ptolemaic dynasty had ruled there for 300 years. She was their last monarch. The point is that readers really need to get informed about who Cleopatra was. And her ethinicity was not black African.
Peter Washburn
DDKillerBlondie, think of it this way The TV station is BET or Black Entertainment Television, if there was a WET WHite Entertainment television, we'd all be racist. hmm... double standards. Get over the racist junk. As an Egyptian History Junkie, as stated earlier Cleopatra wasn't even truely Egyptian! Why is this even a debate, it's a movie. A.J would kick butt in that role she is a woman of power in todays society.
Is Angelina Jolie the only name people in Hollywood think of these days? Why not consider someone who's actually Greek like Melina Kanakarides or someone who looks Mediterranean like Salma Hayek. She gets my vote.
Selma Hayek could play Babe Ruth in a movie and I'd go see it.
I DO NOT THINK Jolie should play the role...can we get out of the typical hollywood circle and branch out to get some other actors? For this role I'd definetly like to see someone other than a caucasian may be middle eastern, hispanic or african american, how about Penelope Cruz!
So you think the person should be chosen based on race, specifically 'not white'.
Jen, I am from Spain and caucasian. Penelope Cruz is from Spain, she is caucasion. Beaing a caucasion does not mean your complexion is white. Please do some reading about the caucasion race before showing your ignorance. Cleopatra was Greek and that makes her a caucasian also.
Clate Blanchette played Bob Dylan
and got nominted for a Oscar, she would be great as Cleo...
Cleopatra was NOT of any sort of "African" specific decent. Cleopatra's line/ancestry was Hellenic, meaning Greek. She spoke Greek. She was educated as such, and raised at a time when Greeks (whites) were rulers of Egypt. The people who are up in arms, and always complaining at historic figures portrayals, need to study history more distinctly. The near east areas of the world, Egypt, Asia Minor, modern Iran and Iraq, were always in flux and actually share a great deal of similarities in culture and origin. With constant warring and expansion from both Persian and European empires, there was a great deal of change in power over time.
More to the point: Egypt was not ruled exclusively by those of "African" or "Persian" decent. There were dynasties and rulers that were of European, or at least, Mediterranean decent. Cleopatra among them.
She was not only of Hellenic descent, check your history and recent findings regarding her family. I say this only for the truth, not for the color. It matters not about that part, I just want to the truth. Who plays what part, in the grand scheme of things, doesn't matter.
Faith, she was mostly of Hellenic origins specifically Greek-Macedonian lineage. Her mother was not Egyptian she was of the Ptolemaice bloodline, her father's niece/cousin. She even had the same name as her daughter Cleopatra.
Eddie Murphy could probably do the part.And look better than that boney Jolie.
Only if he could play a second role that requires a fat suit and a grandma dress.
Tight,that would work.Plenty of fat Greeks.And they all wore dresses then .
I don't think Angelina Jolie is the "perfect" anything.
I bet you have green eyes.............
SHE WAS GREEK !!!!!! DURING HER ERA, THE GREEKS WERE RULERS FOR MOST OF THE EMPIRERS !!!!! THAT'S WHY SHE HAS BEEN WHITE. Learn your history.
Naw!
Angelina Jolie as Cleopatra. Ho-Hum. How dull! Let's face it. A movie such as this has one purpose and that purpose has nothing to do with art. MONEY!! Why isn't a woman of colour chosen? Because, who is prettier and more popular than Angelina Jolie? Besides, isn't she married to BRAD PITT? Yes, Angelina has been chosen for this reason alone.
"Clutchmagonline.com points out that the Egyptian royal has already been portrayed by three actresses who were not of color: actress Claudette Colbert in 1934, actress Vivien Leigh in 1945 and the most famous Cleopatra to date, Elizabeth Taylor in 1963."
Ok, now, correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't white women the only ones considered for most/ all leading roles in the period in which these 3 movies were made? This wouldn't be a valid point at all, then. It makes no sense....
I just want to know if we're going to see some serious skin! 🙂
How about LeAnne Rimes
While we are at it. When are we going to start portraying Jesus as a man of color too? He would have been too.
God is white though. Jesus was his imperfect human form, hence the color.
Jesus was Jewish.
Who cares what they want. It's not about what they want. It's about finding an actress to fill a role, not to stroke some race's ego, or even to be historically accurate. Cleopatra has been played by all sorts of white girls. Don't like it? Go make your own movie, and GET OVER IT.
The author wants Angelina as the actress for his movie. It is his idea, in the world we live in, where dreams are torn apart my the economy and who knows what else. Who are we to judge one man's dreams? Leave it alone and let one person's dreams and ideas come to life.
I don't see the big deal. Ya'll own Wednesday nights on TBS. What else do you want?
Yeah but the white devils took away my WB.
We want CBS, ABC, NBC and ESPN....JK. That was very funny though...get it TBS- very funny!
Why is everyone so concerned about race, have we not grown in the last 100 years? If a writer creates a story and wants a particular "movie star" to play the role, the role he envisioned, he should be allowed to do whatever he wishes and cast whomever he wants. Most of you are forgetting that back when acting first started most actors and actresses were white hence the many "white roles". I can't believe that in this day and age, with people always talking about acceptance and race, the huge reversal of racism. Get over the color issue and think about the role, obviously the writer saw a vision. It is a slow climb but the industry is shifting, you can't hardly expect change overnight unless you are active and do something about it yourself.
First of all...there is only one race...that's the Human one...
Second of all....this all started (for me) with historical accuracy
It would be nice to ignoe the whole 'color' thing....but as long as there are only a handful of meaningful roles that people of color are CAST for (I'm not talking about the hoochie mamas, video mavens, junkies, grandmas, etc.)....there will be people of color screaming out because we see it as (well there's yet another role that they won't consider us for)....
No disrespect to Ms. Berry, but if you look at the number of Oscars that have been awarded to whites vs. blacks or people of color (and for the roles that were portrayed to receive the award.....)....you have Halle Berry – she played a down and out single mother willing to pimp herself out to the man (unbeknownst to her) who participated in the execution of her husband....did you watch Monster's Ball? It was disgusting what she had to do...then there's Denzel...of all the roles he's had, they choose the one where he portrays one of the worst enemies the black community has ever had...a greedy, selfish, black man who would sell his mother drugs to make a buck, then of course there's Hattie McDaniel – what a wonderful houseservant she played.....
To say that there is not talent enough in the colored actor's community to receive such awards is a lie from the pit of hell! Yet that's what were told every awards season...now they don't even bother to write oscar-worthy roles that they consider us for....
Just a little nugget for you to nibble on......
Candy Land- The whole point of this blog is about Angie playing Cleopatra. If you want to change Hollywood and how the black community is portrayed in films it has to start from within. There need to be more non whites writing roles and producing them. Hollywood has long been a white persons field but that is changing, slowly but it is. You can't expect things overnight and unless more people like yourself (unhappy with Hollywood) are willing to change it, it will take even longer. It's easy to pass the buck and blame someone else for the way things were and are. We aren’t that generation anymore but it's a slow progression to change something like that.
I think Oprah should play Cleo....ha!
Angie gets enough breaks, so does all stars. Why don't they hold auditions like american idol. I bet I could win.
LeAnne Rimes
THIS IS FOR YOU V I V I A NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!
JUST BECAUSE I CAN'T STAND IGNORANT RACIST LIKE THE ONES I SEE POSTING HERE (AND NOT EVERYONE POSTED AN ANTI-BLACK COMMENT) AND CHOOSE TO EXPRESS MY ANGER OVER SUCH COMMENTS....DOES NOT MAKE ME A RACIST.........
I HAVE THE RIGHT TO EXPRESS MY ANGER...IF YOUR CRAZY ASS READ ANY OF MY OTHER POSTS, YOU'D SEE THAT I LOVE ANGIE! ALSO, I STATED THAT GENERALLY, I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH WHITES. IT'S THE WHITE WAHSERS AND THE WHITE WASHING I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH. IT'S THE PEOPLE WHO REALLY HATE ANY PERSON THAT IS BLACK OR COLORED AND THEY LIE THEMSELVES INTO BELIEVING THAT THEY DON'T SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY CAN TOLERATE US. DO YOU REALLY THINK THAT THE WHITE PERSON WHO PUTS DOWN NON-WHITES DOES IT JUST BECAUSE THEY THINK IT'S FUNNY OR MAKES A GOOD JOKE OR THAT DOESN'T HOLD SOME HATRED OR DISGUST IN HIS HEART???? QUIT DREAMING! WAKE UP AND SMELL THE B/S THAT'S PUSHED ALL OVER THIS NATION BY CLOSET RACISTS....IF YOU'RE NOT ONE...THEN YOU PROBABLY WORK FOR ONE!
If you want folks to read your rants, turn off the caps – I got a third of the way through and just quit – too hard to read...
Oh, get over yourself. Your black, so what.
CandyLand, you tell'em! I think some of these folks who are posting here would commit suicide if they were considered colored in any way shape or form (lol). I think they should cast someone who is young and fresh like Asin Thotumkal. She's probably too pretty to play the part but at least she is in the right age frame. BTW, this was posted by a black woman!
Yeah, because getting an Indian girl to play a Macedonian Greek makes more sense.
all this racist stuff from the "black community" OMG get a grip, you can not make it a sin for any of us to be white.
and above all its a film! film = fantasy, so why would they not pick one of the most beautiful women on the planet to play the roll.
Really people GET A GRIP
OK, I'M GONNA FORGIVE YOU BECAUSE YOU'RE BLONDE...LOL...(EVEN YOUR OWN PEOPLE TELL BLONDE JOKES SO DON'T TRIP)....
GET OFF THE COUCH...TELL LONG DONG SILVER TO GIVE YOU A NOTEBOOK AND PUT THE KY UP FOR A MINUTE....
I'M GONNA CATCH YOU UP TO SPEED SO YOU MAY WANNA TAKE NOTES....
THE DISPUTE IS NOT ABOUT ANGIE HERSELF, (OH YOU SPELL THAT A-N-G-I-E....OK? WE'LL CONTINUE...SORRY....CON TIN U....
LOTS OF PEOPLE ARE SICK OF HISTORICAL FIGURES BEING M I S R E P R E S E N T E D...
THAT'S IT IN A NUTSHELL....
YOU CAN CALL LONG DONG AND THE CAMERA CREW BACK NOW....
Ok CANDY BRAIN! I think your gummy worms are molting
To set the record for you, I am not a couch potato I work FULL time, I (and many others) enjoy good movies made for/by FANTASY FILM MAKERS, Angie is a beautiful strong woman, and if Cleo was alive to pick who would play her, I bet Angie would be HER PICK!
people need to stop the Race Issue for every little farting thing going on On this planet. OMG there is a oil spill and kids starving, that is way more important than a actress getting chosen for a ACTING JOB!
Now for your Long Dong production friends they can crawl back under a rock!
Angelina Jolie is a woman of color. That color being white should not be a factor. She is an amazingly beautiful woman with serious acting chops. But keep that racist propaganda rolling. Since when is Hollywood concerned with historical fact especially since no one for ancient Egypt is here to tell the tale. Everything is NOT about race.
Cleopatra was part of the Greek Ptolemy dynasty. Historically, it is believed she had red hair, blue eyes and a pale complexion but because people have mistakenly considered her Egyptian for hundreds of years she is always portrayed with dark skin and jet black hair. It is true that many historical figures who likely were people of color are frequently portrayed as white in modern pop culture and it is definitely a slight on the true history of their lives. But Cleopatra was not black. Angelina Jolie does look similar to the way society has depicted Cleopatra, but if they really want to make her look authentic they need to lighten her hair and give her blue contacts. If you do not believe me, try googling "what did cleopatra really look like?". There are computer generated images that have been put together based on all the evidence – her remains, paintings of her in life, her ancestry, etc.
Will Smith didn't seem to care about Chinese culture with the Karate Kid, which should have been the Kung Fu Kid. Did the black community freak out about that? No, they went to the movie to support a brutha.
There was a TV ad for a company that made blinds that sold in the Wash DC area that featured several of its sales staff – one of whom would be perfect for this role. She was small, thin and tho I don't remember her having a big Cleopatra type nose, she had long dark flyaway hair, dark eyes and even spoke very well. Her skin color was a light, dusky hue which I think would be true to the real Cleopatra's heritage. You can be sure the real monarch did not spend alot of time out in the sun so she would not be too dark. Casting ought to look her up.
Firstly, I would like to state that I am recently certified historian from the University of California. Secondly, for all of those that are outraged that Cleopatra will be a Caucasian woman–there are plenty of other things to be outraged about, but this is not one of them. Cleopatra, a member of the Ptolemy dynasty, was actually Greek. The Ptolemy dynasty originated from Macedonia (Northern Greece) and General Ptolemy was an adviser and friend to Alexander the Great himself. Cleopatra was named after the second wife of Philip I Alexander's father (ironically, Angelina Jolie played Philip's first wife in the film Alexander). In actuality Cleopatra would most likely have been fairer skinned and there has been historical accounts of her lacking in beauty, but never charm. Please reference Professor and Dr. Hedrick and also Plutarch's histories.
@Dizman – Actually my Great-Grandfather died when I was 22 years old. His parents were slaves then freed. And they walked from South Carolina to Virginia. It is a misconception to believe slavery is so far removed from Black families. I remember him telling stories at the Thanksgiving table as a little boy about slavery. And in some areas the stain of slavery is still ingrained in the mentality of impoverished areas with no education. In closing, be sensitive to the fact slavery is still a faint whisper in some Black people's ears.
You all need to stop listening to historians (the world's first fiction writers- because even THEY new exaggeration was more interesting) and listen to TomTom. It is a known fact that Cleopatra was orange/green polka dotted with scaly skin that complemented her fave permanent eye liner color- Flesh. Oh yes... she also pooped Otis Spunkmeyer chocolate-chip muffins.
To the writer of Essence.com....how about if you do some research, before writing an article that clearly displays the chip on your shoulder and your lack of education. That's the "Essence" of irresponsible journalism. Cleopatra was from the Ptolemaic line of pharaohs...who, by the by....were Greek. Not African. But thanks for coming out!
White people on the defense!!!! HAHAHA
Black people too worried about bling bling to bother looking at a coin or bust of Cleopatra that was made in her lifetime. Oh snap!
Poach munkey on da fence! HAHA
I recognize that this is Hollywood and inaccuracies abound, but Cleopatra is one of my favorite historical figures. I also enjoy watching Angelina Jolie act, she's engaging and has a minimal number of traits that carry from film to film (unlike others that shall remain unnamed). Having made these two points, I do not want to see Angelina play Cleopatra, she is lacking common Greek features that I would like to see. Of course, I would also want them to speak Greek, Egyptian and Latin through the whole movie.
Too bad Marina Sirtis is no longer young. She played Counselor Troi in Star Trek the Next Generation. Does anyone remember her? She was born in Greece and she was so gorgeous!
I am beyond blown away with all the comments. Being a woman of color and a history buff, (my degree is not in History), knowing that Cleo was of Greek heritage from her father's side, does not leave out the fact that she gets some of her features from her mother as well. Based on historical facts, Cleo was Greek and Eygptian. We as a people should not be up in arms about what color the person on the screen is who is depicting her. We should all realize that, as my grandmother would say, it is he who holds the money that makes the rules. I just hope that they get the story right. Since none of us who are commenting on this little bit of news were not there, I doubt seriously that any of us know what any of those people looked liked, behaved like, or ruled. I would like to know the solid truth of our history instead of what they show in a movie.
Finally, something I can agree with. Thank you, thank you, thank you!
Very well stated Faith. Let the rest of the world learn from you... dO)
Cleopatra was Greek and there is one surviving painting of a woman that most Egyptian scholars believe is of Cleopatra. This painting portrays a plain looking young woman with fair skin and what looks to be reddish hair.
You know what really keeps some Black people down, the need to ALWAYS play the race card. News Flash!!! The rest of the world actually has to use their brain and talents to get them ahead and DON'T go around complaining saying it's because I'm Jewish, Chinese, Spanish, British, Australian, Canadian...whatever it is (fill in the blank for yourself). History has taught us that many ethnicities had to overcome their own trial and tribulations to get them to where they are today...black people are just one of many with such a history. Get over yourselves and get with the program. The WORLD no longer cares to hear you use your great, great grandparents as an excuse anymore as to why you're uneducated as many of your posts reveal today.
I'm a black American and I agree with what you are saying. However, there is much to be said about race that I think goes un-addressed (if that is even a word). I believe that you are a pretty intelligent person from what you've written. I am pretty sure that you understand the dynamics of our society and therefore there is no need to drag you personally through any type of history or try to one up your opinion. However, for those that don't understand, I mean, 40-50 years since having the right to even vote, or 30 years since having the right to date interracially is pretty significant. There are people posting on this board that may have seen the end of Jim Crow with their own eyes. I agree with you that we should be looking past the past. But I think we should also be a little more sensitive to each other's cultural differences and heritage.
Could you imagine being born in Africa and a white European child and being told that your whole history in Africa consisted of being sold as chattle and that whatever you had was stripped from you (family, knowledge, wealth, etc.)? Could you imagine that the history prior to your ancestors coming to Africa was great and that you were possibly a descendant of greatness? But nobody teaches that to you. It's almost like never really feeling a sense of home or true history and being taught that all the way from childhood. I mean, some might say suck it up...and that's a reasonable statement. but i think something has to be said about HIStory. I think many blacks just want the truth. Even if it comes down simply to a Cleopatra movie you know? Sounds stupid but, it's really more about the history of a people seeking the truth about who they are, where they are from and where they are headed. That's all.
Everyone doesn't use the race card. Sorry!!!!! Both my parents were born disabled and held jobs and I was never given anything extra being the race that I am. I worked hard, two jobs at times to get where I am. Because i was taught that hard work was needed to succeed. I've lost family members to war, fighting for a country we love. Never have I or anyone in my family used the race card. Now I have a job that pays very well and I got it cause I graduated in the top 2% of my class in high school and in college. I have student loans and wasn't given a free ride. My parents save 5% of there income every month to send me to school. So it insults me that people think all Black people use there race to get ahead. Not one person speaks for me on this site, I speak for myself.
The race card is a Joker!
besides her race (which is a big factor) how about someone comment on Angelina's age?! she's way too old to pull off this role!
I would suspect that the movie will be another half researched, silly, pointless waster of time and film stock. Cleopatra was a more interesting, fully developed character than as shown in most main line movies. The actress who played Cleopatra in the HBO series ROME showed more what Cleopatra was probably like.
Clete, you are correct Lyndsey Marshal the actress who played her on the HBO series, Rome, looks more like Cleopatra. Cleopatra wasn't very attractive and Marshal had the closest Cleopatra look that I have seen from the actresses who have played her.
Do you know the name of that HBO show about Cleopatra? I just read two good books about her. Cleopatra's Memoires by Margaret George and Cleopatra's Daughter by Michelle Moran. Both were fun reads, and seemed reasonably well researched. I'm staying out of this race issue.
Hi Katt,
It was the HBO series 'Rome' I think its out on DVD if I'm not mistaken.
Camie-You hit the nail on the head! We have so many other issues in this country and across the world. As long as we allow ourselves to be divided, we will never truly be the "United" States of America. Throughout my 48 years of life, I have seen civil rights, equal rights and now the fight for gay rights. But as long as the media in our country has the power we give it, NONE of us will achieve equality because peace and harmony doesn't sell papers!
Cleopatra was Greek, so yes, Angelina's looks are accurate for that part. She also has the temptress style too.
I will go see it. 🙂
I would suspect that the movie will be another half researched, silly, pointless waster of time and film stock. Cleopatra was a more interesting, fully developed character than as shown in most main line movies. The actress who played Cleopatra in the HBO series showed more what Cleopatra was probably like.
I thought that cleopatra's family was from a Greek Family if anything she would of looked like a woman of mixed race if that. You people need a history lesson.
I think Angelina Jolie is to ugly for the role......
There are lots of ignorant people out there, for one Egyptians are NOT BLACK.. Not every people from Africa are BLACK.. So, response to ESSENCE.. just your facts straight before commenting.
The funny thing about this entire conversation is that I am Eygptian and I currently live in Eygpt with my American husband. We are in America to visit family. My family is made up of the darkest shade of brown to the lightest shade of white and we don't care. My wedding consisted of everyone together enjoying each other and celebrating my union to my husband. The story is what matters and weather it is told accurately and the actors draw you into that part of interesting Eygptian history.
Do a little digging.. Cleopatra was Greek
But Cleopatra wasn't from an Egyptian bloodline. She was from the ptolemaic bloodline. They were Greek. Hence, white.
Candyland, you need to calm down before you explode all over the place. Cleo was greek and greeks are olive skinned. Angela looks olive skinned to me. She will be perfect for the part. Elizabeth Taylor is white white and British to boot. Nobody cared. She got the part and she played the part, just like Angelina will do. If you don't like it, then don't go see the movie.
I think Obama should regulate the movies just like he wants to do for all private enterprise – then he and his geniuses in the White House can decide who gets the role. Who need freedom anymore anyway?
you should not be free go back to your cave
Angeline is HOT. She should play all roles
I fancy a roll with her. Nudge nudge.
Even the North Africans can't get this right? Cleopatra was a member of a Hellenistic dynasty. Sure she adopted Egyptian customs and beliefs but she was Hellenistic and greek in appearance by all surviving accounts.
She was NOT black african, or even Arab Egyptian in appearance...Arab Egyptians invaded much later, replacing much of the Hellenistic population. While there were most certainly Black Egyptians, Cleopatra was not one of them.
This is 2010 I did not know so much racism was still around. Almost everyone who left a message is racist. May the part go to the actress who can play the part the best and make the most money doing it, despite the color of her skin. There are so many ignorant people out there it's ridiculous. I don't understand why everything has to be about BLACK or WHITE. Grow up it's 2010 not 1938. I'm mixed race so I have the best of both worlds.
oh yes Rihanna or Beyonce would be perfect!!! What a genious idea why haven't we thought of this before? why use Angelina when we have Beyonce and Rihanna????Yes I agree Rihanna should play the role of Cleopatra because as we all know she is a classact and has TONS of talent....not! just look at all the movies she's played in hahahah...
If the movie is about a giant butt or thunder thighs, Beyonce is a shoe-in.
So how is this any different from when Brandy played a more traditional white role of Cinderella? Who really cares about whether the movie is historically acurate? If the acting is good it will carry itself.
All wrong, Cleopatra was Asian...jeez people!
She was a martian. DUH!
First I'm black and who really cares if Angelina plays the part. She will probably be very good in the movie. Second people are people are people are people. Everything should not be a race issue. There are bigger issues going on in the world right now other than race. I am proud to have African, Caucasion, Native American, Asian, German and whatever else pulse through my veins. It does NOT matter. Give it a rest.
Good post Stacie. You are correct.
Stacie,
It is so nice to see a sane person in here.
I totally agree. I am white, but I am tired of whites being marginalized when not appropriate. Yes, all colors and cultures can claim SOMETHING. But please don't take away from an historical figure who was, in fact, WHITE. I wish all black people were as sane and intelligent as you appear to be.
bust of Cleopatra carved during her lifetime - she looks rather greek to me... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Kleopatra-VII.-Altes-Museum-Berlin1.jpg But aside from skin tone issues, Angie is prob the best actress to portray a woman as complicated, coniving, charismatic and politically brilliant - beyond the lips, she has "the look" that can express so much in her eyes – depth of info.
Well, let's see, Mr. Obama can probably enact a law making it mandatory that Hollywood hire only the right color actor that the government believes should be used for the roles in each movie it makes! Who needs freedom?
Don't you see that comments like that fuel racism. Not all Black people agree with other Black people say. She was not Black, she was not White, so there.
Black people pretty much suck in every way.
LOL!.........Some white people are soooooo bitter. Well "Real talk" I'm sure in real life you would never make such a statement......therefore continue to stay bitter and angry at a entire race of people and keep hiding behind that keyboard. Closet racist are the worst. LOL!
REAL TALK....YOU SAID BLACK PEOPLE SUCK...YOU ARE A RACIST PIG.
If not Jolie- then who? What would have been better casting? My suggestion: Freida Pinto
Ola Ghanem, as Egyptian actresses go, might be able to pull off the role and look perfectly.Admittedly, I am no historian. It just makes sense to me to have an Egyptian actress play an Egyptian role. In my opinion, however, the ethnicity of the actor/actress rarely makes or breake a movie. It usually comes down to the script.
How about Beyonce, or Rhianna, or any of the other beautiful young black women – Jada Pinkett, so many available. Plus Jolie doesn't really qualify. And she has tats on her that would absolutely be wrong for the part. No, A black woman should/would/could pull this off properly. Jolie – no way!
Linda,
Beyonce, or Rhianna, Jada Pinkett or any of the other beautiful young black women would be a total miscast to play a historical figure like Cleopatra who was WHITE. Casting a black woman to play this role would be historically inaccurate and totally wrong. You might as well cast a white actor to play Malcom X, that's how inaccurately historically it would be to cast a black actress to play a historical role like Cleopatra who was not black.
Cleopatra was most likely of mixed ethnicity – European, Egyptian, and African. Stop freaking out over what type of ethnicity the actress is – their job is to be someone they're not. Plenty of Americans play British roles, and vice versa. It's not a race thing. It's just a movie. Get over it.
Cleopatra was a Ptolemy. They were Greek! She was not an
African woman as everyone who is Black seems to think. The Ptolemy
dynasty was founded when one of Alexander the Great's generals took
over Egypt after Alexander died and his stuff got split up amongst his
generals after his wife and kid were murdered. So who knows what Cleopatra actually looked like?
Probably was NOT all that Black! Neither were the average Egyptians back in the day.
Study some history before you all start yelling, people.
Everyone who is Balck does not think that. Please don't generalize.
CandyLand- You're right: "color" does not always mean "black". However, what we're reacting to is the fact that "Essence" magazine and Clutchmagazineonline.com are the two publications noted for commenting on this story. African Americans are the ones who have picked up the torch on this issue. And we're all wondering..... "why?" Cleopatra wasn't white OR black. So why is the African American community offended? If anything, I'd understand the Egyptian community up in arms... but as it is, this feels like reverse racism. There is nothing WRONG with Jolie playing this role. It's a Hollywood MOVIE for crying out loud. It's not like we're putting Jolie's picture in a history text book!
Again with the African American term...IF I COULD DO ANYTHING IN THE WORLD...I WOULD GET RID OF ALL THE STUPID LABELS WE PUT ON PEOPLE TO DESCRIBE OURSELVES ON THE OUTSIDE...GOOD GRIEF!
OK, here's the thing with most A/As, and it's a legitimate gripe...
Imagine, you're an actress, awaiting your big chance, one comes along you feel you were meant for, I mean...let's take Dorothy Dandridge (you probably don't even know who she is...so let's go with Jennifer Beals)....and they're making a movie about her life.....the writer wants someone who looks like Jennifer Lopez...but wait! JLo is Hispanic and she has a little bit of an accent..and this IS after-all about Jennifer Beals' life (the one from Flash Dance btw)....well, she is black and white...and she had the life experiences of someone who is black and white....why would you choose someone....wait wait wait....here's an even better example....
Do you think Beyonce should have had an opportunity to play the role of Selena? Can you imagine how many people would have been angry behind that? I don't blame them....no, Selena was no Madonna (and what if they wanted Angela Bassett to be Madonna????)
To say that a person's background has nothing to do with role selection would be a fabrication and deceptive. It does in every way except when dealing with people of color.
If a woman was fair skinned....instead of finding a fair skinned non-white person...hollywood would rather choose a white person to play the part. It is still maintained in Hollywood (despiet mother earth Oprah getting up and lying to that poor obese girl about having a future) that thin, blonde, and white is the American Standard of Beauty....
That's the big deal with the A/A community.....
Those magazines do not speak for the whole African-American community. It is the opinion of the writers.
HERE'S A NOVEL IDEA PEOPLE (THOUGHT MOST OF YOU HEATHENS WOULD NOT HAVE THE PRESENCE OF MIND TO DO SO)....
CHECK OUT NOAH'S THREE SONS by ARTHUR C. CUSTANCE (WHITE FOR ALL YOU RACISTS) or SONS OF NOAH ON WIKIPEDIA.....
NOT ONE OF YOU JERKS PROBABLY CARE TO EDUCATE YOURSELVES ON ANTHING DEALING WITH 'BLACKS' OR PEOPLE OF COLOR, BUT JUST SO YOU KNOW.....YOU COULD LEARN SOMETHING ABOUT YOUR RACIST SELVES AS WELL.
OK. The best selling work of fiction in the world says we're all related becaue our ancestors were naughty little monkeys. Is this the point were we all hold hands and sing Kumbayah?
Every time you post I feel like someone is grinding a big wedge of stupid into my eye.
So, what colored (meaning simply not-very white) actress should have the part? Hey! How about Nicole Scherzinger! I bet she could do it. And talk about exotic seductive beauty, you need to see her "Jai-Ho!" video on the net, and you will see what I mean. Then again, she is more Hawaiian/Fillipino looking than Egyptian, but she would make a lot more sense than Jolie, IMO. I just like Nicole, she is my Goddess......
Check your history books angry people. Cleopatra was Greek, not African or Egyptian.
If she was of Ethiopian or Nubian descent that may be true; but, she was of Greek descent. Get over the politics
The real question should be, who is going to play in the remake of CLEOPATRA JONES?
Lucy Lue?
BEYONCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL
I guess you haven heard...they have already cast Ann Coulter as the role of Cleopatra Jones...It was in Essence!
Your a clown- since when do they teach clowns to type at DeVry?
Personally, I don't care who plays Cleopatra!! That's the problem now with everyone, Afro-Americans, Whites, Asians, Latinos, or whatever. If one ounce of historical fact is wrong then there has to be a huge uproar about it. I will throw it out there Afro-Americans are guilty of being the leader on this. Yes, there was distorted truth about a lot of Afro-American truth through out history! Come on America, lets move past this!! If you really want to help society, learn the truth, pass it on to your children and teach them everyone is flawed in some way. No one should be disliked based totally on their race. How long must we as a society continue to re-inforce racial divides. If Angela Jolie plays Cleopatra fine!! If Jennifer Lopez played Cleopatra fine who cares!! If you think you know the truth good on you!! Its just a movie!! None of us were around 1000+ years ago. What we think we all know is from someone else's study! That person could've been an idiot too!! In case anyone wants to know I'm Afro-American!! Todays theme is: Move on or get left behind!!!
She was GREEK. Dark-skinned, dark-eyed, but not African. I'm glad there are educated people on these message boards, because nobody in Hollywood seems to have a clue.
And because she was inbred she probably had hemophilia, too. For the record I have never liked the euphemism that suggests Africa=black. The entire human race sprang from Africa, all colors. We are ALL Africans, ALL sons and daughters of Africa regardless of color, not just African-Americans. North Africans (including Egyptians and the Islamic desert culture), equatorial Africa (majority dark-skinned people), and South Africans (Dutch culture) are all African continent residents. Africa's diaspora is the entire world. When are we going to stop all this division? No one race or culture owns Africa and never has!
Cleopatra was of Greek descent, NOT African. It's a shame how desperate some African Americans are in their attempts to rewrite history. Be proud of the historic people you CAN claim, and stop trying to claim someone who most definitely does NOT share your heritage. I object to Jolie playing Cleopatra because I object to Jolie in general. If she collected dogs or cats the way she collects kids, she'd be considered a hoarder.
Wait, is this for who gets to be Cleopatra in real life? If not, lighten up people...its only a movie. If you don't like Angelina Jolie playing her, excercise your right to vote......its called your wallet. Use it...or don't
As a Black woman, I have no problem with Angelina playing Cleopatra. She is a great actress and I think that she would play the role well as she has done with all of her other roles. She is not going to be painting her skin with Black shoe polish singing old show tunes. Sure there are others no doubt who can play this role, but she has been chosen.ans I am fine with that. We have to get to a point where we are willing to give what we request. Aretha Frankllin wants Halle Berry to play her in her lifestory. They have race and gender in common. Diana Ross looked nothing like Billie Holiday. At some point we are going to have to grow. The only disrespect here is people being mad at Angelina because some respects her craft enough to think she can pull it off. I would play Eleanor Roosevelt if asked, it would be an honor that someone thinks I could. We are mad at the wrong person. I
Seriously???? No one here is mad at Angie...No one is disputing her obviously Oscar quality abilities. FOR THE RECORD ANGIE ROCKS! SHE'S GORGEOUS, EDUCATED, TALENTED, AND HAS A HEART FOR PEOPLE, and most importantly NOT A RACIST!
I AM, however, SICK of the Hollywood blackout and b/s, and of ignorant, closet racist, whites who defend if not propogate that practice.
Another White Actress to Play Cleopatra?” where the writer opined, “Honestly, I don't care how full Angelina Jolie's lips are, how many African children she adopts, or how bronzed her skin will become for the film, I firmly believe this role should have gone to a Black woman.”
That is the quote from the article. The lady did not say a woman of color but BLACK. Cleo was not BLACK. If she had said they need to find a person of Eygptian/Greek/African/Redneck decent then it would be different. But to make a comment that says that the woman playing the role should be black shows a lack of intelligence or that she might be a bit prejudice.
I don't know why black people want to declare Cleopatra to be black? She was of Greek Macedonian descent as were her father and mother. The Ptolemy Dynasty usually married thier own family members thus preserving the royal lineage's blood line' purity. Cousins, sisters etc were all fair game which was the case of Cleo's Mother. To conjecture that Cleo was black or partially black is just people playing race-politics. Certainly Roman historians of the time would have remarked that she was black.
I could not have said it better. Cleopatra was from a long line of Greek king, and was the seventh Queen to hold the name Cleopatra. There is no evidence that she was black. She was an intelligent woman and was the first of the House of Ptolemy to learn the Egyptian language. From her portraits she may not have been attractive.
Thank you my husband is a Roman and I am African American he told me that Cleopatra was Black that,s when I found out
the Romans did not like her at all
Folks, this is a movie, not real life. So, it matters not whether Angelina is white or black - it's up to the people casting and paying for the movie. If you disagree with the choice, don't go see the movie - just like I won't see the gutter trash that passes for "other" movies
It's funny how, now, White people are trying to claim every single race under the sun as their own, when historically (in America), they have always been about what ethnicities "they" aren't, and are better than. Italians and Greeks were shunned, because they were more ethnic looking (as in dark skin). Flash forward to today, when the REAL history of their world tyranny is much more well known then is was before the 1900's, and you have more and more Whites just claiming ALL of European countries as White.
Too funny.
Especially the person who said "If anything, Angelina isn't White enough"!!!! LMAO
My have the tables have turned, now that most of the world population is now "of color", and here in America, no one gives a rats *ss about you people anymore. But, keep trying to win my affections with your "See, we're just like you; we have dark skin, are "ethnic", and aren't racist (anymore)" bullcrap. I find it hilarious!!!
It must suck for you not being white.
Uh, almost 70% of the US population is white. No one cares about white people anymore? You're a racist idiot.
You sound like a racist yourself and like YOU have a problem NOT being white. Who cares?
Wow, you sound REALLY bitter. I wouldn't want to carry that kind of bitterness.
Yes, it's hilarious how "white people don't matter anymore", whatever that means!
What are you talking about, LakrsN7? Italians and Greeks were always viewed as white by Europeans. and they aren't any darker then most other Southern, Eastern or South Eastern Europeans. Anyone who has studied these people would never claim they aren't white because they look totally like your typical Europeans. Unless you ignorantly believe that white people only come in one range color: Nordic blond blue eyed types which is totally inaccurate. Just as there variations of shades for black people so is there a variations of shades for white people. What I find too funny is black trying to claim every group of people as 'colored' another the world even when they are not.
I would never, ever see a movie with Angelina Jolie in it. I don't care how much the movie interested me.
Ancient Egyptians were part of the first Arab civilizations. They were never black. So get over it. I didn't hear this much complaining when she took on the role of Alexanders mother, Olympias, or when Brad Pitt took on the roll of Achellis...and let me tell you, he is NOT Greek at all. Didn't hear anyone complaining then. Angelina Jolie is perfect for this role, she probably worked hard for it, and for some blacks to come out and say that she shouldn't have gotten the role because she's not colored, and not know the true history behind Egyptians? Hmmm....sounds a little racists to me!
And the funny thing, Sara, is that Olympias (played by Jolie) was also a Greek and not only a Greek but her son Alexander the Great and her husband King Philip, played by Val Kilmer, belonged to the same Greek tribe that Cleopatra belonged to: the Macedonians; and Alexander as well as King Philip were ancestors of Cleopatra. LOL! Personally Jolie can pass for a Greek so she was perfect for the role of Olympias and she is perfect for the role of Cleopatra two historically Greek women. 😉
Egyptians were never black? That's like saying the British were never white because of how their country looks today.
How about reading some history? How about studying the hieroglyphics?
Cleopatra wasn't an Egyptian, IACTUALLREAD, so she was never black.
Best way to stop Jolie's career – if you don't like her – is to STOP SEEING HER MOVIES! I have. I cannot stand her.
You stopped going to and watching Angelina Jolie's movies, yet she's still one of the highest paid actresses in the country. You really showed HER!
One can only speculate on the skin color of the real Cleopatra. So I offer this solution – use several different actresses to play Cleo in the various stages of her life. I'd suggest Lucy Liu, Eva Longoria, Halle Berry, Kathy Bates, Oprah, Ellen DeGeneres and Betty White. Maybe throw in RuPaul , Boy George and an actress from Bollywood. Now you're hitting all colors, ages, lifestyles, etc. and everybody should be happy!
Eygpt history is not ARAB history. ARABs didn't even come into Egypt unti 640 a.d. ... so everyone is not thinking that infantile BS.
What unmitigated racism and cultural mis-appropriation by the 'politically correct'. Cleopatra was a Ptolemaic greek. She wasn't a nubian! They are rift w/ inbreeding in an attempt to keep the family lineage intact. No way some person of color was going to get into that woodpile! Sorry folks, unless you got some proof, your just trying to create proof by consensus rather than fact! Might help if people bothered to study history first!
Cleopatra was NOT an Eqyptian. The Eqyptians imported their ruling class, most likely from Macedonia.
Read some history before you babble. Now Jesus Christ, yeah he was a black man.
Um... Jesus was a Jew. Dark maybe, but not black in the sub-Saharan way that most people mean when they say black. Middle-Eastern. Probably looked similar to Arabs. He was supposed to be tall and handsome. He probably looked more like Osama bin Laden than Barack Obama.
"W" is my new hero. Thanks for saying what everyone is thinking.
That makes you an idiot too. You keep good company.
Weren't the Nubian's that ruled for a time African? Cleopatra could have been dark skinned but I'm pretty sure they have a profile of her on a coin and a bust and to she looks more Greek/Roman than African. I think some people just need to read a bit and get over themselves.
AngieB, the Nubians ruled Egypt centuries before the Greeks came in. When the Greeks took over it was the Persians who were ruling Egypt for hundreds of years. People seem to forget the historical Persian rule of Egypt. 😉
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Achaemenid_Egypt
You do realize that it is a movie....right?
If you don't like whomever is in it THEN DON'T GO SEE IT.
Look at images of those Egyptian coins and tell the world, who actually looks like this woman?!! Of course it doesn't matter because Hollywood will always pick someone based on looks more than acting ability or accuracy.
Cleopatra was of Macedonian descent – the Ptolemy's. Therefore she was Caucasian. People need to correctly know their history.
Let's be honest about what the true problem is. Black Americans are desperate for a history that they can be proud of so they try to include Arab, Muslim and North African history as Black History. Yes, there has been a great mixing of races in North Africa but the Egytians are not black. The Saraha Desert is as great an obstacle as any ocean for dividing races. There is a difference between those living in North Africa and those living in Sub Saharan Aftica.
The problem is you don't see a lot of great historical monuments in Sub Saharan Africa. Yes, there were ancient kingdoms but it's hard to put a kingdom of cattle herders up against those that built the pyramids, castles or the Roman Roads.
So what do you do? You pick the brownest looking people that you can find, claim they are really Black and quote some unknown flake with a PHD bethind his name and a love of racial conspiracies.
Yes, you are an idiot. White Americans have a real fine history. It's start with what...killing millions of Indians, enslaving Africans, burning 'witches' alive, ....hmmm...yup...just fine history.
No the real problem is white people who want to make up history. They want everyone to be "white". So they try to make up their own history and hide the truth. This has ALWAYS been the case. Ancient Egyptians were black and Africa is where civilization started.......and white people have never come to terms with that. It's really sad and I hope that one day you all will get over it. But until then I guess you will continue to make ignorant statements in an attempt to get people to believe YOUR MADE UP VERSION OF HISTORY.
Americans didn't burn witches. They hanged them.
And yet once again, someone is speaking for the whole Back race. Black people do have a history. Most of this country was build on slave labor. who did all the work. Come on!!!! I do not claim that she was White or Black. Every race wants to own something or somebody. Who's right, who's wrong? The Black people want her, the White people want her. It's coming from both sides. It's a movie. You people are unbelievable!!!!
Hmmm......I see a lot of people here are students of the Nation Of Islam History/Propaganda course for felons and High School dropouts.
Ok W we have a history over a thousand years , when you were living in caves, on top of that all you did was to go around stilling other peoples land just like you did here lying and stilling that is your HISTORY!!! May GOD forgive you
Yes Candyland, you're so mad because you don't like learning that you're wrong. Just because Greek society had people from around the known world at that time, doesn't mean that Cleopatra was any darker. Using your logic, anyone that's successful and has a tan s/b considered a person of color. Just as stupid as if I insist that a movie about Michael Jordan uses a white guy to play the part because Michael looked a little light sometimes.
sometimes?
Actually, Cleopatra VII was Greek. She also had a hook nose and was short and fat. Her physical appearance is confirmed by contemporary representations of her in coinage and statuary. Angelina Jolie has none of these features. Clearly, Ms. Jolie is getting this part because she is famous and beautiful, but she does not in any resemble the historical figure who also, by the way, was not sub-Saharan African as many would like to believe.
If to take a historically objective approach on this, Cleopatra was Greek, and therefore not black. So why all this commotion?
Angie is a very talented actress, and she is perfect for this role.
Apparently CNN doesn't like my take on how Cleopatra really looked. Like Medusa from a popular movie in the 1980's! Truth hurts!
Does this mean if I have white ancestors (slave owners) I'm white too?
No, just darned lucky.
?
I'm all for Angie playing Cleopatra! As an actress she can do no wrong. She'd even make a decent Wonder Woman. She'd never top Lucy Lawless, but she'd be a good one. As long as Jennifer UGH Hewitt doesn't play either character, I'll be happy!
Don't you all go messin around and try and re-do Wonder Woman. Linda Carter had that role on lock. Can't none of those skinny twigs that are in Hollywood right now do justice to that role up to the standards of Ms. Carte. As a matter of fact, I'm calling the League of Justice to report you. Stand by for a call from Aqua-Man! =)
Cleopatra VII was one of the daughters of Ptolemy Auletes who descended from Ptolemy I, the smart Macedonian general who grabbed Egypt after Alexander's death. As first co-ruler, then the last pharonic ruler of Egypt, Cleopatra minted several coins with her image. Look at the coins – she's a graceo-macedonian ruler of a North African country.
From Dr. Zawass's Wikipedia Page:
Opposition to Afrocentrists
He is opposed to the claims of Afrocentrists.[13] According to Hawass "Tutankhamun was not black, and the portrayal of ancient Egyptian civilization as black has no element of truth to it."
And for the record.....an EDUCATED Black Person....ALREADY KNOWS CLEO WASN'T AN AFRICAN...WE'RE ONLY SAYING THAT HER SKIN COLOR WAS NOT WHITE...LIKE YOU WANT TO BELIEVE...HER SKIN WAS LIKELY THE COLOR OF A CARDBOARD BOX!
To be fair, Candyland... White is a color. If you're using light spectrums, white is EVERY color. Science is fun, eh?
CandyLand. I do know the difference between black and "of color." We all do. We just disagree with your original posting.
Candyland: Let me lay it out this way, you are a very angry person. But, Cleopatra was Greek, not just a little Greek, but a lot Greek, As a matter of fact all Greek. Otherwise she would never have been made queen. Next, have you ever been to Greece? They have very beautiful Olive colored skin, when they spend every day outside in the beautiful weather they have over there. When a Greek child is born their skin is porcelain white, after they get older and retreat from the sun their skin again goes porcelain white. Now as Cleopatra was Greek and was queen you can naturally assume that she was very covered and not permitted to see the sun on her skin. Does that make it easier for you to understand? By the way, I don't have a problem with people of color but I do have a problem with people distorting history.
Cleopatra was in fact, GREEK. NOT Eqyptian 🙂
Don't know why everyone gets their feathers ruffled over nothing. If you want to problem solve, concentrate on the war this country's in, Iran's nuclear arms project, and how about the impact the oil disaster in the gulf is going to have on the eco system and people's livelihood. Now that's worth commenting on... silly folks.
I think youre all missing an even bigger fact here- when cleopatra died she was only 39 years old. Her sons were born when she was ~25... Angelina is 35. Why does hollywood insist upon hiring people for parts when theyre a decade older than the part should call for. I know makeup can do incredible things these days, but why not find a talented young actress who can fit the role instead of just going for a big name because you think itll pull in more revenue!?
So what if Cleo wasn't black? Like Goodwillhuntin above, I gotta be me and represent her as a strong black woman. Jesus is black, too. So is Genghis Khan, George Washington and even Jerry Seinfeld. I say Gabourey Sidibe plays Cleo and shows large and in charge black women rule. Besides, if Cleo wasn't black, how come that lady on Psychic Network is named Cleo and she black, huh?
What?
You just set us back about 50 years but that was some funny s***!
you are ridic, your not even making sense! did you even think about what you wrote??
Actually, Cleopatra was mixed. Look it up in the history books essence. I still agree that Jolie shouldn't play her, but I don't think that a person who is only composed of one color should play her either.
u sounds like u want to play this role so bad, lol. u r such a poor thing, jealous/hate someone is obviously far beautiful and talent and fabulous than u =:(
Another perfect example that the African American should focus on educating themselves or they would've known the Cleopatra the movie will be based upon ( The one we all know) was of Greek decent not African.
You need to go read a history book. The bloodline was mixed Ancient Egyptian (not white) and Greek. Therefore she was mixed. Your ignorance is a perfect example of why white people should stop trying to rewrite HISTORY. Get your mind right, and learn something before you make such ignorant statements.
Mark, the Ptolemaic Dynasty bloodline was not a mix of anything, they married each other in order to keep the bloodline that way, and it was Ancient Greek...NOTHING ELSE. For crips sake read a history book
Most of what you F'ing idiots know about Egypt is white washed BS. And by the time there were people of different shades inside Egypt was well after that Black civilization began to be invaded by uncouth barbarians; not unlike the one's that are running the collapsing civilization we live in now.
You mean barbarians like Obama? After all, he is a world leader, so that must mean our black president is one of those "running the collapse of civilization." Or is it only the white blood in him that makes him a barbarian?
You nailed it! Obama is the perfect President because he is half black, half white, with a muslim name, and practices christianity. No matter what happens, he has it covered. If he makes a horrible decision, the whites can blame that mistake on his black half while the blacks blame the white half. When he decides to blow up more muslim terrorists (not all muslims are terrorist, but all terrorist are muslim, or is it the other way around), he can use his christian beliefs to support his decision, and when the muslim countries try to blame him, he can use his muslim name and past to gain insight and access to leaders that won't give a christian or jewish believer the time of day. I think this works out, or maybe I have it backwards. Either way, the scenario should work. Wow, we should nickname him the Camelion president.
Now that we've established that Cleopatra wasn't black, as none of the Ptolemies were and almost none of the Pharoahs, let's get down to the real question. Angelina is hot, but she's too old for the part. Cleopatra was a teen when Rome arrived in Egypt. This will be about as believable as when Jolie played a teen alongside Matt Damon in a movie a couple years ago. Has anyone seen a teen? They don't look like 40-50 year old people with longer hair or bigger teeth. Time to crank up the Dreamworks Magic special effects and an industrial air brush kit....
Yours was the first post that hit on my thoughts exactly...Jolie is too old to play this part. Is she gorgeous? Without a doubt but she looks her age. I'm assuming the movie will be spread out over some years and I don't think Jolie can pull off a teenager or twenty-something any longer.
Yep, America the COLOR STRUCK NATION: Jesus Christ is white, presented to us by a gay man-Michael Angelo. Mohammed has no picture; one reason Islam will take over the world. God is presented as white, even the unknown is white. You talk about Egypt not being dark skinned or blacks do any of the names today in Egypt sound like KING TUT? They all have Muslim’s name. Visit Egypt, there is some place where mostly the dark skinned people still celebrate KING TUT. What’s next Lady GAGA will play QUEEN OD SHEBA. What a joke.
It's Michelangelo, not Michael Angelo. And he was Italian, not gay. I can see where the confusion might stem from though.
Since when are movies entirely historically accurate? Why does this film need to be an exception?
What do I think? I think Cleopatra was from a Greek family, the Ptolomey's, that had captured the Egyptian thrones years before. I think they intermarried with each other for generations, and didn't mix with the "lower class" local (Arab) Egyptian subjects, and certainly not with the Nubians from the south. Thus, I think it is highly unlikely Cleopatra would have looked anything like a modern African American. Not the Hollywood History gives a damn about accuracy, but this kind of talk is just more fantasy on top of a speculative subject. Jolie is as good a candidate as any for a Greek ex-pat living in Egypt.
Why not a Causcasian actress? Cleopatra was Greek. Check out the Ptolemaic Dynasty...all descended from one of Alexander's GREEK generals. Since when were Greeks African/Black?
Yes...But...Wasn't Cleopatra descended from one of Alexander the Great's Generals (a Greek)? The period between was about 150 years. All the deptictions of her, ancient and modern, are of a caucasian girl.
Is it really necesary to have yet another Cleopatra movie to begin with?
*grin*...well, seems a lot of other people have pointed out Cleo's heritage. That's what I get for leaving my computer to get some coffee & not refreshing the page. LOL.
If this movie was about Basketball or Hip Hop they'd probably cast a black person.
But it's about a woman who slept around and murdered her siblings.....perfect role for a white women
... or robbing convenience stores
What if I said “if the movie was about a woman killing her children in a bath tub, or a man murdering his pregnant wife to kick it with his new girlfriend or a serial killer he eats his victims.”, it would be perfect for a white actor? How about a movie about meth labs? Or corporate crimes (a lot more villainous than robbing a 7/11 right?) When will you clowns stop using socially economic based crimes as superiority flags or a blanket for your own insecurities? A man who robs a corner store in the ghetto is far more evil than a clown at Citi Bank scheming ways to rob us all daily right?
who cares? Its ACTING. you don't have to be of a particular race to play that corresponding race. Next, we'll have what? only handicapped people can play handicapped people? only gay people can play gay people? only aliens can play aliens? only superman can play superman? only bruce wayne can play batman? lol
Actually, Cleopatra PATERNAL lineage was Greek, but Ptolemy insisted on marrying Ancient Egyptian women to keep the Bloodline ROYAL. You CANNOT confuse modern day egyptians (who are arabs who moved into the country) with ancient BLACK egyptians who ruled the country prior to being overthrown by invaders (persians, then greeks). Therefore, Cleopatra would have looked like modern day African Americans, who are a mixture of caucasion and african ancestry!!! Even in Ancient egyptian drawings and statues, the egyptians painted Cleopatra as a black woman..GOOGLE the pics, not the words of modern day people!!!
Actually your completely wrong. The Cleopatra of the legend we all know, had a coin made with her image on it and guess what? She's just Caucasian
Um actually Lyn, he's right!!! You want her to be white so bad but guess what she's not, so deal with it. She was mixed.
Thank you Mark. You cannot continue to throw up one coin made in a Greek image and totally disregard the temples and statues (and paintings) that DO exist of Cleopatra! Just because they never show those images on TLC or Discovery channel does not mean it doesn't exist!
@Mark. Yeeeahh... Noo.. Cleopatra was only Greek. The Ptolomies kind of "kept it in the family," there was no mixing. She was pretty fair and, according to written descriptions, very unattractive.
Actually David, you are totally wrong, Cleopatra would have looked nothing like any black African or AA woman given the Ptolemies did NOT intermix outside their Greek-Macedonian lineage. The Ptolemies did not produce children with Egyptian royals given the Egyptians were not ruling Egypt when the Greeks came to rule the country, the PERSIANS were. Needless to say the Ptolemies didn 't intermix neither with Egyptians nor anyone else outside their royal Greek-Macedonian bloodline, So no Cleopatra didn't look like any African-American woman because historical evidence including busts and coins of Cleopatra clearly show her as white European woman.
Laurie, what are you talking about? All of the Cleopatras including the most famous one Cleopatra VII were of Greek origins. Not one of them was Egyptian and the Ptolemies were not a mix of Greek and Egyptian bloodlines because the Ptolemies did not intermix outside their own Greek Macedonian lineage. Up until Ptolemaic rule of Egypt ended, and yes that including the most famous of the Cleopatras. the Ptolemies never called themselves nor viewed themselves as Egyptians, they always were Macedonians.
"The Ptolemaic kings and queens of Egypt liked to be called Macedonians, as in fact that is what they were" ~ Pausanias
J Hell Stud. 2005;125:1-34.
Familiarity breeds: incest and the Ptolemaic Dynasty.
Ager SL.
University of Waterloo.
This paper examines the problem of Ptolemaic incest from a variety of cross-disciplinary perspectives. Specifically, it seeks to establish the following: that there is little in the ancient record to support the any claim that the Ptolemies suffered extensively from the deleterious genetic effects of inbreeding; that the various theories so far put forward as explanations for Ptolemaic incest offer at best only a partial rationale for this dynastic practice; that the most compelling rationale for Ptolemaic incest is to be found in complex, and perhaps unconscious, symbolic motivations analogous to those observed by anthropologists in other cultures; and finally, that, for the Ptolemies, incest was, like the "truphê" for which they were so notorious, a dynastic signature which highlighted their singularity and above all, their power.
Cleoratra was a Ptolemy, Greek, and white. Only the Greeks can truly lay claim to her. Her first husband was her brother Ptolemy XIII. Her second husband was her brother Ptolemy XIV. All coins and surviving statuary show a woman with caucasian features, none too pretty, but nonetheless, white. As if this is even a question that should be pondered.
Technically Angie would be right on the money since Cleooatra was part of the Ptolomy dynasty who were greeks.
For the under educated, there were at least 12 different Cleopatras. The most "famous" was not Greek but Egyptian (from the Ptolemaic lines which were mixed Greek/Egyptian bloodlines), with some Greek blood. Ancient Egyptians were not ever black. Current Egyptians, with the mixture of Arabic blood, now look more Arabic but the Ancients were more closly related to Persian descent (i.e the Hebrew, Babylonian, Mesopotamian). This is clearly demonstrated in their artwork. Just because they have full lips doesn't mean they're black. My brother-in-law, who is a Coptic Egyptian, has full lips and does not look black. That being said, Angelina Jolie is a TERRIBLE choice. She cannot act and looks nothing like an ancient egyptian. There are several wonderful actresses that would fill the part beautifully. Necar Zadegan (most recently on "24") would be an excellent choice. She's actually too pretty for Cleopatra but at least she looks the part and can ACT.
Laurie, what are you talking about? All of the Cleopatras including the most famous one Cleopatra VII were of Greek origins. Not one of them was Egyptian and the Ptolemies were not a mix of Greek and Egyptian bloodlines because the Ptolemies did not intermix outside their own Greek Macedonian lineage. Up until Ptolemaic rule of Egypt ended, and yes that including the most famous of the Cleopatras. the Ptolemies never called themselves nor viewed themselves as Egyptians, they always were Macedonians.
"The Ptolemaic kings and queens of Egypt liked to be called Macedonians, as in fact that is what they were" ~ Pausanias
J Hell Stud. 2005;125:1-34.
Familiarity breeds: incest and the Ptolemaic Dynasty.
Ager SL.
University of Waterloo.
This paper examines the problem of Ptolemaic incest from a variety of cross-disciplinary perspectives. Specifically, it seeks to establish the following: that there is little in the ancient record to support the any claim that the Ptolemies suffered extensively from the deleterious genetic effects of inbreeding; that the various theories so far put forward as explanations for Ptolemaic incest offer at best only a partial rationale for this dynastic practice; that the most compelling rationale for Ptolemaic incest is to be found in complex, and perhaps unconscious, symbolic motivations analogous to those observed by anthropologists in other cultures; and finally, that, for the Ptolemies, incest was, like the "truphê" for which they were so notorious, a dynastic signature which highlighted their singularity and above all, their power.
Ms Jolie can act very well as long as the part is an over the top portrayal which fits Cleopatra to a tea. Having Ms Jolie play a housewife is a bad match, having her play a famously intriguing Queen is perfect. Its the match of actor to part that matters. Arnold was a perfect terminator, one of the best portrayals of a robot ever, and few would say he is a great actor.
Read some history, people. Cleopatra VII was a descendant of the Greek Macedonian general, Ptolemy, who was a military commander under Alexander the Great. There is no evidence that she was anything other than Greek Macedonian. If anything, the role perhaps should go to a Greek or Macedonian actress.
History, shmistory. Lets see Angiie's royal tatas!
Saying a person of color(meaning BLACK) should play a white Greek woman who just happened to be ruler of Egypt, being descended from the Ptolemies, is akin to saying Oprah should play Barbara Bush because she is fat and has a nice smile.
Black people need to stop the overt racist comments and realize that BLACK Africa means SUB SAHARAN Africa and ARAB Africa means the Africa that les above the Sahara Desert.
Of course the problem is people need to be educated in some form or another to understand that distinction. Apparently, those who cry for a black actress to play the role either do not understand or know the history or choose to ignore it by crying racism, a typical thing to do to get their way.
No such luck here, uneducated masses. Keep voting skin color too–see what that will get you.
What would a white person know you all came out cave
Cleopatra was as "black" as Barack Obama! Oh, I get it! If the white person involved in the mixed race child (Greek/Egyptian) is famous, then the child is "white". If not, then the child is ANYTHING other than white! Thanks...
So,Is that why the media always forgets to mention Obama is only half black.People seem to forget his white half.
@ Bull: No one forgets that Obama is half white. But, our society has not advanced to the point where he isn't, in the minds of most people, a black man. Interesting that some whites insist on pointing out his whiteness when, for so long, a drop of black blood made you black. Perhaps his degreee of whiteness makes him more human to some?
This is an old and tiring argument as to Cleopatra's race, etc. She was Greek...could have been of mixed race...but most of us are...so who cares to plays her in a movies...Angelina Jolie will be perfect!
Maybe Jen Aniston could be one of her women in waiting.
yeah Play Cleopatra, but act like Rachel Green, like all her other movies.
not sure if u r trying to make hugh fun to this poor 41trying to look like 21, or u r totally crazy in mind?
Colol, then she can start dating whoever plays Marc Anthony. Golly, I hope it's Brad Pitt!
WHO CARES!!!! NEXT!!!!!!!!!!
Angelina Jolie and Cate Blanchet are probably the two best living actresses in the US. If I were a director, I would want one of them to play Cleopatra (a Greek, white skinned female). Why would you cast an African American to portray a white person? I think everyone learned a lesson after Catwoman. That film was a disaster. Granted, Halle Berry is really not a very good actress, but that was only part of it...
Angelina in the same league as Cate Blanchet? Seriously????????
Vera Shula are you really American your name don,t sound like it maybe you should go back where you came from
um really cleopatra was mixed and really she would have been more tanish brown like most from the mideast area ... what i think people have to understand race then did not mean much it was what country you were a citizen of... and the ptolemys had already mixed with different races from syria in the royal line ... so really she would have been of mixed desent and from all of us mixed kids out there like me know for a fact that sometimes you come out way lighter or darker than that of your parents so jolie is a fine choice for me
Chris –
Please scroll up to my reply above. Essentially, Cleopatra was an inbred daughter of Macedonians, who did NOT mix their royal line with that of Egyptians or other peoples. The ancient Macedonians came from a nation that was very fair-skinned, unlike the complexions of most Mediterranean nations today.
Exactly Cleopatra was Greek-Macedonian. Her family INBRED a LOT to preserve their royal lineage. She came from the Greek tribe of Macedonians. Anyone who has ever studied ancient Greek tribes would know the Macedonians were FAIR COLORED, the intense inbreeding among the Ptolemies help preserve their fair coloring. Back then and to this day Greeks tent to be fairer in color then most Egyptians.
I agree with Chris L. I believe she was mixed. And since none of us were there, the only thing we can do is speculate. Considering her descendants lived in Egypt for hundreds of years, i find it hard to believe that she would be purely Greek. But is it possible sure? The point is, we don't know for sure so it shouldn't be such a big deal that a white woman is playing the role of Cleopatra.
All I have to say is, if these two are in the movie, I will certainly skip it. PLEASE! There HAS to be other actors out there besides these two. I am sick of seeing them, hearing about them and I'm sick of people thinking that they hung the moon. Get some NEW talent up on the screens.
I love Egypt and would love to see a new movie about it, but with these flakes playing the roles....I could care less.
why u all take so personal here, black or white is not the issue here, it is the movie, it is far important for the movie maker(s) what actor they pick can bring the most $$$ TO The STUDIO.
As an African-American woman...l did as a child find it kind of confusing that white women always protrayed Cleopatra but that was how Hollywood worked in those days. Now I understand the concept of what it means to be an 'actor' and feel that anyone....whatever color they may naturally be...should be given the chance to portray a historical figure. It's acting.... that's part of the process! I love Angelina and am already looking forward to seeing this film.
Kim, you are a true HUMAN being not mincing about anything of race. We are all human after all.
No, it wasn't how Hollywood worked in those days, it's because Cleopatra was Greek.
@ Kim!!! Go Chicka!!!! At least it's one black female not caught in the hype of this racist stuff going on! As a black woman, I don't care who plays the role as long as they are talented and Jolie fits the bill!!!
Hey Kim,
I understand your Concern about Blacks not playing the roles that they should in Movies.. BUT Cleopatra was not a TRUE Egyptian.. She was actually of Macedonian Blood.. her last name was Ptolemy.. she was the last decendent of the Ptolemy empire that came from the death of Alexander the Great.. so Angelina playing the role of Cleopatra is not really that far of a fetch,, seeing that she played Alexanders Mother in "Alexander".... Just Saying.. Thats why there are History Books...
Really I think Adam Lambert should play Cleopatra. Hollywood has gone gay now days so he would fit the Bill, LOL!
good one ! he certainly has the right eyeliner 🙂
How about Perez Hilton?
I am a Black Man, and I believe the best Female actress to play Cleopatra would be the girl from Men In Black 2; She has the look of someone who could be Greek, or Egyptian. Look her up!
the reason she won't get the part is because she is "the girl from Men In Black 2". Enough said.
Ooo... you're right. She would be awesome!
@ Jacko!!! AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! That was funny MIB2 was a great movie.....LOL!! She would be good, she was hot though
Rosario Dawson! Yes, she would be perfect... and she's Puerto Rican which shouldn't offend anyone.
RRROOOTTTFFFFLLLLMMMMAAAAOOOOO!!!! AHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA!!!!! THAT WAS SOOOOOO FREAKIN FUNNY!!!!!! Thx for making my evening!!!!!! LMAO!!!
@ fahQawf RRROOOTTTFFFFLLLLMMMMAAAAOOOOO!!!! AHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA!!!!! THAT WAS SOOOOOO FREAKIN FUNNY!!!!!! Thx for making my evening!!!!!! LMAO!!!
That's Risario Dawson. She's Black, Puerto Rican, Irish and Cherokee (I think). She's also very fine...
I think they should just go to Egypt, and cast an Egyptian actress. It can't be that hard to find an Egyptian actress...
Cleoptara was Greek. She was the last in line of the Ptolemaic dynasty. Ptolemy was a Macedonian Greek general, who inherited half of Alexander the Greats empire after he died. The other half went to Seleucus.
She spoke Greek also, and Cleopatra is a Greek name.
In addition, people forget that there are many statues and busts of Cleopatra, cast in her lifetime, as well as minted coins.
In none of these does she have even remotely African features, in fact she had a hook nose, eurasian hair type and thin lips.
Also, the Egyptians themselves were NOT black.
They were in fact related to the Semitic peoples of the near east, and spoke a related language also.
Again, the Egyptians did not portray themselves as Black in art, images of them and Nubians and Puntians depict them as of a different colour, brownish, with more angular features, compared to their pictures of Nubians and Puntians who are depicted with black features and black skin.
Another point here is that none of the Pharaohs mummified corpses yet discovered are that of black men, all are of near eastern physical type, with eurasian hair, and some like Rameses 2nd had huge hooked noses.
Modern Egyptian Coptic Christians are direct descendants of the Ancient Egyptians, having been there since BEFORE the Arabs and Islam arrived, and they are not Black. In fact, they retain a version of ancient egyptian as a religious language.
The whole Cleopatra/Egyptians being black thing is grossly untrue, and actually quite insulting to Egyptians, particularly the Copts.
PS; I have to point out also, that Ancient Egyptians were NOT Arabs, Arabs are actually a fairly recent people. The modern Egyptians have some Arab blood, and have been Arabicized, except for the Copts who are pure blood.
You also have Assyrians, Chaldeans, Syriacs, Mandeans, Maronites etc still around in the mid east who are also NOT ARAB, but descend from the older races of the area before Islam and the Arabs arrived in the 7th Century AD...All of these peoples are non muslim, and some, like the Assyrians and Mandeans still speak Aramaic.
thank you for this post. In the past three decades, a wing of pan-Africanthought has promoed an unfortunate, if understandable, distorition of ancient history. This ranges from the false idea that Egyptians were Black to that of the Greeks' borrowing all their philosophy, art, mathematics and science from Black scholars in Africa.
While it is very important that the world acknowledge and embrace the many great contributions of Africans and Black people to the development of Humanity, it is also important not to distort historical fact with self-serving propaganda. This garbage about a Black woman being more nistorically accurate in the role of Cleopatra is such an example. In fact, if a Black actress were cast in the role, there should not be any objection – as long as she performs well. But the ancient Macedonians – who descended from tribal peoples who migrated south out of north-eastern Europe, and were originally very fair-skinned – are indeed the ancestors of Cleopatra and it is rank deception to claim she was Black. The Macedonians, even 300 years or more after Alexander the Great, kept to themselves in a separate enclave in Alexandria and did as little mixing as necessary with Egyptians – and virtually no royal marraiges were made with Egyptians.
Awwww...you're so smart and cute....
NOT!
I BET YOU THINK GOD SHAPED MAN OUT OF WHITE SAND TOO, HUH? LOL LOL LOL LOL
What i dont understand is why 20 people need to repeat the same information about Cleo's claimed heritage...also, why is there an assumtption that for a person to be "black" they have to have a big nose and black skin (as someone mentioned above)? Iman is "Black" and if you made her skin light everyone would call her arab...Rashida Jones (from i love you man) is half black but i bet most people didnt know that and 100yrs from now if someone was doing a study based on pics of her what would they say her ethnicity is?
Its all ignorant...
I love being west-indian american black in this country because im so freed from the inherent under current of racism – because im not bitter nor am i invested in making excuses for people. I dont care if Angelina plays Cleo or not, i dont care if Claudia Schieffer takes pics in black face. I also dont care if most of the so-called nonracists whites didnt take their little girls to see Princess and the Frog or think we "black women need to calm down" because they think we are all the same and all think the same...and 100yrs from now when people make a movie about Barack and let a really tanned white guy play the part because they rationalize that a Denzel type guy woudl be too "black" i wotn care about that either.
"African Americans" get your own studios, production companies, & money so you can tell your own stories the way you want to tell them and you wont be subjected to historical, political, sociological, finacial, and statistical analysis of "others"
Thanks for the correct history – you even gave some "hooks" to follow up on. What people in the region look like now is far different than what they looked like then. There have been large population invasions that changed things forever. Look at the Celts – we think of them as being from NW France, Britain and yet they all started out in Central Asia thousands of years ago. Modern Breton (language of Brittany in France) sounds alot like the Turkish spoken around Ankara. Didn't Roman General Gaius Marius resettle Celtic cavalry there to replace thanes murdered by the Pontic King by trickery? Makes you wonder...
Thank you Yahoo Anwers! You are 100% correct. None of the ancient Egyptians were black. If you look to history, Ramses the Great has flaming red hair and bright blue eyes! Egyptians are not black, but they are olive toned. True Egyptian, the Copts, who are the true descendants of the Pharaohs.
Cleopatra was Greek, and not even Egyptian.
I am tired of every race trying to take cedit for the greatness of Ancient Egypt.
For all you other people... Read your history!
Yeah, i get my history from Yahoo Answers...
No, no, no, no, you are all wrong and YOU ALL have it wrong. The Egyptian Pharos descended from tall, silly looking, pot bellied, ugly as sin ALIENS! Everybody needs to watch the History Channel's special series on the "Ancient Astronaut Theory." Finally, the truth has been revealed. The History Channel's word is golden. They are never wrong. They back all their show's information and theories with hard, credible facts. I sure hope that when our alien brothers return to take us home I get a window seat! Now that is why they should make Cleo look like the chick from "V" without her human head on. Peace be with you, my lizard extraterrestrial brothers.
Simply copying and pasting a link that someone else has already answered does not make one smart. If anyone were to do some real study and research (for instance, if you were in school) they would know that the Egyptians were very 'African' in their features. Today, Egyptians may only appear to be 'Arabic' but they are still shades of brown. To say Cleopatra wasn't black is crazy. Yes, she was Egyptian. However, Egypt is in Africa and Africans are black (in some shade). Some have made reference to her profile on coins and paintings, but that not a strong basis. The coins on which her profile was discovered were GREEK coins! Why in the world would they depict an 'African' on their coins? They wouldn't. Not to go on too much of a tangent, but it's the same argument that people make about the physical appearance of Jesus. He obviously did not have blue eyes and blonde hair, b/c he was Palestinian. However, most artists that depicted Jesus were of European descent, so that's the image they chose to create. Same deal w/Cleopatra.
But, this is America and Hollywood is about presenting a story w/an anticipated result of making money. To cast an Egyptian actress to play Cleopatra doesn't seem to be what studios or the public want. I doubt Essence made a fuss about Disney casting Jake Gyllenhall to play a British accent-using, horrible acting, Prince of Persia....
If you want to be completely correct, you should mention that part of Egypt was indeed very dark Africans who lived mostly in Southern Egypt, and apparent ruled the whole thing briefly. Egyptians were lighter skin, but they were certainly African, though their ruling class, like that of other groups were often lighter skinned for reasons that are not completely clear.
The traditional reason for the lighter skin of the ruling classes was the theory that a group of tribes who invented chariot warfare conquered most of the ancient world, though not as a single empire. They were lighter skinned, and thus their genes caused the upper classes to have lighter skin. There are many other possible explanations of course.
I suppose Essence Magazine or BET won't be happy until OPRAH is cast in the role!
They auditioned Oprah but passed because she always has her mouth gaping open like an idiot.
ROTFLMAO!!! That was FUNNY!!
Well yeah, that, plus the fact that she wouldn't stop bellowing, "Maaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrkkkkkk Annnnnnnnnthonyyyyyyy!" every time she had to say his name. ;>
...or Michelle Obama..?
Nia Vardalos of "My Big Fat Greek Wedding" would be better than Angelia any day, first of all she IS Greek and she has the LOOK of the Greek people. If they want authenticsm...then have a Greek portray a Greek. Nia is beautiful in a "not your classic beauty" kind of beautiful way...the same way Cleopatra was.
i was trying to think of a greek actress to play the part and she was the only one i could think of too.
unfortunately i doubt she is up to the hollywood beauty standard for a big box office movie like this.
"A woman of color". I have heard this phrase alomg with "person of color" or "man of color"for the past several years. It has got to be one of the strangest terms unless the rest of the human race has no color. Just say black! You may also want to learn your history before crying about Angelina playing the part because sadly it makes you appear even more ignorant.
I agree with you. This "person of color" thing has essentially evolved to mean "anyone who is NOT white". It's just another club used to beat us about the head and discriminate against non-people of color.
The main point of the discussion should be whether or not you believe Angelina Jolie is the right choice to play Cleopatra. But yet again the media is using something as inconsequential as another movie about Cleopatra as a commentary on race relations.
@ Bryce! I have to agree with you there! I'm a black woman and SOOOOO TIRED of hearing the phase 'of color'!! WTH does that mean anyway!! Before getting on white ppl about being racist, we should "first" learn to quit being racist within our OWN race! The changing starts at self first.....then can be injected to the masses! I digress!!!
Halle Berry should play Cleopatra.....that's it.
good lord, really?? Cat Woman sucked when she starred in it
Halle Berry? yikes. Here's an idea – let's get a Greek actress to play Cleopatra!
Well you must believe she is the "greatest" actress around and you may not be the only one, but she has not been so terrific in almost ALL her films. Her acting skills were best in Bond when she walked out of the ocean NOT SPEAKING, all she is usually hired for is guy eye candy
CORRECT!!!!!!!!!!
Really? "Of color"? What color is that? Besides, Cleopatra was Egyptian, why would a black woman make a better character?
AND so what if a black woman did play CLEOPATRA???...b/c Angelina doesn't look GREEK OR EGYPTIAN. lol. Might as well have a Latin woman play the role or, better yet, a Chinese woman. 🙂
Cleopatra was of the Ptolemy line, which was of Greek ancestry. The oldest pharoahs up until Alexander the Great conquered Egypt were of color. However, AtG introduced the Greek gene pool into that society. The pharoahs ended up being of a Greek/African mix in some cases.
That's not true, go back to school. Black Africans only ruled Egypt for a short time, late in Egypt's history. Egyptians were Caucasian.
Yes!!! She is perfect... No matter race.... Good Luck
Cleopatra was of Macedonian descent. If anything Angelina Joie is not white enough for the role 🙂
Who cares!
Amen to that!
I second that. Why are all you getting worked up about a movie? If you don't agree, don't watch it.
Actually Cleopatra wasn't a beauty, historical accounts say that she was a little funny looking and it was her wit, intellect and overall charm that drew in Marc Anthony and Ceasar
....Robert Downey Jr. played the role of a black man in Tropic Thunder......Angelina Jolie can damn well play the role as Cleopatra........it's called acting last time i checked.....
Then i think we should have Angela Bassett play Elizabeth II. It's just acting.
Actually tan or olive skinned, Zee.
As mentioned by some other posters, she was of ancient Greek Macedonian decent (an ancestor of Ptolemy, general to Alexander the Great), which means she most likely would have had an olive complexion.
That doesn't mean a woman of African heritage couldn't play her. But Angelina Jolie would have a more historically accurate skin tone.
Not all Greeks are of olive complexion many are fair and even your suppose 'darkest' Greek is still very light compared to most Egyptians even in ancient times. Also as I stated before Cleopatra came from a Dynasty who were from the Greek Macedonian tribes which belonged to the Dorians a tribe that is known for their light coloring. Ancient and modern Greks are white, they aren't any different in color then other people of the Balkans and no one would mistake people from the Balkans as not white or 'mixed'. An actress who couldn't pass for white would be a terrible miscast for this role. Jolie could easily pass for a Greek which is why having her play this role as far as 'race' is concerned is historically accurate as all ancient depictions of Cleopatra clearly show her as a white woman.
Angie: You are a joke. "Black women need to calm down"?? Apparently your reading comprehension is not up to par, as the article stated that Essence magazine stated that a black woman should play the role. The magazine is not a person nor does it speak for all Black Women, hell probably not even most of them. Most of us could give a damn less who plays the role, since if we are not interested in the movie we just won't bother to see it!!! You should get out more and get a clue!!!!! LMAO
You said "Most of us could give a damn less who plays the role", Hmm that means you really do care who plays the role if you COULD give a damn less. Didn't you mean "Most of us COULDN'T give a damn less who plays the role"?
Cleopatra having been descended from one of Alexander the Great's generals Ptolomey of course was Greek which means WHITE. The issue is not one of racism it is about money. Which studio or collection of studios could afford to remake one of the most expensive and least successful movies at least from a box office perspective and why not leave a movie to stand on its on own without a second class remake?
Actually, not white . . .more of the olive skin tone. Many actors have portrayed Greeks and white-but history knows that they would have been more olive toned.
...and I'm sure no one said that ALL Egyptians are dark skinned...in those times, MOST of them were because of climate and the location...people travel and migrate so often now...just like, OH YEAH, how the British took over America and kicked the Natives to the side...then brought Africans over (against their will) and WOW!!! THEN THERE WERE blacks, whites, AND Natives...and others too...COME ON. people. BE SMART. Know your WORLD HISTORY better...this is why Americans are known to be some of the most narrow-minded people on the planet (when it comes to situations such as this...not very intelligent) *sigh*
Are you kidding me? some kind or id10t is what you sound like. Still hung up on slavery!
can you go rant with that crap someplace else because we're all SO VERY SICK of hearing it.
Ummmm hey Nichole, YOU need to get a history book. The black slaves that you state so were wonderfully brought to America by the white man were SOLD to them by their BLACK TRIBAL LEADERS!!!!!! So if you want to issue your incorrect history lesson, do it somewhere else. Black African Tribal Leader are to blame as much as the white men who participated in such a horrible act. BTW, the race card is getting old, slavery has been abolished for over 125 years. Not sure your parents, granparents or even great great grandparents can take issue of being a slave!!!!
I'm sure that I'm not alone when I say that an entire line of my family died out because all the sons died fighting in the Civil War so that slaves could be set free. My abolitionist great-great-grandmother, upset as she was that her sons had been killed, said that if they had to be sacrificed she couldn't think of a better cause than freedom for slaves. Now, if my family doesn't hold that loss against blacks whose ancestors were slaves, I don't understand why any black person should assume that my ancestors were to blame for slavery because they were white. And yet some do.
Should Angelina Jolie play Cleopatra? Well, Cleopatra was Greek and the Greeks at that time were fairer than is common now. So, I can accept her coloring. Angelina may well be more beautiful than Cleopatra actually was, but if Charlize Theron can play Aileen Wuornos, I can accept her looks. Cleopatra was known for her charm, intelligence, wit, and sweet voice. Angelina doesn't seem to be lacking in any of those characteristics. Have I missed anything?
Slave-owner guilt is what's wrong with the two idiots who responded to you earlier...don't worry...YOU ARE SMARTER THAN THEY ARE! :^)
Actually Nichole, why would your ancestors blame the slaves for a system they didn't create? I love how some like to dismiss the issue of slavery because it happened so long ago, but conviently forget about the everything that happened following that period, like the Jim Crow years.
Cleopatra wasn't black.......LOL! How stupid can ANYONE BE??? I am laughing over this!
Keep laughing, but how many white people do you see in Egypt (other than the tourists)? You're talking about Northern Africa. They were of darker skin. She might not have been Naomi Campbell dark, but she was 'of color'.
AS DUMB AS YOU IF YOU THINK SHE WAS WHITE! HAHAHAHAHAHA
She was likely TAN! LOL LOL LOL
DUMMY!
Cleopatra was not a colored woman, she was white. She came from a Dynasty who inbred to preserve their royal bloodline and hold onto power. They didn't intermix outside their own kind. The intense inbreeding this family was known to take part in help preserve certain physichal traits such as their fair coloring, auburn hair and fatness. The Ptolemies didn't even view themselves as Egyptians, up until their power came to an end they always viewed themselves as MACEDONIANS. They also had in place a systme that was similar to aparthied, they didn't intermix with the native Egyptians:
"The initial result was a new vision of social relations in Ptolemaic Egypt in which virtually separate Greek and Egyptian societies and cultures tensely coexisted in Egypt with little or no interaction. Ethnicity was destiny, and the ethnicities that determined privilege were Macedonian Greek" ~ The Reign of Cleopatra; S. M. Burstein
In other words only a true Greco-Macedonian can succeed to the thrown under Ptolemaic rule, not mixed origins children and most definitely not the kids of African Queens or concubines. The Ptolemies took a whole series of measures to establish cults concerned only with their Greek population.
read your history dumb a@#!
Check your history folks. Cleopatra was a descendant of Ptolemy, one of Alexander the Great's Generals left in charge of Egypt. (incidentally, Jolie played Alexander's mother in Oliver Stone's "Alexander"). Thus, Cleopatra was Greek. Jolie is certainly more appropriate for the role, look, and talented than say Hallie Barry. I think it's great casting.
BBC NEWS ARTICLE- 2009 – skeleton of Cleopatra's sister
In BBC news article, Austrian scientists say skeleton of Cleopatra's sister was African.
QUOTE:
"Elizabeth Taylor's European Cleopatra persists in the public imagination Cleopatra, the last Egyptian Pharaoh, renowned for her beauty, was part African, says a BBC team which believes it has found her sister's tomb.
Queen Cleopatra was a descendant of Ptolemy, the Macedonian general who ruled Egypt after Alexander the Great. But remains of the queen's sister Princess Arsinoe, found in Ephesus, Turkey, indicate that her mother had an "African" skeleton.
Experts have described the results as "a real sensation."
The discovery was made by Hilke Thuer of the Austrian Academy of Sciences.
"It is unique in the life of an archaeologist to find the tomb and the skeleton of a member of Ptolemaic dynasty," she said.. "That Arsinoe had an African mother is a real sensation which leads to a new insight on Cleopatra's family and the relationship of the sisters Cleopatra and Arsinoe."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/also_in_the_news/7945333.stm
I was thinking the same thing! I think Jolie would be great, she's a beautiful woman and a great actress......if not her, then Halle Berry!!!!
Would like to point out to Darlene that she should have quoted the full article. Arsinoe might have had an African mother, but she and Cleopatra did not share a mother – they shared a father and were half-sisters. So this article has no point to the argument.
Darlene, that bogus Fictional BBC News article is based upon the wishful thinking of some modern pseudo 'scholars' and NOT historical facts. Neither Cleopatra NOR her sister had an 'African' mother. For one, the suppose skeleton remains in that tomb are NOT of Arsinoe given the person in that tomb is too young to be Arsinoe. Arsinoe was in her twenties when she was killed, the person in that tomb is a young girl in her teens. Even Thuer who worked on the project was bothered by this. Secondly the way these 'researchers' came to their conclusion of the person's 'race' is based upon the outdated cranial index, i.e. skull size, that is not used anymore by any credible forensic scientist to determine a person's race because of its unreliability. The Ptolemies did not intermix outside their own Greek-Macedonian royal lineages. There is absolutely no credible evidence to support any mixed ethnicity of Cleopatra or her sister. This bogus mixed ethnicity claim is a modern invention. Ancient sources and evidence do not support any such claim. Cleopatra's grandmothers and her mother are both known. They both belonged to the Ptolemaic bloodline. They were not black African nor Egyptian given the xenophobic tendencies of the Ptolemies who inbred to preserve their royal Greek-Macedonian bloodline, they surrounded themselves with Greek royals, upper class and ruling elite. The Ptolemies sometimes inter-married with other Greek-Macedonian Dynasties but tended to prefer to inbred among each other. It is sometimes unclear which child was born from which wife, but the wives were all of the Greek-Macedonian lineage. Their numbers after their names might not be certain but their genealogy is not in question, what we are certain of is the fact that they were all Ptolemaic princesses or queens. For the record, their numbers is a modern creation, the Ptolemies did not have numbers following their names, and this is what has caused a lot of the confusion of which wive is which, at times different modern scholars would assign different numbers to the same king or queen.
Good God...When is all this racial crap going to end! Cleopatra was of Greek Decent. Angelia Jolie would make a great Cleo. Not because of her color, but her talent. She's the one who will bring in the people. Hell, if there was a tranny out there that could act better than her then I say bring him in to do the part!!! Who cares, you put the best person for the role in it.
Cleopatra would have been a brown woman in reality.
Where the hell can you find brown or black greek?
no she would have not been Cleopatra IV to exact was a WHITE WOMAN ! AND A UGLY ON AT THAT lol she was Greek yall so if they really wanted to make a real movie about her the they would get a ugly white girl to play her lol
"if they really wanted to make a real movie about her the they would get a ugly white girl to play her"
I'm pretty sure that's exactly what they did.
Cleopatra wasn't Black. Just look at the hieroglyphs. I have met several Egyptians and none of them were Black. Just because Egypt is in Africa doesn't mean that only Blacks lived there.
research before you comment.
THANK YOU TO ONE OF THE FEW SMART PEOPLE ON THIS COMMENT BOARD!
If we want to stay accurate pertaining to what a person's etnicity was, then we should stop portraying Jesus as white with blond hair and blue eyes.
Cleopatra was not African. She was Macedonian Greek. There is zero historical reason why an actress playing Cleopatra should be a woman of color.
CandyLand, the only RACIST I see is you. What rase has to do with anything here. I don't like Angelina Jolie period. But I can see why she will make a good fit for the character, her personality. And I am sure the film will make money because of her. Isn't this the real reason, the money!
Africa is a big continent. North-Saharan African peoples are not black.
I'm amazed by the brazen display of ignorance people of every race or ethnicity are displaying in this debate. Whites, Blacks, Arabs, etc. want to claim Cleo for themselves when current archaeology shows she was of mixed African and Greek ancestry. See Archaeologist Neil Oliver's BBC special on the subject: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/also_in_the_news/7945333.stm
let go of the old histories that claimed the Ptolomies never mixed with the BLACK natives, when apparently that is not the case! One ancient history claiming the Macedonians never miexed with natives under Alex the Great has little to no bearing on how the Ptolomies actually behaved once they took over Egypt or during the Roman occupation. Even if histories say they didn't mix with the natives, science is showing that the historians were LIARS!!!!!
I absolutely agree. I just want to elaborate. If only people would read their history! The descendents of Alexander the Great's general Ptolemy had to rule Egypt in the Egyptian manner, and that meant that brothers and sisters married and co-ruled. That kept the kingship in the family and kept the blood purely Macedonian Greek. Cleopatra VII, the last Cleopatra, was, according to sources, the only one who learned to speak Egyptian.
First of all, Cleopatra was neither African nor of Egyptian descent. She was of Greek heritage. The bigger problem with Angelina Jolie portraying Cleopatra or any of the other actresses in the past who have, is that they are too beautiful. It is known that Cleopatra was rather unattractive, just very powerful.
Maybe they should get Lady GaGa to play Cleopatra! Not ugly but not pretty and love costumes.
Oh geez, c'mon...so they should get unattractive, powerful women to play her in a movie? Maybe Hillary Clinton?
Should they also make sure everyone is short and likely to die before their 45th birthday for historical accuracy?
To beautiful? Angelina Jolie? Not hardly
I don't think she is ever described as unattractive. The women of Egypt (Ptolomaic or not) were known for their exotic beauty secrets. She may have been a bit plain, but is always described as alluring. That aside, she was a miserable wretch of a human being, who so sought power that she murdered her own brother to get the throne and then ordered the murder of her sister Arsinoe (who was supposed to be in a place of sanctuary in a temple at Ephesus) in order to keep her from raising an army. I have never understood what people find so romantic about the life-story of this woman.
Exactly! That was the first thing I thought of when I read the headline here lol.
I beleive she will be perfect, I will be in line to my ticket when it comes out...
For the record Cleopatra was not egyptian she was Greek. Check it out!!!!!
Yea and even if she were Egyptian, there are very few Egyptians who look Black, most look Middle Eastern.
Wow. You are an angry person, Angie. lol. How about saying the people who are disagreeing with the matter, need to calm down???...(not "Black women"...some "black women" don't even CARE...like me). Angelina Jolie can do whatever the heck she wants to do, and the producers can too...FREE COUNTRY. (lol)
This is a direct quote from PLATO himself. "Egyptians are very black" So as you can see, this is a perfect example of Hollywood white washing and rewriting history once again. The writings are on the wall about the history of the EGYPTIANS just look at the writing on the wall..... literally!!!! The drawings and carvings are of black people ..... no white. Log on @ http://www.SONYLEGEND.com for more details.
....oh, and it might help if people looked at the portraits of her that exist. Not very 'African' looking more Roman patrician looking.....
SONYLEGEND: she wasn't Egyption
I have seen light and dark-skinned Egyptians.
If you look at any of the coins depicting Cleo, all of which were struck in her lifetime, she looks more Greek than African.
http://www.hunterian.gla.ac.uk:443/museum/exhibImages/CoinScaled.jpg
YAYA,
Most Egyptians now, look Arabic and that is because of their close proximity to the Middle East. However, I would dare to say that I believe ancient Egypt was very cosmopolitan.. Almost like England now. Actually the face of England or should I say London is looking more Arab these days. So Perhaps England is also in the Middle East...J/K.
Anyway, I am sure Most Great Empires had much diversity in culture and race due to Migration, Conquest, etc... etc... Much like the United States today. Can we really classify what is a real American. I suppose the majority of you would say, Blonde Hair, Blue Eyes, that sort of thing.. But the Native American would perhaps think differently.
I am fully Annoyed with all of this. The Arab thinks he's better than the African, The Jew thinks he's better than the Arab, The Whites think there better than everyone and the Asians just keep quite about the whole thing...J/k Again!!!! lmao
This really is so so sad.... Maybe Reagan was right, we do need an Alien Invasion from some really F'ing Mean Ass F'ers that will make us all come together and not look at culture or color but humanity.
I love the differences in everyone. I love Asian food and culture, I love Hispanic food and Culture, I love Indian, Middle Eastern, Russian, European culture and foods. Hell, I live in New York. I also dislike somethings from each culture but how BORING the world would be, without them.
I feel we need to make films that are historical in nature based on the actual heritage of the people being represented. It is a fair equation for those who have a cultural background which is being promoted.
Cleopatraa was of greek (macedonian) descent, even her name was greek. She is part of the Ptolemaic Dinasty established in 305 B.c. by Ptolomy, one Alexander's bodyguard.
1. No african country would make a white Greek woman thier queen at that time
2. Lineage must be preserved, why is this not true for an African country?
3. Doesnt it strike you that we know who her Father was but her mother has strangely been removed from the History books?
4. White Europeans removed the contribution of black people over hundreds of years because they needed to justify slavery to thier own already appalled people. Do you think it would do to have slaves who had such an illustrious past as to have taught Pythagoras during his apprenticeship? To have given Pillar building technology to the Greeks who went on to use it to build thier Parthenon and other monuments? Would it do to realise Ghana Empire and Benin bronzes and the first carbonised steel came from Africa? No of course not, so they destroyed it. and even today people dont realise BLACK nubians gifted the Egyptians Pyramid building technology. No European had African braids and many statues of Egypt were reworked to look white.
5.These are Facts, even Diop carried out a melanin dosage test and found the mummies to be VERY black people. Also Herodotus described the Egyptians as Black people with tight curly hair mostly. Arab influx into Egypt took place AD not BC. The world has lied to you but Africans know otherwise and perpetuating this "white" myth brings millions to Egypt despite Nubian art being almost the same as Egyptian representations and bringing in NOTHING.
6. Hilke Thür recently made investigation into Arsinoe, her sister and what do we find as a result of MODERN SCIENCE? CLEOPATRA'S MOTHER WAS BLACK.
WAKE UP SILLY PEOPLE. LIKE EVEN THE 25TH DYNASTY OF BLACK PHARAOHS, AND MANY BEFORE. ancient Egyptians ARE NOT ARABS THEY ARE NUBIANS. & THEY ARE BLACK NOT ARAB NOT LIGHT SKINNED BERBERS BUT BLACK LIKE THE SUDANESE /ETHIOPIANS. THIS IS WHY EDUCATED BLACKS AND SCHOLARS ARE MAD.
There is no Middle Eastern look. There are black Middle Easterners and a lot of Middle Easterners especially Egyptians have black admixture. I don't think a white or black woman should play Cleopatra because Cleopatra was not white. She was not European w/ blue eyes & light skin like Angelina Jolie and Elizabeth Taylor, so to have Angelina playing Cleopatra would not be an accurate portrayal of Cleopatra. Cleopatra was mixed race as were many other Egyptians she definitely had black in her, so why not have a mulatto play Cleopatra instead of having this overrated Britsh/French/Native American actress playing Cleopatra? Zoe Saldana,Beyonce, Thandie Newton, and Rosario Dawson especially would make a great Cleopatras cuz of their features. It definitely would be more accurate. Btw they have re-created Cleopatra's face and she is medium to dark skinned and with a hooked nose. A hooked nose is a caucasian feature while the skin color is African so she was obviously mixed. Also Angelina as an actress, I don't like, and also she won't be a good Cleopatra nothing about her says Cleopatra, Cleopatra was not a freak like Angie. Angie should stick to action movies. If you really want a white woman even Catherine Zeta Jones would be a better choice.
Now, I haven't even bothered to read all of the comments, but from the few I did read, it is clearly seen that most of our population is quick to take offence against each other without doing the math first. Please people, start researching things first. Just because the population of Egypt is dark skinned today, doesn't mean that she was. Alexander the Great conquered Egypt in 332 BC and after his death, he left the office of pharoah to his descendants, the Ptolomies. Cleopatra was the last queen of this house, making her a Macedonian Greek. Sorry, but there is no doubt that she was a white woman. We should try to remember that the whole continent of Africa is not dark skinned, just as we all share the rest of the world. We need to remember to THINK before we speak and make sure what we are speaking can be backed up. Therefore we do not make fools of ourselves.
What is wrong with these people? Cleopatra was not black, not even dark at all she was of Greek origins with silky wavy beautiful long hair. Her hair was dark brown. Her skin color was slightly olive with some orange red in it. Please I'm sure she would be pleased to see Ms. Jolie play her.
Not only was Cleopatra Greek, there was an incredible amount of inbreeding in the Ptolemaic Dynasty. There is very little likelihood that she had any Egyptian in her. The Ptolemies refused to even learn the Egyptian language until Cleopatra VII.