|
June 17th, 2010
11:25 AM ET
Backlash over Angelina Jolie as CleopatraThe author of the biography “Cleopatra: A Life” may be hailing Angelina Jolie as the perfect choice to play the queen, but some folks aren’t so sure. On African American blogs and message boards, people are speaking out against the casting of Jolie in a role they believe should go to an actress of color. Essence.com recently featured a commentary titled, “Another White Actress to Play Cleopatra?” where the writer opined, “Honestly, I don't care how full Angelina Jolie's lips are, how many African children she adopts, or how bronzed her skin will become for the film, I firmly believe this role should have gone to a Black woman.”
Clutchmagonline.com points out that the Egyptian royal has already been portrayed by three actresses who were not of color: actress Claudette Colbert in 1934, actress Vivien Leigh in 1945 and the most famous Cleopatra to date, Elizabeth Taylor in 1963. Stacy Schiff, author of the forthcoming “Cleopatra: A Life,” reportedly endorsed Jolie to play the role according to USA Today. “I think [Jolie] be perfect for it and I can see a possible Oscar in her future,” the writer said. “Physically, she’s got the perfect look.” Talk is swirling that Jolie’s real life love, Brad Pitt, could play Mark Anthony a la legendary lovers Liz Taylor and Richard Burton in the 1963 version of the film. Do you think Jolie is the ideal Queen of the Nile? |
The Ptolemaic dynasty were of Macedonian Greek descent meaning light skinned and quite often blond. Ptolemaic Egypt had a rather strict color bar too – a visibly mixed blood princess would not have been an acceptable heir. Cleopatra's maternal ancestry is unknown but it is most UNLIKELY to have been either native Egyptian or Sub-Saharan African given the racial ideas of her culture.
Another white woman portraying ancient peoples. Angelina does not even look Greek. Moreover, many scholars attest that Cleopatra was short, a little stocky, and not real pretty, at least not the way we saw Elizabeth Taylor play her. I would have liked to see a woman of color play this role, especially a woman who looks average and has dark skin. It just would be more historically correct.
I agree withLeila..another white womanportraying a women of color! It's so stupid to just make up history! Hollywood has made all of the Epic movies with Jews or white folks! If they would put anybody in ofcoor the it would be Halle Berry, and shecan't even act! The highest quality actresses of color are not utilized well for their extroidinary talents. So tiring watching another white anybody playing colored people. Move into the 21st century please!!!
I would love to see Beyoncé Knowles play the part of Queen Cleopatra the 7th, we have had lots of white Cleopatra's, how about giving it to a coloured woman for a change, besides we can guess all we want as to what colour Cleopatra actually was, but at the end off the day no one knows for sure, and does it really matter what colour she ( Cleopatra ) was, and just for the record I am a white male.
If You Were Educated Leila, You Would Know That Cleopatra Wasn't Even Black, African Or Even Egyptian. Her Lineage Went Back To Ancient Greece.
Cleopatra wasn't an Egyptian by blood. She was a descended from the military/ruling class from Europe. Alexandria developed its own culture influenced by aspects of native Egyptian culture, and I believe Cleopatra had a child with a native Egyptian, but she was not "black" by any modern interpretation.
and interpretation is all "race" is.
Her mother was never mentioned because she died when she was very young, and she was born out of wedlock to one of the servants of Ptolemy's household. Her mother was the Head servant to the house and it is said that Ptolemy loved Cleopatra's mom thus Cleopatra became daddy's favorite little girl who then became Queen.
FACT: THE MOVIE WORLD HAS DONE LOTS OF DAMAGE TO PEOPLE OF COLOR...
THE AMERICAN INDIAN THEY USED WHITE ACTORS INSTEAD OF NATIVE INDIAN – PAUSE
EVEN SANTA THEY MADE WHITE...EVEN JESUS CHRIST AND MOSES THEY
MADE WHITE IN THEIR MOVIES- ALL MEN OF COLOR – PAUSE
CLEOPATRA WAS A WOMEN OF COLOR AND THEY USED WHITE ACTRESSES TO
PORTRAY THIS WOMEN...
ALL SUPER HERO, AND
MOVIES ABOUT SMART KIDS OR MEN WITH
SPECIAL POWERS OF WISDOM, THEY USED WHITE PERSONS – PAUSE
WHAT MESSAGE IS THIS IMPLANTING IN THE MINDS OF PEOPLE – PAUSE
PEOPLE TODAY ARE STANDING UP FOR WHAT IS RIGHT – PAUSE
LOOK AT THE GOVERNMENTS AROUND THE WORLD, PEOPLE ARE STANDING UP
FOR FAIRNESS AND TRUTH..
MOSES MARRIED A WOMEN OF COLOR (IN THE MOVIES WIFE HIS WIFE WAS WHITE)
AND KING SOLOMON WAS IN LOVE WITH A WOMEN OF COLOR.
It was recently discovered that Cleopartra's sister was half African. Therefore, Cleopatra may have been African as wll as Greek. Therefore, It their is going to be a Biographgy of Cleoparta or movie. The Actress should atleast resemble what Cleopartra and her family were in real life. Meditteranean and African.
Forget the white vs black issue for a second we still have other problems with Angelina playing Cleopatra. If Cleopatra was really Greek, why is Angelina a French/British/Native American woman playing her? It doesn't make sense especially because Angelina doesn't look Greek or Meditteranean from any angle. Also Cleopatra in real life was ugly,let's face it, maybe she was attractive by the standards back then but by today's standards she would be considered ugly. She had a hooked nose that I know for sure. Neither Elizabeth Taylor nor Angelina have a hooked nose. Why make an actress play someone who they don't resemble even a little bit especially when you have so many other faces in the world who look like Cleopatra. People are acting as if all women in the world died and Angelina is the only woman left or something. Plus people are tired of Angelina she is overrated,over exposed and just plain annoying.People are tired of constantly hearing about her. She is better in action movies and should stick to what she's good at instead of playing roles that don't suit her she knows damn well she doesn't deserve this role nor will she do justice to this role.
Angie will be fine for this movie. She should stay on the film for one I will see the movie. For I love movies about the Roman Empire. Because of mixed Roman hertiage. She should of had more children than adopting though. Also adopting American children who have no families. I wish she would support her own nation first. Angie you're cute is all.
Maybe they should just get rid of every other actress out there, and just her her for every movie being made from now on.
Personally, I am pulling for MIllia J. for the part because of her intense eyes.
If people want to tell a their story with all the characters they want they must, "must" produced their own stories. No one will do it for you the way you want. You "must" do it yourself. Now let's keep it moving and get to writing your script. Don't be reactive be proactive!
If there is any truth to the claims that Cleopatra was both Greek and Egyptian then perhaps it would be best to have Halle Berry play the role as it truly should not be played by a white actress.
Cleopatra was from the Ptolemaic dynasty, which was Greek and installed by Alexander the Great.
how did essence get its information on cleopatra being black? looks like any stupid person can work there.
The main lesson here seems to be our education system is a piece of crap. If you're going to spout off about ancient Egypt go to a museum or read a history book first. Cleo was of Greek ancestry and the Egyptians of her day were not dark skinned if their numerous self-depictions are anything to go by. Stop applying modern sentiments to ancient history.
Cleo was of Greek ancestry.
Bottom line-nobody really knows what color Cleopatra was, but the real reason that black folks tend to be up in arms about casting choices like this is because Hollywood always has to whitewash everything-that is, white people throughout Hollywood history have always been casting in the leading roles whether the person they were playing was actually white or not. As a poster said in an earlier post, why is everyone who posted here gotten so upset at the thought that Cleopatra could have been black-the reality is is that the modern racial catagories we're boxed ourselves into over the last 400 hundred years today didn't even exist in Cleopatra's time-so yeah she may have been considered black back then, but not by today's racial standards. BTW, I saw a pictures at an Egyptian museum showing the daily lives of some Egyptians, and they were depicted as BROWN-SKINNED people, straight-up. And, FYI, there ARE mixed black people who look just as white as any white person around–who's to say Cleopatra wasn't? And why the hell is it so difficult for white people to believe that people in ancient Egyptian civilizations probably didn't look like them-why do you always have to literally "whitewash" history, as if nobody BUT white people could have made history in the first place? What proof do you have that they weren't? I mean,damn, there are people to this day who have a hard time admitting that Obama is black, as if his having a white mother somehow cancels out his blackness, which is some stupid BS. As far as I'm concerned, white folks have erased so much of black folks' hostory in this country until it isn't funny. Look at the AIRBENDER movie, which, even though it's set in a world of Asian people, STILL gets cast with only white folks in the lead. Look at the gambling film 21, which was actually supposed to be about the 3 young Asian-American college students and a white students who learned how to beat the casino system, but they threw a white guy in the lead, therefore "whitewashing" his story and altering it. After uncovering so much black history that wasn't taught to me in school over the years, I'm pretty skeptical of white folks claiming, "SO-and-so wasn't really black, they were really this-and-that"-get the hell off that–Cleopatra IS black–y'all just don't want to admit it! And hell,yeah, Thandie Newton should be playing, not Jolie-she gets enough damn roles as it is!
Bottom line-nobody really knows what color Cleopatra was, but the real reason that black folks tend to be up in arms about casting choices like this is because Hollywood always has to whitewash everything-that is, white people throughout Hollywood history have always been casting in the leading roles whether the person they were playing was actually white or not. As a poster said in an earlier post, why is everyone who posted here gotten so upset at the thought that Cleopatra could have been black-the reality is is that the modern racial catagories we're boxed ourselves into over the last 400 hundred years today didn't even exist in Cleopatra's time-so yeah she may have been considered black back then, but not by today's racial standards. BTW, I saw a pictures at an Egyptian museum showing the daily lives of some Egyptians, and they were depicted as BROWN-SKINNED people, straight-up. And, FYI, there ARE mixed black people who look just as white as any white person around–who's to say Cleopatra wasn't? And why the hell is it so difficult for white people to believe that people in ancient Egyptian civilizations probably didn't look like them-why do you always have to literally "whitewash" history, as if nobldy BUT
Bottom line-nobody really knows what color Cleopatra was, but the real reason that black folks tend to be up in arms about casting choices like this is because Hollywood always has to whitewash everything-that is, white people throughout Hoyywood history have
What's really curious is why some are up-in-arms about the possibility that Cleopatra was mixed-race, that is she MAY have had sub-saharan or black AND Greek ancestry. It is very possible. Why not mix it up and let not only white, but mixed, black, mediterranean, hispanc, Indian women have a go at the role. All likelyhoods of appearances. I saw once on Xena or some TV show Cleopatra was played by a black actress. And many very dark skinned blacks have features like those some point to in ancient pictures skinny nose and lips ,( like Iman). And Eypt was invaded from the Middle East in ancient times so there'd be an admixture. I have a friend from Northern Africa and fortunately her/their concept of "race" is not as screwed up as ours! Why are some so fearful and anxious that Cleopatra may have been "mixed" by Western definition!
I couldn't agree more – why not mix it up and give other women from other backgrounds the opportunity to play a strong woman.
It's entirely likely that Cleopatra was not dark skinned. As she was part of the Ptolemy Dynasty she was most likely of Macedonian descent. Looking at the family tree leads one to believe that, seeing as how it's mostly made up of cousins and siblings marrying, she'd have been nearly pure blooded Macedonian (with some, probably significant, congenital birth defects).
do you want to know the noise of the of Sphinx is cut off……lol here is why
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2r5p8yoe_sk&feature=related
Cleopatra was Greek. A descendant of Ptolemy, a general of Alexander the Great. I think it's really sad for people to make ignorant remarks to the contrary. Please or do some research at the library or on the internet before you blog about something you obviously know nothing about. You just ultimately look foolish. History can not be changed. And I think Angelina Jolie is an excellent choice for the role. Perhaps Charlize Theron should play Cleopatra? She is African.
25th June 2010 will be the first anniversary of the death of Michael Jackson. A true tribute is a solid silver statue of Michael by artist Billa Dhand at website http://www.billadhand.com
Angelina Jolie is a much more REALISTIC choice than a black woman. I wish people would read their history books. Cleopatra was Greek. She came from the Ptolemy dynasty. This woman was about as Angelina Jolie. I'm usually the first one to raise my hand when Hollywood makes a mistake (for example having Angelina Jolie play the Afro-Cuban/Dutch Marianne Pearl) but in this context, they are not incorrect!
Most have pointed out that Cleopatra was from Greece so that means that she was no doubt white and points out that Egypt is apart of African but that doesnt mean that she was black or "colored" b/c there are white ppl in Africa. So were there never any brown/black ppl in Greece ever?
My point no one will ever really know what she really looked like unless they time traveled and does not forget to bring their iphone to take a picture of her to end this debate. 100s of years ago America was highy populated with brown ppl now its mainly white ppl so 2000 years ago who really knows what ALL Greeks looked like. 1000s of years from now ppl might all be "brown"! The world keeps on changing
Ok, if color is no factor in playing a role. So, let A.Jolie play Cleopatra and the Danzel Washington play Mark Anthony
Well in all actuality though she was the ruler of Egypt Cleopatra wasn’t Egyptian. She was a descendant of the Macedonian Greek general Ptolemy. If you actually look at the history Ptolemy went to Egypt and set up a dynasty there and that’s probably how she later came into power. She wasn’t African American at all and that’s probably why they didn’t give the role to an African American actress. I think Angelina Jolie will do fine as Cleopatra seeing as she is an amazing actress.
Just read a posting that made me laugh... Mike named characters who are "historically" white. They are comic book characters... there is a difference.
After reading some of the comments. I must admit I was re-educated on some things. Most would assume because Cleopatra was Queen of Eqypt she would have been African (in particular African in skim tone). But as we all know, Africans come in all shades of color; from dark to brown to yellow or carmel skin. As most of us also know most of the modern day people who reside in Egypt are mostly Muslim and have the same features of people with Middle Eastern descent; who also come in many shades of colors. So what does all this mean, who the hell knows what Cleopatra skin color was. If she was Greek then she would more than likely have had skin color similar to your modern Middle eastern person or lighter in skin color. If she was Greek and African, still the same thing goes her color could have been the exact same as a Greek or real light skinned African. Kids with mixed races come out all kinds of ways.
The question posed was should Angelina play the role of Cleopatra? My response is why not? Angelina has dark features other than her green eyes and could very easily pass as someone with Greek features. She is a very good actress (and those who claim she isnt must not realize how many academy awards she has won and been nominated for. I guess the Academy and the world has it wrong); she is very beautiful and could have a huge following which would also make the movie successful.
If we're talking about the same Cleopatra who descends from the line of those Hellenic (or hellish, depending on one's level of admiration for such a barbaric legacy) Greeks that decided to eke out some meager existence @that end of the known universe following the disintegration of Alexander's acquisitive empire... then she is white and not black.
If we're talking about the same Cleopatra who murdered her sister & eventually her brother for the throne... then she is, for all intents and purposes, white and not black
If we're talking about the same Cleopatra who was actually suppose to MARRY her little brother in the tradition of maintaining the integrity of the Ptolemaic bloodline (not to mention all the congenital birth defects that inevitably result given the generations of interbreeding)...then she is again, white.
If we are talking about the same Cleopatra who decided to OFF herself after having been defeated by Octavian's legionnaires like the coward she was along with her beloved Marc Anthony...she was white; the list goes on.
I think (and I'm addressing my fellow brothas & sistahs chiefly) that whites generally regard themselves as innately far more superior than all other ethnic groups, especially the black man. For me (YES, I AM BLACK) it is sometimes comical but mostly trying when considering how we (black folk) so passionately hold onto the myths of a number of these supposedly black mythic figures of old with a feral aggression. Many of these cats were indeed salacious, backstabbing, acquisitive individuals, who were ultimately proven to be nothing more than suicidal cowards and demagogues. Cleopatra doesn't deserve to be black or lauded by blacks in any respect.
Google people of Egypt. I did, and saw a crowd in a street market, and though I wouldnt say they looked white, they looked just as not black. If I had to pick a country to say who they did looked like I would guess Jordan or , Lebanon. I studied about Cleopatra in school, and we were told she was descented from Greece. I know that Blacks feel they are being robbed because Angelina is playing her, I think the ones complaining should check their facts first. I understand she was the ruler of Egypt which is located in Africa, but just because you live or are from Africa doesnt mean you are black. Last I looked Charlize Theron is pretty white looking. I really understand that everyone wants to be represented correctly, and I believe in this case they are correct in getting Angelina. Though with all the inbreeding that went on, I would have a hard time believing she was really beautiful, at least the way we see beauty today. I think she was probably way ahead of her time, and was just a great biz woman. And for the record, I am black.
It even goes beyond Cleopatra not being 'black.' What we call black or african american is mostly from sub saharan africa. Africa north of the sahara was part of mediterranean culture and ethnicity and basically still is. Not only was Cleopatra not 'black', but neither were the people she was ruling. Oh sorry shouldn't let facts get in the way of the PC police.
Earth to blacks: Cleopatra was GREEK,NOT(I repeat) NOT black. Get a brain morans!
By the logic expressed in previous posts here, F. W. de Klerk and John "white Zulu chief" Dunn must be played by BLACK actors in future screen plays as they were both native Africans!!!
egyptians are not "black" ...these idiots should stick to hearing insults in greeting cards.
Cleopatra is dead.
She has nooblets posting her bloodline on a blog trying to say that her family lived someplace 300 years, i guess she didnt even breathe while she was there either, how many kids can a brother and sister make? She didnt keep her bloodline pure, she sure nailed those romans, had em whipped too and as far as I know she didnt get any kids out of her brother.
That chick prolly laid the pool boy for breakfast and the doughboy for lunch she was Queen and she did do a lot of hanging out with the locals, thats how she got out of dodge when it got hot. If the people didnt like her or felt totally annoyed by her then they would have turned her over to Octavian alive so he could disgrace her but they didnt.
If she was alive now she would rick roll all of you, bust out a golden barge tell obama our current african leader to get out of the white house and "respect her authoratah!" if he protests all she has to say is "guess what, you look out your window staring at an erect obelisk, lined up with a juicy oval office, this joint is mine behbeh, go back to chicago and take that knuckle cracking assassin with you"
Black people in black mags like to talk about this stuff but in all reality angelina is seen as an annoyance with her brother kissing self, if they had picked Julianna Margulies or possibly that girl from big fat greek wedding it would have been really cool and interesting just for the heck of it, Im black i know cleo was greek and i know she watched people die from poisons as afterdinner entertainment i dont think i would want to play that rotten woman who stole two women's husbands and was an all around psychopath troll. she wore braided hair wigs just like judges in austrailia wear wigs so she would look more like the people she is just like the politicians we have today she spends up the people's money on pearls she drops in wine, gets them in stupid wars and judging by the way she died which was a regular GREEK TRAGEDY its pretty easy to figure out, but in all honesty inner city schools arent famous for teaching the classics,
if this was an issue it would have been in a mag other than essence, there was upset when they got a chinese actress to play the lead in memoirs of a geisha a movie which was just wrong wrong wrong especially since that cad dragged geisha through the mud since he is such a sick ...... anyway, Cleo was a greek, black folks dont believe it because we dont believe anything yall say just for the lulz, it annoys liberals who have occupied our neighborhoods from the 60's please help us they wont leave lol, if jole wears traditional sheer clothes in the movie nobody will care, essence is beauty shop talk people know where Ptolemy came from, everybody knows they weren't egyptian, thats why they conquered Egypt but never possessed it, if they want to pick somebody why dont they get pamela anderson, then at least she can finally be given a role that is WORTHY OF HER MYRIAD OF TALENTS! who cares! now everybody watch cleopatra jones this is the most traffic this site has seen lol
its a celebration
enjoy yourself
As many many posters above have pointed out, Cleopatra VII was of Northern Greek stock, not Egyptian, but native Egyptians weren't black, either - the closest modern descendants of the ancient Egyptians are modern Egyptian Copts, like Boutros Boutros-Ghali.
@astra: "when you say Greek-Macedonian you mean from the greek region of macedonia not FYROM right?"
No; we're talking about roughly two thousand years before either modern Greece or the Republic of Macedonia existed. The ancient Greek Macedonia was just a small part of the modern Greek Macedonia, but in Cleopatra's time Macedonia consisted of the northern part of modern Greek Macedonia, most or all of the modern Republic of Macedonia, a big chunk of modern Bulgaria, and some of modern Albania.
I guess nobody has anything better to do in this country than try to point out "racism" everywhere they look. NFL head coaches, college football coaches, Hollywood, players in MLB. Shut up and get a freaking life! The producers of this Cleopatra movie aren't stupid, they know Jolie is a box office draw. REGARDLESS of the true ethnicity of Cleopatra, nobody would go see that movie if it starred an unknown actress. That is what being an A-list celebrity means. How did this even become newsworthy? People are boycotting movies that don't star "minorities" now?
Why do I keep seeing people making comments about the Egyptians are White as if the Egyptians of today were the Egyptians of Cleopatra's time?
Were the Americans of today, excluding the so-called NATIVE AMERICANS, the people who inhabited America 600 years ago?
Egyptian royalty were of greek (i.e., caucasian descent). The sub-saharan dark-skinned egyptians were the manual laborers and slaves. Get a grip. To the extent the Egyptians accomplished anything, it was because they were lead by Greeks. If you want black actors to play something, let them play the burglars in the home-alarm company commercials.
OK, Cleopatra was Greek. However, it's really silly to assume that the people you see in Egypt now–especially any "white skinned" Egyptians posting here or made mention of, are the same Egyptians from the time of the Pharos and before. Clearly the Egyptians who built the pyramids and gave the world the legacy that still lives on today and cannot even be duplicated were black people–people of color–non-white or Arb. For the life of me I cannot understand why other non black people are threatened by this obvious knowledge. All it takes is two eye balls to see the dark skiinned men and women–women with braided hair (white people, Arabs, Asians don't braid their hair). It's the kinks that lend themselves to this style. And yes, they wore wigs–braided wigs. Further, saying Egyptians were not black, when they left images of themselves that clearly depict them as black–because the people who live their now don't look like the black people you are familiar with today is also ignorant because the people who lived in America 500 years ago didn't look like the people who live here now. Here's the bottom line, black people couldn't really care less about Angelina Jolie. What black people care about is the fact that no matter what we do as a people–art, science, religion, math, literature, language, music, it is always taken over by non-black people (Rap/Hip-Hop is the most modern example) and then white people are given credit for it and then black people are told, it's doesn't matter. How would you feel as an individual if it happened to you? I'm sure you wouldn't like it. So whether you agree with how a lot of black people feel or not, maybe you can at least understand what some of us believe to be a true and why we are unhappy about certain things.At the end of the day, we all kinda laugh at you all for wanting to be like us so much that you lie and cheat and steel to do it. It's sad, but that's just the way it is. We'll just keep coming up with new ideas and moving the world forward...it's our gift and you SHOULD be grateful!!!
Cleopatra was of greek descent and had a hooked nose. They should have picked a beautiful woman with a hooked nose.
I think Halle Barry should play Cleopatra. She's much more like Cleopatra than Angelina. She pushed her way into that movie about the reporter that was killed in the mid east, and that movie was a flop. I can't even remember the name of it. She totally flopped that movie. She's only good in those strike a pose type movies like lara croft. Not real acting movies.
CLEOPATRA WAS GREEK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LEARN HISTORY – END OF ARGUMENT.
I am a Classics student, so suffice to say I know a little bit about Ancient Egypt. I'm no expert in Egyptian history/culture, since I primarily study Rome and Greece. However, that is enough to know that Cleopatra (she was Cleopatra VII, by the way) was not of African descent. Just because someone lives in Africa, it does not mean that he/she is African. She was of the Ptolemaic line of pharoahs, descended from the Greek general Ptolemy. When Alexander the Great died, the territory he conquered (Egypt included) was divided among his three top generals, Ptolemy being one of the three. Since the Ancient Greeks were xenophobic, they did not want to mix with the native Africans; they inbred. Cleopatra's husbands/co-rulers, first Ptolemy XIII and then Ptolemy XIV, were both her brothers. That was the tradition. Of course, she probably had some genetic malformations as a result, but such is life. Having a black woman play the part would be historically incorrect. Cleo was as white as they came, so Angelina is a fine match.
Also, but perhaps less relevant, she was not by current standards physically beautiful. From her image on coins of the time, historians have a good idea of what she looked like: big nosed. It was her charisma, power, and intelligence that attracted both Caesar and Marc Antony. But, this is Hollywood and if an unattractive actress had the lead role, no one would want to see it 😛
Cleopatra was a descendant of the Ptolemys. In other words, that was GREEK blood running through her veins. She was not black.
Like many have already said Cleopatra was of Greek-Macedonian origins..I remember my history professor at Penn State who was black on the first day of my African history class stating that Cleopatra was white and that this afro centric view that she was black was BS. At the PSU main campus there was a hallway in one of the buildings with plaques listing great black people of history and they listed Cleopatra. My black professor said ignore the Cleopatra plaque as it was nothing but silly nonsense. As a historian myself, I was glad to see large number of people posting the truth on this site. I know when i taught at high school level and even at the college level there was a large portion of Afro centric teaching pushing this agenda.
Come on CNN, don't let us down... provide useful commentary. Set the record straight. Dismiss the controversy. State the facts, the consensus of historians.
It is SAD that the comments section to this article provide a more intelligent discussion on the topic than the actual 'article'!
You people are such excuses – yes, you BLACK BLOGGERS. If you want a Black Cleopatra, then make a movie with a black cleopatra. You know what that takes? It takes desire and it takes money. So pony up and provide both! But if someone ELSE puts up the money and has the ambition to do this, WHY IN HELL DO YOU THINK YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO DICTATE WHO THEY SHOULD CAST? It's not your movie, it's not your call, and it's not your choice. Frankly, if you're not contributing one red cent to this picture, no one cares what you think? So go ahead and phone Spike Lee... tell him you have an idea for a script.
Tonie, since you are interested in facts, let me explain to you some facts. It is true that this particular Cleopatra was part of the Ptolemaic dynasties, an alien dynasty to Egypt in every respect, including in its whiteness. Ancient Egypt extended to Ethiopia, not its current modern borders, and was African in every respect. Most significant accomplishments had been achieved by the time the Ptolemies took the reins and these dynasties were a period, generally agreed, of Egypt's decline. In fact, Egypt is derived from a Greek name and the true name of the country was Kemet. The larger issue is why Hollywood avoids portraying ancient "Egyptian" civilization during its periods of highest achievement? Queens Tiye, Hatshetpsut, Nefertari, and many others were all Black (it has been established that not just Nubian civilization that was black). The first significant non-Black invaders were the Hyksos, which started the period of integration there. Sometime following this in the 18th dynasty, native Egyptians, by definition, blacks, were able to seize control again despite the now laughable Euro-esque portrayal of Rameses II (19th) by Yul Brenner we all grew up seeing around Easter. I believe the main issue of many writers here who are expressing their disdain is not so much Cleopatra. Rather, that it is time for the silver screen to portray the "real" ancient Egypt (Kemet) during its time of highest productivity, which lasted millennia, not a period of Egyptian history on the tail end after the country was conquered by alien invaders who were more Hellenistic and Greek than Egyptian and African.
Some people here obviously don't know their geography or history, and yet they still spew out their uneducated knowledge.
Fact 1: Cleopatra was Greek and if you don't believe that well then get out your encyclopedia or get on to Google and search it up yourself. He father was a Greek general and her mother was from pontus (another Greek state).
Most people who don't belive that fact are so turned upside down by their political or personal agenda that they are willing to believe in fairytales.
Fact 2: Most Egyptians arn't black, but a minority are. Historians from the ancient period have spoken time and time again that the Egyptians were very much in 'Semetic ' apearance(like Arabs, Jews, Babylonians, etc). The 'Black' Egyptians that were written about in history were called 'Nubians' and they were a minority in Egypt and were a rival power that neighboured Egypt. Early egyptian rulers were thought to be Black but that was a time in early Egyptian periods.
Egypt still is and has for most of its past been most of its past inhabited by the 'Semetic' majority.
Fact 3: Most of northern Africa is populated by either Arabs, Berbers, decendants of Greeks and Spaniards and also 'Black's.
Please some of you, get your facts right before you start saying crap like 'Africa is only or mostly black' because it isn't! It is a multi ethnic continent just like every other continent in the world!
1st – Egyptians are not Black. If you visit Egypt, you would see that. The closer you get to the southern border next to Sudan, Egyptians are darker, due to mating with the Sudanese.
2nd – Cleopatra was Greek!
SHE WILL BE " PERFECT " FOR CLEO ! JOLIE IS A VERY, VERY , VERY BEAUTIFUL WOMAN !
Cleopatra was black, but no one wants too see that, the majority of people would rather see angelina. stop hating
Tonie234 – when you first spoke I did find some merit in what you were saying. But now you are saying some deragtory comments that are very racist. You have mixed some legit facts/opinions with some racists comments, and SURPRISE! – you want black people to listen and understand you. Obviously you don't like black people or yourself for that matter.
I remember the English actor Jonathan Pryce who was selected to play a Eurasian pimp in the Broadway production of Miss Saigon. At that time, members of the Asian-American artistic community cried foul. I see no racism here. To me this is not even an ethical issue. This is purely an economic decision. The bottom line here matters.
personally, i don't care what color the actress is that plays cleo. my only thought when i read jolie was being cast for the part was it must be a 'b' movie. acting isn't exactly jolie's forte. pitt, as antony, would bring some credibility to the movie. if i were guessing, i'd say jolie has been offered the part to attract pitt.
Cleopatra was Greek; her fathe4r was Ptolemy and her mother was Cleopatra Tryphena, daughter of king Mithridates of Pontus.
I think she's be Fantastic! She's great in everything she's ever been in! Cleopatra wasn't black anyway – she was Macedonian (that's kind of like Greek) and very short and fat. I guess people need something to do.
everyone should do research. Cleopatra was neither Egyptian or African. She was Greek
For anyone that thinks Cleopatra isn't black, what do you think Egyptians are??? Egypt is In Africa! She was a black woman, Homer look at a GLOBE!!!
Even the historians can not agree on Cleopatra's genetic race. I wasn't there, didn't see her and can't say I know what she looked like, but I'm pretty confident in saying she did NOT have white skin. I don't believe she had black skin either. The African continent today and the peoples that populate it, is not the same as it was centuries ago. Black and white folk alike are trying to claim this historical figure, and neither side has definitive proof of her race. With all the roles available for white actors/actresses out there, I think this role should have been given to someone of color (not necessarily black), to give those who don't have the opportunity to work in mainstream Hollywood, a job. Heck get Melina Kanakaredes to play the part...at least she's Greek and has SOME color. BTW – yeah, I'm black. 'Ver!
I find it extremely offensive that every time the subject of Cleopatra is brought up, black people always claim that she was black. Um, no she wasn't. She was of Greek lineage. Read your history. Do black people even realize that not everyone who is actually born on the continent of Africa is black? There are mixed races, Mediterranean, Arabic and other smaller ethnic groups as well.
I would think they would want a real good or even GREAT actress to play the part. That being a fact would certainly remove Angelina from the roll. She is not worthy to play Cleopatra.....
Lost History
Julius Ceasar & Cleopatra had a son named cesar
Mark Antony & Cleopatra had 3 children boy/girl twins
and another boy.
When ceasar was murdered by the roman senate and his oldest son Octavious took the throne
Octavious sent troops to Egypt to kill Cesar as a possible hier to the throne.
Before she died Cleopatra sent cesar to India with an envoy for his safety.
Cesar studied Budism in India for 13 years (13 missing years of Jesus Christ)
When he turned 33, he returned to (judea ?) to reclaim his throne as Jesus Christ
(JC = Julius Ceasar)
While alive The roman senate declared Ceasar a god, and Cesar son of god.
What was Jesus Christ ?
Son of god.
Cesar changed his name so he would not be killed by the romans
Mary Magdalene (one of the twins)
was Jesus' half sister.
History has many mysteries.
How do we know if Cleopatra was dark skin or not... This racist card game must stop. Angela Jolie is perfect for this part. Especially with her talents in acting. As far as I am concern there are plenty of African women who can and do act, same with all other races. Go thru the channels on tv ... you'll see.
Wow, imagine that. Another black bigoted publication playing the race card when even their own logic is false. Does anyone even care anymore?
I think the overriding factor here is Angelina's beauty. Cesar wanted her, Mark Anthony wanted her, history in her area was altered by her love life. You need a woman of extraordinary beauty, combined with a cool aloofness, able to turn on the fire in an eyeblink. This is your lady, she'll be better than Liz Taylor (no disrespect to Dame Elizabeth)
Acsanamu, I noticed that you did not mentioned black culture, etc.
How about you all just shut the hell up?
Doh!
Ptolemy XII of Egypt was born 117BC, died 51BC.
Incorrect dates in last post.
order should be
Kleopatra I. of Syria b: (204) d: (176)
Ptolemy VIII of Egypt b: (184/83) d: (28.06.116)
Ptolemy IX. of Egypt b: (143/42) d: (Dez. 81)
Ptolemy XII of Egypt b: (117) d: (51)
sorry folks
Cleopatra was descended from Greek rulers of Egypt, i.e., white.
i think Ms.Keys.........our R&B diva should play this part.....She is my favourate actoress, however just do the colour/colors a favour.... and find us a colored/coloured QUEEN....for once...please and thank you
The Ptolemaic dynasty of Egypt–of whom Cleopatra VII was the final direct ruling member–were not native Egyptians. The Ptolemies were instead Macedonian Greeks, descended from one of the generals of Alexander the Great, after the break up of his empire upon his own death.
Unfortunately, I think the trivial outrage over this movie (which will likely be horrible, anyway) is based upon people wanting to re-invent the past because they know nothing about it. There are lots of amazing historical feats by sub-Saharan Africans; indeed, there were African empires building magnificent monuments and living in cities when Europeans were living in isolated hovels waiting for the end of the world.
There is no need to rewrite history about one's own ancestors. Just read a book and find out about the real deal, and you'll see that everyone has interesting history that's worth being proud of. There's no need to make believe!
Jesus and Santa are are played by white people too. Jolie isn't historically accurate but it would be fitting for her to take on a role made so famous by elizabeth taylor since she is the liz taylor of today (i.e. no one wants to let their husband star in a movie with her b/c she will steal them). the woman needs to gain some weight however.
i don't care how people write that Egyptians were of different shades, the botton line is none of them were European,, get it people,, they were of different shades of COLOR. from light brown to the blackest of black,, it should have gone to a woman of color, again white people trying to steal another part of history,,i"m sure people would b up n arms if Julius Ceasar was play by Wesley snipes,,,, ....
You all know that Cleopatra was Greek right? She was descended from Ptolomy – one of Alexander's generals – who took control of Egypt after Alexander died (who had previously conquered the kingdom). The family didn't intermarry with local stock so she would have been very close to 100% Greek (well, Macedonian). As such, having a white woman play her is far more accurate than having a black or middle eastern woman play her.
Why not get a fair skinned African descendent to play her? Paula Patton, Zoe Saldana, Halle Berry-they are of mixed heritage but still considered black-that way everybody is happy.
Sincerely
A woman too black to play Cleopatra, Queen of Egypt
Several years ago I came across an article written by a professor who was trying very hard to understand and be sympathetic to the Afrocentric movement while obviously feeling nervous that it was going to discredit her specialty – Egyptology. Ironically, in trying to be understanding – she made the most devastating case for the pathetic grasping for something to be proud of that drives the Afrocentric curriculum and ethos. Read here – and be aware that junk history like this permeates public schools in America: http://www.africa.upenn.edu/Articles_Gen/afrocent_roth.html
Cleopatra a black African woman? No f'ing way with a name like that. If she'd been named Shiqwana, then perhaps.
If Essence wants Cleopatra to be acted by an black African woman, then they should pony up the $ to make their own movie.
There is a lot of backlash simply because Angelina is white and Cleopatra was a pharoh in Egypt. I personally don't see her as a Cleopatra like actress. However, those who are claiming that she should not get the part because she is white are the history of Egypt. Cleopatra was from the house of Ptolmey–Greek invaders with Alexander the Great–she was Greek in descent. I welcome those proponents who want to argue otherwise to look at the statues of her from the time period (when our current racial ideals were non-existent) and the coins. Actually, in reality Cleopatra was not a beauty. She however was a genius and a patriot of her nation of Egypt.
Now if this was a movie of some of the other Great Wifes or women who became Pharoh, then I would agree that such a woman should not be played by a white woman.
This isn't a question of race. It is a question of history.
I dont have an issue with Jolie playing the role. But, if it has to be a sista (woman of color) playing the role it has to be no one other than Zoe Saldena. She looks the part more than any other.
It's ridiculous to call for a black actress to play a Greek woman just because she lived in Africa. Next up, let's have black actors play the Afrikaner rulers of South Africa in a Mandela biopic.
I am so sick of seeing A Jolie that I'd rather see a gay man play Cleo than her!
Lol. "Egypt is not Africa". Is that like saying Arizona is not America? I love it how a country in Africa isnt African? FYI: There is no proof of all of Cleopatra's heritage. Only 25% is Greek for sure. Her mother was believed to be a slave/a concubine.`Her grandmother was considered Nubian.
where was the outrage when eartha kitt and halle berry played the catwoman? where was the outrage when the honeymooners was remade with a black cast? nick fury originated as a Caucasian in the comic books yet sam jackson plays him in the movies. the character gilbert was also Caucasian, but when the leave it to beaver movie was cast a black actor played the part. in the movie white chicks two black actors appeared in white face. the character of james west was played by robert conrad in the series the wild wild west , but by will smith in the movie.
After giving it some thought I think AJ is wrong for this part. If they were going for historical accuracy anyways. Natalie Portman would have been a much better fit.
If the movie really needs to be remade (I don't think any of the previous movies have made any money), I cannot think of any actress today who could portray her better.
I'd say Lucy Leu or Margaret Cho plays the part!
Um, people need to read up on history. Cleopatra was Macedonian, thats just north of Greece in Europe. So to historically represent her accurately she would need to be played by a white woman of European decent.
Leave it to hollywood blogs to know nothing of history. The other point would be of course that there is the issue with box office draw. Casting for movies is of course most often going to go to a A list celeberity especially in a drama movie with most likely little action.
If an African American or somebody with mixed background would be chosen to the role of Cleopatra, the actress should have some visible Nubian characteristics. Africa is a big place with lot of different characteristics to choose from, after all. Otherwise, Jolie is as a good choice as anyone else is, with the similar roles behind her.
Responses to this article only shows how many ignorant people in the US are about other countries and their history as well how racially divided this nation is. It is just a movie not en entry into the history books. If you want accuracy it should be an Egyptian actress with greek ancestory and if they are looking for someone to play Anthony they better find an Italianfrom Rome.
People need to learn their history. Cleopatra was the Queen of Egypt, but she was not Egyptian. She was Macedonian, a descendant of a general of Alexander the Great named Ptolemy. Cleopatra is a very Greek name. She would have looked European. This is a controversy borne of ignorance of basic historical truths
Why are all you White people so angry with black people? Who really gives a damn? Does Angelina know you personally or Cleopatra? My goodness you all sound so foolish with your angry; get a life, get edcated, move on.... We are all mixed race!!!
Why not just have Oprah play Cleo and her best friend Gail can play Mark Anthony!!!! Will that make Essence Happy now?
I'm getting really tired here of the African-American community trying to lay claim to a heritage that is not theirs. Go to any large museum and you'll see street vendors selling reproductions of tomb paintings with black faces. It just isn't true. Go inside the museum and take a good look. The Egyptians were a Caucasian race. Sharing the African continent does not make them "African" any more than I look like a Mexican. And as all the educated respondents have already stated, Cleopatra VII Philopator was of Greek descent. Even her name was Greek!
How blatantly racist can you get? To suggest that someone is inappropriate for a movie role because of the color of their skin, whether white or brown, is racism. Don't listen to the bigots at Essence. Maybe Essence should wake-up to their afro-supremacist tendencies.
I think Cleopatra should be the only person to play Cleopatra.
Time machine or genetic reconstruction. Take your pick, but anything else would just be too "unrealistic" and definitely not "true to history".
As much as different groups want to 'claim' Cleopatra, history shows she was fair skinned and eyed. That is what made her exotic to both Egyptians and the Romans, because she had her country's dress and wore dark wigs (as did a lot of Egyptians who as a people at the time shaved most body hair) but had fair features. This was also part of the charm she used, because she herself from historical portraits was not that beautiful – more unusual. Imported ruling families was not uncommon and their being exotic often help in keeping their power.
While the Egyptian people were a mix, fairer in the Upper Kingdom and darker in the Lower, Cleo herself did retain the Macedonia looks.
Reply to ROBERT: Gandhi enacted by Krishna Pandit Bhanji, aka Ben Kingsley.
Cleo was born in Egypt, which is in Africa, making her AFRICAN. And alot of people are saying if you go to Africa now that not everyone is black...Thats true but...its 2010!!!! Lets go to 69BC South Africa, Kenya, Morocco, Ethiopia, or Egypt and see how many fair skinned or white individuals we can find.
iactuallyread
If i am dark skinned how can I also be white?? Besides that, to say the Egyptians r white in general also makes little sense because 99% of the population has my skin tone....(im considered by 100% of everyone I have met to be "black") and of course Egypt is in Africa, so egyptians are african, and I will say this, back then most africans were not white.
Whether or not she is the right actress to play Cleopatra depends on your perspective. From a realism/authenticity perspective, probably not. However, the main thing a movie needs to do is make money and big name stars draw crowds and increase the chance (most of the time) that people will buy tickets and see the movie, i.e. having a big star is a financial risk reducer.
angelina would do a great job she a good actress and soo pretty .. i notice that really early in egyptian history that the painting the people looked more white thin noses smaller in size. than meny years later they looked more like africans wide noses taller guess i need to read more about it hope she gets the part . holly berry would be good too
tThere's a difference between sub-Saharan Africans and those in Northern Africa. Just think of Morroco too, and how most of them look. ..it's not the same as those from say, Kenya or Nigeria.
The Maedonians were not of the same ethnicity as the southern greeks. They had fair skin and auburn or blond hair, just like Alexander the Great.
I think Sandra Bullock would make better Cleo. Look at some of the portraits and paintings of Cleo and tell me you don't see similiar facial features in Bullock
I'm just tired of seeing her (or her husband) everywhere I look... enough already! Pick some other people for heaven's sake. She is not a good actress at all. The only thing she is good at, is getting media attention thru her scandals and that adoption obsesion she has.
NEWSFLASH: CLEOPATRA'S FAMILY LINE WAS FROM GREECE.
You know, usually I argue for roles of historical figures to be portrayed by correctly by Asians, Indians, Mexicans or whatever. But Cleopatra's family was from Greece – they were a Macedonian family. The Egyptian natives were basically held under the ruling class of people – kind of like the way Spaniards did with native Mexicans, until most of them mixed together anyway. But Jolie playing Cleopatra, while maybe annoying, wouldn't be historically incorrect in that sense.
Why don't we pretend that the Vikings were black too? Cleopatra was of Macedonian stock. Hanibal was an Arab. Get over it.
I AM A BLACK WOMAN AND CLEOPATRA WAS FROM THE LINE OF PTOLEMY. THEY WERE GREEK! I CAN SAY, THAT I DO NOT KNOW WHO HER MOTHER WAS, I CAN ONLY ASSUME THAT SHE MAY HAVE BEEN GREEK OR EYGPTIAN. SO ANY WOMAN WHO HAS SOMEWHAT EXOTIC FEATURES CAN PLAY HERE.
I UNDERSTAND WHY MOST BLACK PEOPLE WOULD BE UPSET ABOUT THIS BUT OUR ANGER IS MISPLACED ON THIS ONE. THE NUBIANS ALSO RULED EGYPT BEFORE THE PTOLEMY EMPIRE TOOK OVER EYGPT BUT THERE ARE NO EPICS BEING DONE IN HOLLYWOOD ABOUT THIS OR MANY OTHER ANCIENT AFRICAN CIVILIZATIONS THAT WERE NOT JUST RUNNING THROUGH THE BUSH WITH SPEARS! I ALSO WISH THAT EPICS WERE CREATED SHOWING OUR RICH HERITAGE; HOW WE TRAVELLED TO THE NEW WORLD BEFORE COLUMBUS, HOW COLUMBUS WAS GUIDED BY AFRICANS TO THE NEW WORLD WHICH IS LEFT OUT OF MANY HISTORY BOOKS. IT IS QUITE FRUSTRATING. HOWEVER, WITH ALL THE MONEY THAT NBA PLAYERS, OPRAH AND OTHER WEALTHY BLACK ENTERTAINERS HAVE; YOU MEAN TO TELL ME THEY CANNOT CREATE THEIR OWN PRODUCTION COMPANY AND PRODUCE THESE EPICS FOR US. THEREBY, ENLIGHTENING THE WORLD TO OUR HISTORY AND UPLIFTING OUR YOUTH THAT WE ARE NOT JUST DESCENDANTS FROM SLAVES? NOT ONLY IS THERE RICH AFRICAN HISTORY BUT THERE IS ALSO RICH CARIBBEAN HISTORY.... ALSO ON A BIBLICAL NOTE: THE QUEEN OF SHEBA COULD BE DONE BY A BLACK WOMAN OTHER THAN HALLE BERRY OR BEYONCE...LOL!. AS WELL AS ZAPPORAH, THE WIFE OF MOSES WHO WAS FROM THE LAND OF MIDIAN. I QUITE FRANKLY WAS ANNOYED AT JAKE GYLLENHAAL PLAYING THE PRINCE OF PERSIA! HEY! WHAT CAN WE DO? THIS WILL CONTINUE TO HAPPEN UNTIL THE PEOPLE OF COLOR START PRODUCING THEIR OWN EPICS AND PUTTING THEM OUT THERE OR UNTIL THE PEOPLE WHO RUN HOLLYWOOD DECIDE THAT IT CAN BE PROFITABLE TO PRODUCE AN EPIC ON PEOPLE OF COLOR.
SO ON A FINAL NOTE; ANGELINA CAN PLAY CLEOPATRA, SO CAN ANY OTHER WHITE ACTRESS IN HOLLYWOOD AS FAR AS I AM CONCERNED!
The only Greek-American actresses I can think of are comedians - Jennifer Aniston and Tina Fey and Amy Sedaris. None are right for the role. Go Italian instead - there are a lot more Italian-American actresses who could do the job. How about a biracial actress? Give it a little more thought.
What most people seem to miss here is that while Cleopatra was the Queen of Eygpt, she was of Persian stock. She was not black sorry guys. She was not white either. So Maybe an Eva Mendes or Halley Berry would be more closer to the real Cleopatra. But Hollywood will never give a role like that to anyone but a white person.
I don't see what the issue is, i have seen movies based up on books where the lead character is a white male and when the movie is made an African American plays the part, so why the difference now?
The bone collector, was made into a movie and Densel Washington played Lincoln Rhymes (did a fantastic job as well ) but in the book from which this movie is based Lincoln is a white man.
They also made a movie of one of John Sanford books (One of the Prey Series) Lucas Davenport is a olive complectied white male (possible germanic blood line) and his character was played also by a man of color.
We don't know for sure that Cleopatra was African descent or not so what is the issue
Cleopatra father was Greek/Macedonian. She spoke Egyptian – which accounted for her popularity. She was NOT black or at least not ALL black or brown. What are these people upset at? History and facts are not subject to political correctness or positive image reinforcement. Cleopatra was NOT ALL African...she was ethnically Greek/Macedonian (fathers side) – but, she was the leader of Egypt.
Maybe Hallie Berry would meet the criterion of these complainers.
Not sure anyone has brought this up or not, but not only was Cleopatra of Greek heritage but also there is a chance that there was a lot of incest going on in her family line. So the chances of any race other than Greek being in her background is very very very small.
Cleopatra wasn't black, though. She was a member of the Ptolemaic dynasty, had Macedonian heritage and spoke Greek (although she learned Egyptian).
This article by CNN is just plain lazy reporting and very misleading for the simple fact that THERE IS NO BACKLASH against Jolie as Cleopatra. I read the original (totally ignorant) article at Essence.com and on the reader comments for the piece almost EVERYBODY states that the writer is making a mountain out of a molehill and playing the race card over nothing. Shame on you CNN for adding fuel to a non-exisiting fire.
There's seriously "Backlash" over this?
Americans need to get a life and adjust their priorities.
Cleopatra was an Egyptian but she was not black. The Egyptians living there are basically the same people that were there 3000 years ago. The suggestion that the modern Egyptians came from somewhere else is BS.
I firmly believe some white historians tried to rewrite history according to their superior believes and not facts. Many Egyptians discoveries came about from white historians who could not believe African blacks had anything to do with such a great civilization so they wrote it their way. Wish it wasn't true but its happened and that's a fact. I have spoken to native Africans who absolutely believe Ancient Egypt was built by Egyptian blacks. How could it not be? There weren't many white skinned folks around then. It wasn't until later when Egypt was conquered by others did the mixing begin and brought about the lighter skin tones. Cleo probably was Greek – I don't really care, but make no mistake – darker skinned Africans started it all (whites were not native to Africa during this time in case that wasn't obvious) they have migrated in or conquered other lands where people of color exist as always in history. I would also say you can't live that close to the black continent without having some black blood running thru your veins suggesting Italians, Greeks, Arabs all have some black African ancestry, especially if you have even a hint of curl in your hair. We're all tied together in someway shape or form...
Halle Berry wpi;d be better. Brad Pitt was a disaster as Alexander, I don't see him any better as Mark Anthony. He is too American looking.
I believe that a better candidate might be Rosario Dawson. She is of "color", though Hispanic which gives a great exotic feel, as well as being a proven actress she can play many versatile roles.
Cleopatra, was not an Egyptian ethnically. She was 100% Greek. Her family, the Ptolomies, was incestuous only intermarrying amongst themselves in Egypt. Seems like a cool choice to me.
Sorry, Ralph; you need a geography lesson – Egypt is in AFRICA, and Cleopatra was EGYPTIAN; therefore, she WAS African.
This comment is directed at Lily:
Per comment:
Lily
"Being of the Ptolemaic line of Egyptian pharoahs, Cleopatra was primarily of Macedonian (Greek) descent. She was not a woman of color. People really need to get over that. I don't know why African-Americans are always insisting that she was black, because she wasn't. Busts and coins from her lifetime depict Cleopatra with caucasian features. Angelina would be a great fit for this role, as she is a talented actress."
My comment:
As an African American woman, I find it extremely offensive for you to state and I quote... "I don't know why African-Americans are always insisting that she was black, because she wasn't. Busts and coins from her lifetime depict Cleopatra with caucasian features."
What exactly defines caucasian features? Furthermore, what defines African American features? Last time I checked...African Americans and ALL PEOPLE, come in all sizes, shapes, and colors. Therefore, again I state...who are you to make such an ignorant statement???
A. Jolie is an awesome actress by the way... 🙂
I just don't see Jolie as a Cleopatra. I mean she's about 2 big lips on stick now.
For all you people talkng something about Egyptians and being white.
I know some black people that are as light as a lot of white people.
Anyway, I think they need someone voluptous for the part of cleopatra.
If she wasn't such a dumba$$ and could act Kim Kardashian would make a good Cleopatra. I just don't think I could take watching her try to act for 2 hours in a movie.
I mean she has the look and the body for a Cleopatra but thats all.
Rachael Wiez might do all right.
All these beanpole actresses just couldn't do Cleopatra though.
CLEOPATRA WAS NOT BLACK!!! GO GET A FIFTH GRADE HISTORY BOOK ESSENCE MAGAZINE.
Let Jennifer Aniston play Cleo, Brad Pitt play M.A. and Jolie can watch as Jen steals Brad back...
To everyone who keeps saying that Cleopatra was not African, please look at a world map. Egypt is in fact, in Africa. Cleopatra was in fact a very dark skinned woman. Our bodies adapt to the environment we live in. During her time, the Egyptians had the propensity to be outside-they farmed, built their cities, gathered water at the river-most of their activities would have occured outside. Their bodies would have adapted to that, darkening their skin to keep them from burning. The point here, I believe, is that there are many, many qualified black actresses who can portray Cleopatra successfully. Why should Angelina Jolie play yet another black woman? The entire world would throw a hissy fit if you had a black man, no matter how "light skinned" he may be, to play John Kennedy, for instance. It's not a question of whether or not she could play the part well. But, as I said, there are also many black actresses who could play the part just as well AND be ethnically correct. Why shouldn't they choose a black woman to play this part?
The equality meter swings both ways. Even if Cleo was dark skinned, why could'nt she be depicted by a white woman. African Americans have a President of their color. Get off the victim train people.
Cleopatra was MACEDONIAN, NOT Egyptian, in terms of her bloodline. Learn your history, please. Cleopatra is a Macedonian name, and Cleopatra herself was a Ptolemy, a descendant of a Macedonian general who served under Alexander the Great.
She was NOT black. We have lots of sources who wrote about her during her life and afterwards, and NONE of them mention her as being black.
Stop with the race-baiting, folks.
OK let's be politically correct, the next Godzilla film director should cast call for a real 100 foot tall reptilian. Give me a break!
opposing a white woman playing Cleopatra is racist. you should all be beaten and burned
She can certainly pull it off. St. Angie is a great woman & actress. So she gets a tan if needed. no big whoop.
I am not sure why so many people are calling others ignorant and asserting as fact that Cleopatra was Greek. THe truth is that no one knows for sure what she was, or what she looked like, although we are fairly certain she possessed BOTH African and Greek ancestry.
To say that she is a Greek because she had Greek relatives is like saying that Obama is white because his mother is white. THe Cleopatra in question was most likely a mixture of African and European descent, like many African Americans.
To assert that Cleopatra is Greek, and deny the facts of history, is a form of symbolic racism – a denial that racism exists, and an indirect attack on African Americans. Shame on you!!!!
...so Cleopatra was African-American?
You know there is such a thing as just plain old Africans.
Newsflash Ralf: Egypt is in Africa.
Ralph
Got to think there are a number of arab woman who could play the part. Cleo was not an African.
If you don't like Angelina as Cleopatra then don't pay to see the movie.
Elsewise, get a life.
Read your History.
Cleopatra was Greek desent. From one of Alexander"s generals. Ptholomy(?) Northern Greek area.
If race back then was anything like it is today, the Ptolemy Dynasty would have been hiding that one drop of black blood. Hollywood will hire the actress that will bring in the most money and that probably will not be a black actress. Black actors in films do not draw the crowds in Europe, so I've read. If folks are upset over this, just wait till someone seriously ponders the casting of a black actor as Jesus Christ. After all, there are those who don't believe that He was white or Jewish.
Cleopatra is of Greek decent. I say let a Greek woman play her. First person that comes to mind is Melina Kanakaredes. She's got that Greek beauty that I personally think is haunting yet classic.
Let me start off by saying I really don't care who plays the character of Cleopatra...
I just wanted to state that certain individuals like to interpret things in their own way... I sternly believe that Cleopatra was of African descent... guess what I could pass for a Caucasian woman any day and you know what I am African American.. YES I am bi-racial but I am African American... so what does that tell you.. I just want individuals to stop trying to portray Cleopatra as a Caucasian lady because she was NO WHERE near Caucasian...
As many have mentioned, it's a well known fact that the ruling class in Egypt at the time was almost exclusively of Greek heritage. They intermarried to preserve the royal bloodline, so it is unlikely that Cleo was "Egyptian". That being said, Angelina doesn't look very Greek either.
It doesn't matter who play the role, the movie will bomb anyway. She will just make it even less bankable.
Why are they going on and on about an African woman should play the part. They should have done their homework and then they would have seen that Cleopatra was of Greek decent and not African! This article is bull! But I do agree that Angelina is not suited for this part!
What a ridiculous debate. The real Cleopatra was no more a "black woman" than she was a Smurf - this is History 101, people.
You do realize that Cleopatra is decedent of the Greeks right? Just saying, so a white women is a logical choice.
ding dong. whats going on here
Since Cleo was Greek, make the version " My Big Fat Greek Wedding on the Nile."
where was the outrage when eartha kitt and halle berry played the catwoman? where was the outrage when the honeymooners was remade with a black cast? nick fury originated as a Caucasian in the comic books yet sam jackson plays him in the movies. the character gilbert was also Caucasian, but when the leave it to beaver movie was cast a black actor played the part.
Cleopatra was a Ptolemy. That family was one of Alexander's generals and was Greek. So Cleopatra was Greek.
Ergo, white.
I'm not a big fan of Angelina Jolie, but I actually think she would we well cast as Cleopatra. Keep in mind the real Cleopatra was not a native Egyptian, she was of Greek ancestry from a mostly pure (even incestuous) bloodline. If you look at the (few) reliable ancient images we have today of Cleopatra, she doesn't look African and actually does look a bit like Angelina Jolie, perhaps with a fuller face. Cleopatra was not the great beauty of her day; rather, her intelligence and engaging personality are what won attention.
Jolie should play Cleo no more than Russel Crowe should play Michael Jackson!
The Ptolemy dynasty of which Cleopatra was a member was from Greece. They were olive skinned not black. The only problem with Jolie is she is TOO DAMNED SKINNY! She needs to put some weight on that bod and get her boobs back.
I wonder if folks from the Congo or Liberia or Kenya or Morocco or Tanzania or Sudan or Mali or Ghana or Chad are as outraged as African-Americans are.
I am willing to wager they aren't, since they don't have the concept of "black people" like Americans do. In Morocco, for example, Berbers do not consider themselves to be anything like the rest of the groups in Morocco, much less the rest of the continent.
Either they pick an Egyptian actress or they can pick whoever they think fits the role since a "black" actress would have the same issues as a white one for the role. Egyptians were Egyptian. Cleopatra had Ptolemaic blood in her, making her a mix.
She can't act her way out of a handbasket anyway. She's quite ugly. So give her the role with her boy lover Brad.
im quoting an actual archaelogist who has previously posted on this question:
"Cleopatra's mother 'was African'
Elizabeth Taylor's European Cleopatra persists in the public imagination
Cleopatra, the last Egyptian Pharaoh, renowned for her beauty, was part African, says a BBC team which believes it has found her sister's tomb.
Queen Cleopatra was a descendant of Ptolemy, the Macedonian general who ruled Egypt after Alexander the Great.
But remains of the queen's sister Princess Arsinoe, found in Ephesus, Turkey, indicate that her mother had an "African" skeleton.
Experts have described the results as "a real sensation."
The discovery was made by Hilke Thuer of the Austrian Academy of Sciences.
"It is unique in the life of an archaeologist to find the tomb and the skeleton of a member of Ptolemaic dynasty," she said.
They were real people and not the semi-mythical figures portrayed by Richard Burton and Elizabeth Taylor
Archaeologist Neil Oliver"
so i guess that means she was mixed:part-Maecdonian, part-African.
not really a stretch , since cleopatra WAS queen of an african nation. it has been also surmised by MANY historians,archaelogists, and geneticists that many mediterranean europeans more than likely have DIRECT african ancestry.
hye, i just remembered; didn't the moors occupy spain,greece,and italy for 900 years?yeah, dennis hopper gave a nice soliliquy on that topic in the film, True Romance.
so um... get soledad obrien 2 play cleopatra. just as physically qualified as angelina....
I can't believe Cleopatra just became White..............................................LOL
Ben Kingsley was half Indian. FYI
Cleopatra was the last Egyptian Pharoah. Yes, she was from Egypt, but, she was also a from the Ptolomy Dynasty. Anyone who knows about Ancient Egypt knows that the Macedonian (Greek), Alexander the Great conquored Egypt and left Ptolomy I in charge thuis starting that dynasty. Cleopatra was of greek blood! Do your research!!! I think Jolie would be a great choice.
...the real cleopatra was under 4 feet tall and over 300 lbs... i'm just saying. i'm sick of hollywood "historical" movies.
SERIOUSLY IT LOOKS LIKE IS ANOTHER MEDIA PROPAGANDA TO CONTROL MOBB AND TELL THEM WHAT TO THINK....I POTSED YESTERDAY COMMENTS LIKE ANGELINA IS SOOO PERFECT FOR THIS ROLE BECAUSE
OF THE COMPLEXITY OF CHARACTER AND OTHER DIMENSION OF PERSONALITIES.
ANGELINA IS MUCH,MUCH MORE THEN THE REST OF THIS HOLYWOOD ACTRESSES,THEY SO LAME
LIKE EMPTY NUTSHELLS WHER THE SOUL SUPOSE TO RESIDE,JOLIE IS ON HIGHER LEVEL OF EVOLUTION
IT REALLY DIDNT MATTTER IF SHE WILL PLAY OR NOT SHE SHINE HER LIGHT AND MAKE OTHER WOMEN PROUD
Lest we forget: the real Cleopatra, like all of the Ptolemaic pharaohs, was of GREEK descent! She was highly unlikely to be black! Jolie is as believable as Cleo as anyone else. There is no reason to insist upon a black Cleopatra other than to set a precedent, since few if any Greeks are black.
Just as an FYI for all of you mentioning Ghandi, Indians are Caucasian, anthropologically speaking, just as Egyptians and most of the peoples of the Middle East happen to be.
I think she should be played by a Native American. Preferably a double major.
Maybe that Indian lady Aiswariya Rai or Salma Hayek should play that role that would match perfectly
Listen...there are so many more important issues to discuss than trying (key word..trying because after thousands of years, NO ONE in THIS LIFETIME really knows) to figure out what color/race Cleopatra was. Who the hell cares!!!!!! Make the movie as historically correct as possible and be done with it! This is just another example on how Americans...of ALL RACES, are too caught up with the superficial aspect of this movie and not about how this movie is to depict the life of an Egyptian queen...regardless of her ancestry! Too much damn debate on this....move on people!!!
Angie. Only Angie. She's so exotically beautiful I will want to
see this movie because of her beauty.
If they want to have an accurate portrayal, then they need to get an actress who has a close resemblance to Cleopatra. I've seen the monuments and drawings of Cleopatra. Based on my observation, there is no clear distinction of race. I would rather have a great actress portray her if the movie is just as great.
Cleopatra, the famous one and the 7th and last Cleopatra, was NOT Egyptian and not of African dark-skinned descent. She was the daughter of Ptolemy, who was Macedonian (which is in Europe). He was a general in Alexander the Great's army and his trusted advisor. Alexander came to rule Egypt when he liberated Egypt from Persian rule. Yes, by this time in history, Egypt was no longer ruled by Egyptians.
Ptolemy ascended to rule Egypt after the death of Alexander. Alexander the Great was also not Egyptian, but Macedonian. Macedonians were generally fair skinned with brown or blond hair.
Cleopatra was NOT a beautiful woman, as Hollywood insists on depicting her so they can sell tickets. Instead her allure and ability to attract powerful men (first Julius Caeser, then Mark Antony) was her intelligence, assertiveness and ambition, unusual for women of that era. Images depicting her show her with a decidedly large and hooked nose. I am the proud owner of an authentic bronze drachma from her reign showing her profile. Yikes, what a nose! lol
The very early history of Egypt included very dark-skinned rulers, called Pharoahs, who had physical and facial similarities to modern day black Africans. Some rulers were very dark, others much lighter. But by the time of Cleopatra and those who followed her, it was Europeans who ruled over Egypt, and thus they were Caucasians.
If you ever have the fortune to travel to Egypt, as I have on several occasions, and see their museums and ancient temples, you'll see what I'm talking about.
So the objection of a 'white' woman portraying Cleopatra is not historically relevant. Instead we should object to beautiful women portraying her!
my friends, there is no doubt the egyptias are africans as well as the carthatgenias. the egyptians of ancient times were african, but not black. To be african does not mean to be black. since ancient times there has been a remarkable diference between subsaharan (south of the sahara descert) africans (the ones with "black skin") and the africans that lived north of the sahara. The reazon why we see people with black skin in the rescued egyptian artifacts, paintings, etc, is because the egyptians had a dynasty for about 100 years of the nubian line of kings. in other periods egyptians also captured and enslaved the nubians, a remarkable civilization occupied lands north and south of the sahara. they were black skin people. the egyptians themselves where not black per se, they where in their entire majority more like a middle eastern people. It is true maybe some of them might have been mixed with the nubians. Anyways cleopatra, was not egyptian she was of greek descendance. the carthageneans are another good example. they were a phoenician colony (phoenicians are today's lebanese), therefore they were not black, neither were black the people they conquered. still in the history channel they represented annibal as a man with black features, and his father amilcar as black, and that is a big mistake. the ancient sculpture of annibal shows otherwise he was not black.
yall just hate black ppl, just admit it.
...and you're a racist.
I think that the little black girl from the movie Precious would be the perfect Cleopatra...LOL...Come on people, are we really going to argue about whether or not a black woman plays Cleopatra...you bunch of racists!
The part should have gone to the woman who played Russell Crowe's wife in Gladiator, Giannina Facio. She is Costa Rican but definitely has the look. She's a beautiful woman and would do the part justice. Just my opinion...
I think that we should go full cause of political correctness and cast Gabourey Sidibe as Cleopatra.
I am ok with either Angelina Jolie or Vanessa Williams playing the role as Cleopatra. They both have that royalty look mixed with snake venom that is perfect for the part.
I get it, they want a hot A-list celebrity to make this movie a huge blockbuster, Liz Taylor made the most famous Cleo after all and no one ever complained about a violet-eyed Cleopatra... so how about Eva Mendez for example...? or Jennifer Lopez (if she could only act!)? I think Angie could do a good job but it's so predictable, so uninteresting!
African American need to do their research! Cleo was not black, she was Greek! She was a member of the Ptolemaic dynasty! They were the royal family which ruled the Ptolemaic Empire in Egypt. They just took the Epytian culture. Also, ppl from Epytian are not black!
I can't believe anybody would raise this as an issue about race. The arguments from Essence and Clutch Mag are silly and petty. There is just this blind parroting that [some] Egyptians were black, so this must be an important race issue of our day! If a role going to a white person multiple times is their main concern, then maybe they'll complain about the role of Freddy Krueger next. Cleopatra was Greek. Look her up in womenoftheancientworld.com. Also, coins from that era show what her profile looked like. She looks more Greek than African. Also, her beauty is disputed, so why not whine for an ugly actress? If you want to be taken seriously, please focus on serious issues. Also, what a callous thing to say: "I don't care how full Angelina Jolie's lips are, how many African children she adopts..." You sound like a horrible person using ugly rhetoric in a weak attempt to make an argument. Do these magazines hire people off the street?
Ya'll are funny! Let's be for real...your arguments are not based on historical or anthropological fact. Egyptians have changed in appearance over the centuries. However, let's not sit here and pretend that the world's first inhabitants were AFRICAN and by that I mean BLACK with traditional African/Black features. Now let's give it credit that Cleopatra was mixed there are biracial actresses all of the time. AND if you want to talk about traditionally white parts given to black actors then let's flip it for this one. This is a traditionally white part let's try an African American. Not to mention I don't feel Angelina Jolie can act unless she's acting a part that requires her to be crazy which is not far from her actual personality and therefore not TRULY acting.
Uh, Cleopatra was Greek, not African by descent. Ptolomeic dynasty anyone? Get an education before yelling about racism.
Wow...Finally an Important story
I am Egyptian, my grandfather was a coptic Christian Egyptian, ask anyone, they are the original Egyptians with Pharoh lineage, I am not exactly an aryan but I am fair skinned and considered to be white/caucasian, my mother and brother have blue eyes so do many in my family, hate to break to you folks, but Egyptians are definitely not black and many look like angelina jolie, unfortunately not as good looking. The only thing wrong with Angelina Jolie playing this role is that she is simply far too good looking to be Cleopatra. Cleopatra was very powerful and also very ugly. It is absurd to think that Egyptians are/were black! What's next, Jesus was black too?
YOU ARE A REAL JOKE. GOOD STORY LINE.
I think people are forgetting Cleopatra was Greek. She was raised in Egypt and ruled there, but was not Egyptian.
The decision should be left to the producers of the film. They are the one who spend the money . Jolie is aninternational celebrity who can bring backloads of money. I dont think colored / white makes sense here....you gottta think who can justify the money spent..
As a History teacher, I am appauled that Jolie is playing the role of a Black woman. Can white people respect the fact that Africans contributed great things to this society and that Black people should play those roles. Another case of white supremacy at its work. Can you imagine Anne Frank being played by a Black 12 year old girl? Emphatically , no!!
I can only hope you never teach my children.
What kind of History do you teach that you understand Cleopatra to be black? That's confusing!
As someone with a history degree....Where did you get your degree and where do you teach? I will NOT be sending my child there.
This post is just scary.
Egyptians are and were more middle eastern or medditerranean, not sub-Saharan African or "Black".
Seriously, Egyptians were not Nubians or sub saharan Africans, and never have been.
Come on people, pick a typical Egyptian looking actress to play Cleopatra, neither typical "black" nor typical "white" but more middle eastern or mediterranean would be the most accurate. How about a Hispanic actress? That would be closer than either White or Black.
Black, White. WHO CARES! As long as it's a good movie, not some of the dreck that Hollywood has been expecting us to pay our hard earned money for.
Oh by the way I'm a person of color.
I think that the role should go to who ever matches her the most. I'm tired of Angelina always playing people of color. Why not just get someone that is of color. It seems like a race thing to me as if black women or just women of color don't deserve to play these parts in movies.
Cleopatra being greek, how about Nia Zarvalos? If the mobs want an African actress, how about Gabby Sidibe?
Backlash by blacks = blacklash. Most people - including whites - are ignorant of the fact that Cleopatra was not a sistah, but blacks have an emotional investment in this myth so they will continnue to believe what they want to believe. Brace yerself.
CLEOPATRA WAS GREEK, NOT AFRICAN!
Angelina is too old to play this part. There are so many other better actresses that could play this part. We are all sick of this over exposed and over rated talentless actress.
Egypt was originally named Kemet which is literally translated as Black Land. Kemet was not originally the land of Arab people as it is today. The great civilization of Kemet was the home to Africans and it is infuriating to see Egyptians of those times portrayed by white and light bronze people. That is a desperate attempt to white wash history. Yes, Cleopatra was the daughter of Pharaoh Ptolemy XII Auletes. But, who was her mother? Cleopatra was born in Alexandria, Egypt and her father had adopted all of the customs of the Egyptians. Why is that? Who was her mother? Cleopatra was an Egyptian woman. She was Greek and African. Period.
The people saying the actress should be black know Cleopatra was Greek, right?
Cleopatra was of Greek ancestry
Based on paitings and portraits of Cleo, I beileve Sandra Bullock would be a better choice. Compare the two, I think you will see some similarity.
Ah yes, the vocal segment of the "African American" community, never letting good old facts get in the way of getting all self-righteous.
I want to know who is teaching the african american community that Africa is made up of all dark skinned folks. Please people research before you make yourselves sound bad.
Here are a few suggestions: Viola Davis, Angela Bassett, Jill Scott, Dana Owens (aka Queen Latifah) or any up and coming Egyptian actress.
First....not to be a downer to those who think they understand history but cleopatra was a greek for crying out loud. Just because someone was in afgrica doesn't make them AFRICAN and African doesn't mean BLACK.
I think people saying Cleopatra has to be African American needs to get their facts correct. If you look at the birth of this controversy it goes back to the African Americans need to challenge the popular misconception that African Americans were by nature inferior. Hence they looked to Egypt, one of the first great civilization and made wild claims that the civilzation was black. Unfortunately, this is based on false premise and it almost equivilant to someone claiming 3000 years from now that the great American civilzation was indeed native american! The truth is the that several dynasties from the middle east including Mesoptamians conquered Egypt and its indeginous community which might as well have been black and started to integrate with them. Hence, the Egyptians society was a multi-cultural society way before the Greeks even made their way to Egypt! So to claim that Cleopatra was a black is misleading! She was probably of a mixed race but if you look at her bust it seems like she has very sharp features something that most African-Americans don't have! Besides if you really want to cast someone according to the race of Cleopatra you need to find someone with a mix of semetic-african-greek heritage i.e an egyptian and hence a brown person. I cannot see Beyonce playing this role can you? And if you go for someone like Hallie Berry then again you have justified the argument that Egyptians were not black because Hallie Berry is a mix between white and black. I personally don't think Elizabeth Taylor fit that role as she was way too caucausian more atune to playing a northern european than southern european and didn't have that air of mystery and exoticness to her. But I believe Angelina Jolie brings that mystery and exoticness and fits the role pretty well! What is the PROBLEM with AFRICAN AMERICANS??? Don't they have something more constructive to do for their community which is facing so much hardship???!!!!
Historically there are indications that the last Cleopatra was a blonde Greek. Personally I don't think Angelina Jolie is that good a choice. Talented yes, pretty no. How about Hallie Berry? Or a Middle Eastern actress or Mediterranean one?
If we know Cleopatra was "Black" for a fact, and we do. A black woman should play that role.
There are enough Egyptian actors and actresses....USE THEM!!! The same was with Prince of Persia...use all middle eastern people!!! Its 2010 and we are still not being fair to other cultures in the melting pot...think about it. Its just rude and a bit disrespectful.
like people that read essence really know or care about history. These are the same people that still uses slavery as a crutch. They should just write about rap,basketball and hair extentions, or maybe that Obama is great.
Cleopatra was the last member of the Ptolemaic dynasty that ruled Egypt, the Hellenistic dynasty which had been founded 300 years before by Ptolemy I Soter, one of the Greek generals in Alexander the Great's army. Her language was Greek, and she was the FIRST of that Greek dynasty who learned Egyptian. Cleopatra was not black.
Beautiful actress, beautiful person, beautiful Cleopatra, YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Brad would be a bonus!
Black people need to actually visit Egypt to know that black people don't populate the area like almond color people do. Just because its Africa does not mean its all black and it hasn't been for centuries. It's a freaking continent with vast diversity.On top of that, when are people going to realize that Cleopatra and her decedents were of Macedonian origin...very white, and kept alive at the throne by inbreeding. Go visit the place people and stop the ignorance among you black folks. -Hispanic adventurer–
I do not care what role this woman plays, I will not spend money on any of her movies. I have never, nor do I now, believe that this woman what she portrays herself to be. I never met her, however, when I look at her pictures, I do not see a goodness. I see something complete different and I do not believe she does what she does out of the goodness of her heart. I don't care if they were white, black, brown or purple, anyone would have been better than Angelina Jolie.
Elizabeth Taylor set a high bar with her protrayl of Cleopatra. The actress playing her must be of strong character and inner strength as well as beautiful. I've seen four films Jolie has starred in and her range as an actress is pretty limited in my opinion. And if you think because Jolie is a name that this alone will be people into the theaters, it will not.
There are plenty of actress to choose from who would fit the bill. My personal choice is a less known name, but I think she is a very good actress, very strong, and an amazing beauty - Moreena Baccrin.
I don't care what role this woman plays, I will not spend money on any of her movies. I have never, nor do I now, believed this woman does what she does out of the goodness of her heart. I've never met her but from what she gives off in her photos is someone who is not what they portray. I don't care if they are white, black, brown or purple, anyone would have been better than Angelina Jolie.
Cleopatra was a descendant of Ptolmet who was a Macedonia generasl that served with Alexander the Great.
If you don't like the choice, try and become a casting director and fix all these great social ills. Shesh, it's a MOVIE!
Cleopatra was Greek. Part of the Ptolemic Dynasty
Mike @ 2:38 pm... except all those characters are fictious and could be any "color" the author/illustrator wanted them to be (I mean, there aren't really giant green people like The Hulk). Cleopatra was a real woman, with a real race/color, and that doesn't change just because people decide they want her to look different.
Cleopatra was of Greek decent, yes she ended up living in Egypt which is located on the continent of Africa, but some Egyptians consider themselves African, some Arabic, some Caucasian (in today's world). I think the only people who can truly say what Egyptians considered themselves back in Cleopatra's day were those who lived then. I hate Angelina Jolie, I don't think she's a good actress, this is just my opinion. I think they could find someone better to play the role. There are plenty of exotic looking actresses out there, why pick the most overrated, anorexic woman in Hollywood?
Cleopatra was a member of the Ptolemy family and was Greek, therefore, white.
This is stupid. Cleo was Greek. Please learn the facts before making comments. I would also point out that companies which make films are companies that are in the business of making money. Therefore, they are going to cast whoever gives them the greatest chance of profit. Movies are about entertainment not historical accuracy.
All the best,
I would love to see Halle Berry or Queen Latifa play this role because they are very good actresses. They are both marketable and would do a great job; and not because they are both black. As stated in a previous post, why should it be about race? It should be about who will bring in the largest crowd. Personally, I would not go see a film with Pitt or Jolie, because I have not gotten over how they both treated my girl Jennifer. The final decision will be made by the author, so why are we getting all bent out of shape over a role and who plays it. You will either see the movie or you will not.
I absoutely love the idea of Angelina playing Cleopatra! If these stupid people would read World History they would find that Cleopatra was actually a Greek. She was not from Egypt. Her father conquered Egypt to become King. Ok losers pick your grade school world history book and READ!
Why all the fuss. Angelina fits the role of Cleopatra to a T: she's beautiful, she's a terrific actress and she's of mixed ancestry. So, quit your whining, already.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/also_in_the_news/7945333.stm
I guess most of us have seen the real Cleopatra in person to know exactly what she looks like. Just because some book said she had Blue eyes, Blonde hair and fair skin doesn't mean it's correct.
If Hollywood is going to make a movie about a black queen then they should put a black actress in to play that part, there's a lot of beautiful black actresses out there they could of picked other than, a caucasian pale skinned woman, so what if she adopts black children.That role should be played strictly by a black goddess not some one who don't even have a culture of that status, trying to be something she could never be. What else Hollywood is going to lie about.
This is hilarious. Why does everyone have to be black, or, excuse me, "of color." Even when 2,000 years worth of historical records firmly establish that this is not true? Cleopatra was a nice Macedonian woman, and for goodness sake, even the name "Cleopatra" is about as Macedonian as they come! It amazes me that any press outlet is even giving these claims that she should have been played by a black woman any credence at all! Ethnically speaking, Angelina Jolie is very capable of performing this role and in fact has portrayed another woman from that region – she previously played Olympius, Alexander the Great's mother (who was from Epirus, but close enough).
Guys, pick your battles. This was not a wise choice for controversy – because there is no controversy!
Wow I cant beleive I read most of these post... Just as most history has been re-written to suit there beleifs why is this any diffrent..just let it go and wait for this movie to hit the bigscreen for a week then off to DVD...lol
This is a response to Ralph. "Cleo" was African, Egypt is in Africa!! The sorry American public school system always try to take Egypt out ofAfrica. Africans come in ALL shades, not just 'tar'. Also the hairstyle you see depicted in all the artifacts is called conrows, braids, etc. Something Bo Derek borrowed from Black women !!!
Who should play the Klingon on the next Star Trek??
Although Cleopatra's paternity is historically assured, her mother's race can not be verified. Her mother is generally believed to be Cleopatra V Tryphaena of Egypt, the sister or cousin and wife of Ptolemy XII, which would make her Macedonian as well. To state that Cleopatra's mother was black is simply a false (politically biased) assumption. The weight of evidence says Cleopatra was white. But then, Hollywood has a well-established practice of sodomizing history for the sake of political correctness. In the end, though.......they will go with the biggest box office draw. I would look forward to seeing Angelina in the role (as long as Brad doesn't play Mark Antony!)
Once again, its turned into a Black/White thing by someone black.
Cleopatra was Greek, anyone with an education knows this.
i dont have a problem with angelina playing cleo but halle berry would of been preferrable because egypt is in africa. but angelina is a good person and a great actress im sure she would make a great cleo... o yea cleo never had blue eyes lol o well
If a black man can play a Norse God in Thor...then anyone can play anyone in a movie.
actually, there were 7 Cleopatras. The most famous was the 7th.
I think Angelina is an excellent choice for Cleopatra. She has a beautiful, exotic look and is a wonderful actor! It's racist to say she can't play the role because of her heritage.
I think she'd probably do fine. I think Halle Berry would be great for the part though. =D
Having spent a bit of time in that part of the world and interacted with more than a few Egyptians, I have to say that I met more WHITE looking Egyptians than those that looked like Black Africans–come to think of it I never really ran into any that were that dark. The darkest Egyptians I met looked more Arab or Hispanic in their skin tone. I think Angelina Jolie would make for a great Cleopatra... 🙂
CandyLand was going on about type-casting earlier but I have a questions about that. If it's so bad and you are so upset that the only jobs in Hollywood for blacks is playing the bad parts, why do these actors and actoresses accept the parts if they are so bad? I can tell you why. It's a job. I really don't like it when people from the South are played as dumb rednecks from Deliverance. I guess if you are from the South you have the exact same accent no matter what state you are from. I'm from Tennessee and my accent is different than someone from North Carolina, Georgia or Alabama.
We all have been type casted at some point. Hollywood is going to give the role to the person that will bring in the most money. I like historically accurate movies. So, if anything they should have choose an Egyptian or Greek.
Cleopatra was quite the inbred queen. Her skin was not white, but she certainly was not “black.”
The facts that support the argument that she was black has too many flaws and is a glamorized claim.
That she was not black is supported by incomplete but historically consistent evidence.
Look at her she is going to have to gain some weight and grow some curvs like real women had during that erra. Bad choice even beyond her color.
Cleopatra was neither black nor ethnically Egyptian. Cleopatra is a Macedonian name and her family was so inbred it is unlikely she would have looked like anything but a Macedonian, similar to Alexander the Great.
There were "black" African rulers of eygpt at one time but Cleopatra was not one of them ... she was Greek.
I think Angelina is perfect for the part, and would love to see Brad play Mark Anthony!!!
Everything is about money at the end of the day, "Stacy Schiff, author of the forthcoming “Cleopatra: A Life,” reportedly endorsed Jolie to play the role " for the writer to be endorsing an specific actor/actress is because they know that particular person will bring many people to see the movie, that means a bigger cut for the writter and more than their 15 minutes of fame, by the way, not in favor of any race, Alicia Keys looks more like Cleo than Angelina.
I find the debate about Cleopatra's ethnicity and subsequent visual appearance to be fascinating. But for me, you don't even have to go that far with this issue...Jolie isn't a good actor, nor is Pitt. They're popular because of their looks, but not known for their acting ability.
Give the parts to people who can act. It's going to be hard, though. So many in Hollywood are there to be eye candy, and not because of their talent.
Predicition, only their die hard fans will show up and it will stink.
This is a headline?
Who fricken cares? It's a movie! It's entertainment. Nick Steele was supposed to white but was played by Sam Jackson. No one had a problem with that.
This question suffers from serious presentism. "Black" is a category that has shifted over time, and means different things in different times and places. Prior to WWI, "Macedonians of Greek descent" would not have been considered "white" by many Americans. After WWII, in contrast, many people in the U.S. would have considered Macedonians–like Italians, Jews, and other "white ethnics"–to be "white."
At the time, Cleopatra's skin color would not have been a salient issue, though her lineage would have been considered important. Still, regardless of the particular shade of her skin, the social categories of "blackness" and "whiteness" had not yet been invented.
As I recall, Cleopatra was Macedonian (Greek)....so maybe it's LESS historically accurate to have her played by a woman of color?
Cleopatra is of Greek decent as is Jennifer Aniston (her father is Greek). Girlfriend just can't catch a break 🙂
Cleopatra was from the Macedonian/Greek Ptolemaic Dynasty. She was not African, nor was she black (as most aboriginal people of Egypt were not black, but olive skinned). As a woman of Greek/ Macedonian ancestory myself, I'm sick and tired of the African American community hijacking this woman of my heritage in the name of making themselves feel good and political correctness. Get your own (real) heroes and heroines. I will say this, however, Angelina Jolie is a terrible choice to play Cleopatra. How about doing an authentic representation of her for once and using someone with a Greek/Macednonian background or who at least looks like they have that ancestory? Enough is enough already.
Explain to me why the actress has to be a woman of color? She was GREEK not african american.....just give them something to say WOES ME I'M GETTING THE SHAFT. I wish they would all go back to africa.
I am so sick and tired of African Americans thinking that because Egypt was once a great civilization that that proves they are all of some sort of royalty. I hate hearing about "African Queens." Egyptians are only African because of location. They are not African, they are Arab. I hate to sound racist, but come on 99.9% of Africans have absolutely nothing outside of living in poverty. And yes, I have spent a great deal of time in many countries throughout Africa.
Forget her color. Cleopatra was 18 when she became co-ruler with her brother and 21 when she met Caesar. If Angelina can pull it off at age 35, then we're talking Oscar!
Egyptians are typically olive skinned with similar features of Caucasians. They are definitely NOT black even thought Egypt is part of Africa. To believe all peoples and countries on the continent of Africa are black is just pure ignorance. Having said that, I do wish they would have cast a Middle Eastern actress for the role. I like Ms. Jolie but would prefer to see Cleopatra portrayed by someone of her own lineage.
is not that she has to be black, white or naturally bronzed (personally i would go with natural bronze), but it is actually a matter of weather she has the body to pull this off. cleopatra was either a middle eastern, north african, mediterranean or egyptian woman. what ever! she was exotic. she was curvy and beautiful, with a great looking body. angelina jolie has none of the above. she has big lips. that's it! she doesn't have a shaped body, she's not beautiful, and specially not curvy. that is what this is all about. there are plenty of actresses out there that have this description and are also very talented actresses.
wai, Cleopatra was neither pretty nor curvy, history tells us that she was a homely looking woman and had a little meat on her. The reason that she is portrayed so beautiful in movies is that no one wants to believe that a homely woman could attract so many men, so many in fact that she brought to end her own kingdom.
That biotch who wrote that article of Essence.com is a racist and a moron.
Wow, CNN, you need to hire some new web designers. I forgot to type in full email, it errored, i went back and entered email then it rejected my comment as duplicate comment...Perhaps it should have only entered the comment into the db after if validated the fields? hmmmm?
Anyhow. What happened to her. She used to be really beautiful, now she is just sick looking. I think she would be great playing Cleopatra in "The Mummy IV, Cleopatra" She wouldn't need makeup to do the bones and skin scenes...
She's perfect. there is no evidence that Cleopatra was black. Jolie is as stunning as what I imagine Cleopatra was.
Wow, what happened to her? She used to look great...Now she looks sick. Perhaps if she stared as Cleopatra in a Mummy IV movie (you know, the skelly version) then I'd say go for it! Please eat some food!
Rosario Dawson. That is all I have to say.
She is way overexposed in hollywood already. no one will see her as a character such as Cleopatra, rather we will only see Angelina up there, that will ruin the film. Same goes for if Pitt is in it. They have both lost their luster and magic. We know too much about their real lives.
Angelina would be great as Cleopatra, particularly if she played it without any clothes. Nobody would care what color she was.
Angelina the Tomb Raider as Cleo is no more ridiculous than Colin as Alexander. Angelina played the mother in that movie & in Beowulf, so it's not like she doesn't have "historical" film experience. I haven't really liked her since Hackers.
Get Halle Berry, even better looking that Angelina.
Skip all the personal attacks on Angelina and consider the "Very Best" choice would be Halle Berry! There are so many actress skills and sensual qualities she has that are real; easily makes her the perfect fit for the role...
OK , what about Zoe Saldana? Ok she was technically Greek . The last time I checked Greeks GET brown , why cant we have a native grecian play the role? I think African Americans frustration is that women of color ANY color are not considered for the role.What about a Cambodian..they get brown too. The point is Yes Cleo was Greek (and maybe a little vindictive) living in Egypt ..She had to be Brown one way OR ANOTHER
Why can't Angelina play a Greek? This black racism has been a plague my whole life. I wish blacks could see other people as people and not let their lives be ruled by things that happened generations ago.
Many of the comments here are valid on all sides. The facts, though do remain the same. Cleopatra was of Greek descent and though I understand the frustration of those who would rather see a more-darkskinned (naturally) in this role, maybe this film is not so much the one to be so riled up about as Hollywood historically till this day casts in what can easily be construed as a racist mannor. That said I think that Angelina Jolie is a great actress and will not disappoint in this role.
She would make the perfect Cleopatra. And honestly, I don't remember her being black in any of my history books. She was always more of a tan color.
Angelina Jolie is not Egyptian, nor does she look Egyptian. She does not have the features of an Egyptian woman. This is just not a credible casting and should reflect so in box office receipts. I will definitely not waste my money on this shim-sham of a production.
Stacy Schiff is bent on having a white-skinned woman in this role not because it's the "perfect pick", but because she believes that the movie will make more money with a white woman playing Cleopatra, irrespective of the FACT that Cleopatra was an AFRICAN and a WOMAN OF COLOR. Maybe if Stacy writes a book on Harriet Tubman, she can cast Helen Mirren as Harriet Tubman, she would be the "perfect pick".
Underneath all of this is still racism and Schiff not wanting this movie to be labeled by white people as a "Black Movie". If there is a lead black (or non-white person of color) actor or actress in a movie white society always automatically refers to it as a Black Movie (or whatever ethnicity the person is), not just a movie.
Schiff should have at least cast an AFRICAN from EGYPT.
Put aside your anger and crack open a history book, Laila. Cleopatra was one in a long line of Ptolemaic rulers who ruled Egypt after Alexander the Great invaded. Cleopatra was not of African blood as some of the pharoahs possibly were previously. She was Egyptian-born but of Greek descent.
Why not. John Wayne played Genghis Khan once. Not very convincing, but he played the role. Just keep repeating,
"It's only a movie, It's only a movie".
Here is how I see it...if she was Greek then let a Greek play her...I just would like to see it played as true to form as possible. Yep...I'm African American and I love good well researched, and true to form movies. Get it right Hollywood!
Amen!
Angelina Jolia is the actress of "choice' for this role? Doesn't anyone remember her horrendous accent when she played Colin Farrell's mother in Alexander? YIKES! Give the role to someone who can act..........
Now this is a legitimate objection.
I agree with Jim. Angelia really sucked in that role. This is why I love Mel Gibson as a Director. He uses people who we never heard of to play roles and as you can see it did not hurt the boxd office. We need to see new blood. Please find a greek woman and give her a chance. I bet this will break the box office. You will notice that people will be sick and tired of the same old actors and they will demand new actors from there on. BRING IN NEW ACTORS!
If this is what it takes to get Fox to make a decent Blu-ray transfer (from 70mm source material) of the 1963 CLEOPATRA, I don't care if they cast Jackie Chan as the Oriental Queen of the Nile..
Funny. Everyone here is trying to play "history expert" yet none of you know what you're talking about.
This is like saying a Russian Czar should be played by a Chinese guy. Africa is a continent, not a country or culture, and certainly not exclusive to a given race.
Angelina Jolie = tramp, Cleopatra = tramp, same difference.
OMG–enough with the race-baiting BS, already! Cleopatra was of Greek descent. She was not black, just like many South Africans (that's a country on the continent of Africa, for those who don't know) are not black. If anything, Cleopatra was olive-skinned. So get the eff over it!
Idris Elba, an African American, is playing the Norse God Heimdall in the new film Thor. Heimdall was known to the Norse as the "whitest god", so you can see the irony there. Idris Elba insinuated that white people who were against him playing the whitest of white gods were racist. Meanwhile, a white person can't play Cleopatra who wasn't even black.
yes, her father is of greek/macedonian decent,, but cleopatra's mother has never been truly confirmed. as sited by the international scientific community, cleopatra is more-likely-than-not a bi-racial woman! bi-racial women come in many hues from the lightest of light to the darkest of dark. i'm just tired of seeing angelina jolie portray women of color. this would not be the first time and i'm sure that there are a number of actresses who could deliver a more amazing performance as cleopatra. and no, i do not mean halle berry!!!
yes you are right that her mother is up for dispute, however if she was born the daughter of a concubine and of mixed race she would not have been permitted to become queen. Her first two husbands were her brothers and this also would not have been permitted had she not had a pure bloodline.
Cleopatra was GREEK!!! NOT Egyptian. Essence, you're a bunch of idiots. Do some research first.
This is how you shoot the nose off the Sphinx in 2010.
For years the whites have stolen arts and treasure from Egypt. Now with their stolen knowledge the whites want to claim the history of the Egyptians as their own.
Egyptian archeologists help other archaeologists from around the world excavate in Egypt, so blame the Egyptians. I went to school with two Egyptians, Cleo and Sylvana. Both WHITE. George Noory, an American radio broadcaster of Egyptian descent. WHITE. Blacks have become the most racist people on the planet, and all the rest of us–olive, white, yellow, red–are sick of it!
Cleopatra was a macedonian white woman. Get over it.
It depends on what history book you are reading. If you read a white history book, she was white. If you read a black history book, she was black. If you read an Egyptian history book, she was an Egyptian. If you read a Greek history book she was Greek. . . and so on and on and on. Who cares!
How important is this...I mean really? Would that there was this much dialogue into how to plug the oil spill.
Cleopatra was GREEK, not Egyptian. She was the granddaughter of Ptolemy, Alexander the Great's general. For really bad casting, try wild-eyed scrawny Colin Farrel as Alexander the Great.
Sam Jackson played "Nick Fury" who is drawn as "white" in ironman.
Let it go...
When you stop worrying about "color" your issues will go away.
Go right ahead and cast Jolie as Cleopatra. You are making the film – you are funding the film, you absolutely have that right. I will exercise the one absolute right that I possess. The right to keep my money in my wallet.
Cleopatra's ancestral lineage was out of Ptolemy. She was a Hellenistic Greek by lineage. That lineage was maintained when she married her brothers. Mark Atoney was a Roman. She would not have been a "nubian" (the term used by the Hellenistic culture of the time. It's not a "racist" comment.) She would have been Olive skinned at the darkest. More likely she was "white". Sorry to bust anyone's bubble but thems the facts.
Why all the BS about Cleopatra being played by a white woman? I think there should be concern for Angelina with any role thrown at her. She is a terrible actress. Anything I have seen her in was crap. Any movie she will make cast as Cleopatra will be crap. She is so bad, I will not watch anything she is in. Completely unwatchable.
Cleopatra was Greek!! Read a book people!
I for one will NOT be watching this movie. Not because of the color of the skin of the person, but because I don't care for Angelina Jolie, I do NOT think she is a wonderful actress. She is a wonderful humanitarian, but that is it.
its a great day for white folks of all races
EGYPTIANS WEREN'T BLACK, YOU MAGAZINE IDIOTS! You have some now because of a greater movement of peoples in the last century, but Egyptians of the Pharaohs' era were of middle eastern descent!!! You antagonizers believe there could only be one race in Africa. Sorry to break it to you, but there were MORE! Long before Cleopatra there were also Greeks in Africa. North Africa was NOT YOUR HOMELAND! That was West, Central and South Africa, NOT NORTH. North Africa was part of the Mediterranean world and was inhabited by such people. GET OVER YOURSELVES!!!
We already know she doesn't mind stealing someone's husband. She's perfect.
Well looking back at a lot of warmer climates with people ranging in skin color from very light to very dark. It would be assumed that be it that Cleopatra were of Macedonian decent and her mother is actually unknown but assumed to be Egyptian. Which would mean that she would be mixed with very light skin and a what now would be Arab colored skin. Which ranges from light to dark? What causes this? Usually people who are very wealthy don't have to work outside and don't have much exposure to the sun as the poorer people who work all day in the sweltering sun and heat. Be it that Cleopatra was of a wealth family, herself being a Pharoah. I'm sure that she was probably very light skinned. This country is very caught up on race. Ben Kingsley by the way is half Indian and a damn fine actor. He did a remarkable job playing Ghandi. The real outrage here shouldn't be that Jolie is too white to play this character. It should be that she's not good enough of an actress to play such a remarkable historical figure. It's insulting to women that one of historys most reveared female leaders is only acknowledged for her beauty. That is the only reason they're picking Jolie is because of her striking good looks. I wish they would have an actress with some real talent give this incredible figure in history some justice. Hollywood is a joke.
Cleopatra was a member of the Ptolemy dynasty who were Greek speaking because they came from Macedonia. They were definitely not people of color in the sense that it is being refered to here. In this case Angelina Jolie would actually be a perfect choice.
Cleopatra was not BLACK! Some "people" need a better education in history. She had light skin color and was beloved by many people in Edgypt for that reason. It has been written, that she even tried to enhance her skin to be even lighter for the reason that light skin in that part of the world was rare and desired by both women and men.
If you anyone noticed Egypt is in Africa a land that originally was inhabited by people of a darker hue, it wasn't until the mixing and conquering by the Arabian peninsula that Musilums of a lighter hue took over. They forced many of the Egyptians to convert to Islam or die. Also the original name for Egypt is Kemet, the Western world changed the name.
Cleopatra was a great grand daughter of Ptolemy who was Greek, and one of Alexander the Great's generals. When Alexander the Great died, his empire split into different large territories, with each of his generals as the ruler of those territories. Ptolemy, was one of his generals, who took over Egypt and surrounding areas. People of Greek decent all ran Ptolemy's court, and that was the ruling class. Much like how South Africa used to be ran by people of European decent. The Greeks only wed each other, and didn't mingle with the indigenous peoples, therefore Cleopatra would have been white.
That's your history lesson for today. Sheba would have been black though, and she needs a movie about her.
I think they should get "Precious" AKA Gabby Sidibe.
Cleopatra was Macedonian GREEK ppl, a direct line desendant of Alexander the Great, therefor WHITE SKINNED, BLUE EYED AND BLOND HAIRED! She was noted in ancient writings that she often wore black wigs to appear closer to the native Egyptian people. What morons to think Cleo should be played by a woman of color.
Cleopatra was NOT a direct decedent of Alexander the Great, Cleopatra's father Auletes was a direct descendant of Alexander the Great's general, Ptolemy I not Alexander himself. However the remainder of your statement is historically correct.
I am fine with her playing the part as long as Angela Bassett can play Queen Victoria or Martha Washington!Yeah right!
I for one can't wait to see Angelina Jolie in makeup playing an Egyption Queen....YUMMY....
I do not think Miss Jolie should play the part...there must be better actresses that could be considered.
Cleopatra was Greek.. and most likely from Macedonia since she came from the Ptolemy line of rulers. he was a General serving under Alexander the Great. Coming from Macedonia she could have been white as snow. Give it up people. I think Angelina would make a great Cleo.
Cleopatra was black. Her father was Greek Macedonian general, Ptolemy, but her mother was black. She was a black woman, and the role should be played by a black woman.
Hey! Jennifer Aniston is of Greek descent and would be appropriate for the role. I'd much rather look at her on screen than Jolie.
Umm. Cleopatra was a GREEK woman who was queen/pharaoh of Egypt when is was under Greek rule. She was most definitely NOT black, or even "bronze" as an Egyptian might be.
Wow... just wow.
Peronally I don't care what her color she was or her nationally. The history books say Greek . Angelia Jolie should not even be considered for the role. There are many more actrees that are fare more beautiful, that could do a better job. No one will ever compare to Elizabeth and Richard!
I vote for Jessica Alba. Being of Hispanic background, she has the olive skin that would be more natural for that role, and her beauty is more natural (less "bolt on") than Angelina's.
Get me a Polaroid of Cleo and I will answer your question. Unless you own stock in the film company then the photo does not matter. Tell you what. Let's make it even. Oprah can play Eleanor Roosevelt when they remake "Sunrise at Campabello."
RuPaul
How about going to Egypt and discovering the talent over there. I am a huge fan of Angelina Jolie but for this, lets try getting an unknown actress...just a thought
I personally do not think Angelina will make a great Cleopatra, simply because she is not a good actress, which is why I do not go to any of her movies. And, therefore, will not be going to this new movie.
God what is wrong with people? Has anyone been to North Africa????!!! They are not black but all shades of brown. There was also a lot of intermingling of races back then so I doubt Cleopatra looked like Oprah Winfrey! Angelina Jolie fits that very exotic, mysterious personality to perfection. If people want to be really political correct why not have Whoopi Goldberg! Come on people get a life......
All this hooplah about nothing. If they want to ignore the fact that there have been roles of whites played by black actors and raise hypocritical flags on this, I say have fun – while pointing at Morgan Freeman's excellent job in Shawshank Redemption playing Red, who was, if you've read the story, a redheaded white man. God bless hypocrisy.
Cleopatra was Greek.
Cleopatra was part Greek, her name is of Greek origin, she prided herself on being related to Alexander the Great (also Greek from Macedonia), & coins from her era have been found with her image on it looking quite Greek. History should not be distorted just to make a movie succesful.
all who are complaining are morons. its just a movie. also, ben kingsley's dad was Indian you dumb a@$ robert
People get a life.
Who GAF!!! She's Hot!!
Cleo VII was from a Macedonian family. But I see no reason a black actress couldn't play Cleo if she's got Cleo's mix of brains, ability, and charm. I rather would like to see all actors taking on all roles...Why can't Morgan Freeman play Abe Lincoln or Robert E. Lee if he does the role well? Though not Brad Pitt as Martin Luther King, please. The real question is, is Ms. Jolie good enough to play Cleo well. Lindsay Duncan(? I think the name was) was a great Cleo in "Rome" and I'd like to see an actress who can do at least as well.
I have an idea, let's eliminate all the problems and have the role played by a man. How about Lenny Kravitz, his father was Jewish and his mother black. That will solve everything.
Note that Gandhi was played by an actor of Indian and British blood. Ben Kingsley was born Krishna Pandit Bhanji.
I don't think the nay-sayers in this article realize it would be historically inaccurate for Cleo to be black. plain and simple.
AND if it has not been mentioned, the people generally who live in Greece today are not the people who lived in Greece at that time. It has been explained in a earlier post that they were Aryan/Hebrew types or Caucasians who migrated over the Caucasus mountains and/or hebrew/phonecian who settled along the shores of the Med.
Who of course settled the Iberian peninsula and Hibernia which is Ireland and Britain the Gaels. Not to mention those tribes who migrated overland and became known as the Anglo-Saxons where our English came from (angleish), the Franks, Saxons (Isaccs's sons) Jutes Goths Normans, Vikings etc.
History is so colorful if only it was taught.
People, you should calm down.
In order to bring peace to this discussion and be fair to all ethnicities that might feel offended by Jolie's choice, the producers decided to give Cesar and Marc-Anthony roles to african american actors Will Smith and Denzel Washington.
If this discussion was about a black actress who should not be playing a part, it would be called "racist."
Anyone who knows history will think Jolie will be a perfect choice for this role. Stop making so much about color and focus on quality.
Halle Berry – covers all complexion questions. And she plays "intelligent" excellently. jmo
Halle Berry is not a great actress, she just got lucky picking a roll that got the viewers' stomachs twisted in a knot. I call that great screenplay writing. And if you're going by historical reference Halle would still be WRONG for the part because she's black and Cleopatra was not.
You know who I'd pay money to see in the role? Tori Spelling!
🙂
she would turn over in her grave. This women IS NOT PRETTY!
OMG, why are people so into this story? No wonder our country keep going backwards. We invest most of our quality time in nonsense like this. WHO CARES???? WHY ARE PEOPLE SO ANGRY???? Most of the angry comments are uncalled for, its Hollywood and all that matters to them is money. So move on and let them have a go at it. Its your money they look forward to at the end of the day. So if you don't like the idea, just don't go see it when it comes out. Keep your dollars. Hope we all have a great weekend. Life is too short to waste on issues like this.
Roberto – you are incorrect about Slavs and slavery under the Romans. Anyone, any ethnic/racial/religious background were slaves, it had nothing to do with who they were. In any case the Slavs did not enter European history until the early 6th century when they were under the power of the Avars, a Turkic empire who fought against the Eastern Roman Empire. Actually many slaves were from all over the polyglot empire, and many of them reached very high rank, especially the Greeks who as literate, intelligent talented administrators and business men worked for the Emperor and his officials, or managed the business of their masters.
Hasn't america had "enough" of Angelina?? It's really time to move on. This movie requires an olive skinned, semitic woman to play this role. Pahhease!!!
People sure don't know their history. While Cleopatra was an Egyptian queen, she was actually full-blooded Greek. Hardly a woman of color.
Its ALWAYS about color with the "people of color". PLEASE....get over yourselves.
Come on we let that loser Colin Farrel play Alexander the Great.
The real Cleopatra was Macedonian. Would we also like to see Alexander the Great played by a black man?
Please let caucasoid (whites) have Cleopatra, for now
"History as we know it was written by caucasoid people for caucasoid people only and they believe the lies handed down to them." They won the wars and their pens wrote the history that strecthes form Oxford to Cambridge to Harvard to Yale in the books they hold as truths. And these lies are engrained as the preminent truth and have been for hundreds of years. Caucasoid people depised black Africans since ancient times, so why would the Romans and Greeks attribute anything of note to them. Maybe now with DNA and genomes truths will emerge, but it will take a long time for whites to fully accept that their ancestor cheated history with the pen and claimed credit for things that they did not achieve and people who they were not. Books are powerful tools with content that few endeavor to dispute, "Cortez, COLUMBUS, ALEXANDER the great and NAPOLEON–thumbs down."
Don't these idiots know, that she was Greek, and was probably a blonde? I'm all for black power, and blacks feeling good about about themselves, but lets not rewriter history, ok?
To those of you who continuously use phrases like "black people need to stop..." or "blacks are trying to...." have basically decided that because a few Black people don't like a film then all black people feel this way. This may come as a surprise to you but I am Black and I love Angelina Jolie. I think she'll do a great job. I want to leave this little list for those of you who believe all blacks share one common opinion.
1) Not all black people support or even like Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson
2) Not all black people think OJ Simpson was innocent
3) Not all black people sit around blaming White people for the ills of the world.
4) Most importantly: Not all black people like rap music!
If you actually took the time to get to know a black person as an individual(instead of relying on music videos to educate you), then you may find out you have a lot more in common than you think.
The African-American folks who are making so much noise about Cleopatra's skin color and race, would do well to read history. Cleopatra was a GREEk-MACEDONIAN!!! She WAS NOT A BLACK AFRICAN!!!!! Nor was she an ARAB!!! Her father was a general in Alexander the Great's army; and he marrried a Greek Macedonian woman, Cleo's mother. The coins thfrom that period that depict her profile confirm this.
Yes, Jolie would be perfiect! Do you remember she played the murdered journalist Pearl's wife? She painted her skin and had a small Afro. Pearl's wife is French/Afro-Cuban. I read no comments from Blacks regarding this role.
The sad fact is it doesn't matter what Cleopatra truly looked like, who her parents were, or what country she originally came from. Hollywood producers only see one color GREEN. They know people will flock to the theater to see Jolie. Case Closed. No one producing this film cares one iota of being historically correct. They ONLY care about filling theater seats and Jolie is sure to deliver.
I think that some black people think that just because she was born in Egypt she was black no she was not black she is believed to be of Macedonian decent and they are not black even though Egyptians of that time were.
Oh what the hell, give the role to Oprah. Who gives a damn, as long as the story is correct. Let's hear the truth for a change. Why does everything have to become a racial issue when someone considers a white person for a lead role. If Oprah plays the lead, I know that I will not go see the film.
Unfortunately for the imbecils at this site, who proclaim with no doubt that Cleopatra was not African know nothing about her mother. Therefore how such a claim can be made is ignorant. IBut thats right Anwar Sadat was not African because his mother was Turkish!
I heard Cleopatra was greek. That she should be portrayed by an "actress of color"–meaning black–is racist. Face the fact that white is a color too.
i think Angelina Jolie is perfect for cleopatra. and brad pitt as marc antony, why not? seems interesting. i say angelina jolie IS CLEOPATRA.
Those claiming Cleopatra must have been half Black because her sister was are actually displaying their own ignorance. There is no actual proof that the skeleton from the Ephesus is tomb is in fact Arsinoe IV and even if it was, it is well known that Arsinoe was Cleopatra's half sister.
This is absurd! Cleopatra was niether northern European nor Sub-Saharan African. She was semetic with varying phenotype. Unfortunately Hollywood continues to portray Northern Africans, in particular Egyptians as Northern Europeans with english accents. Halle Berry would be a perfect fit. Hey maybe someting more novel find an Egyptian actress. But please no more face painted Othellos!!!!
And Essence; you should be glad she's not African; what a horrid woman! There's already enough negative thoughts and portrayals out there about African Americans in society we fight each day. Shhh!!! Why would you claim her of all people? Someone needs to do a movie on Lena Horne; now that would be positive and there are plenty of great Afican American actresses who would do a good job portraying her and her accomplishments. Essence don't waste your time. Move on to more positive role models; save face on this one.
Wow, this is so dumb. For one she wasn't black, but that doesn't matter. You could have a woman of asian decent play her for all I care. The reason they picked a white women is probably because the majority of people who are likely to see this movie are more comfortable with a white cleopatra. Just like most people are more comfortable with the image of a white Jesus. When in reality, if you saw jesus today on your 747 from NYC to LA you would be watching him like a hawk. The man was arab, I'm white and I'll admit that with no issue. Who cares!!! Honestly, it seems like "culture" in modern days does nothing but breed hate in people. I prefer to default to our lowest common denominator, that is that we're all human. People invest too much into color and culture. It's great you know where you came from, but where are you going? Becasue distinction breeds jealousy, and jealousy breeds hate, and hate breeds genocide. We've all seen that doesn't work, so everybody just give it a rest and admit that these differences we create between each other really don't matter in any useful scope of reality.
I beleive she was of macedonian decent as the ptolemy took power in egypt after alexander the great died, so angelina jolie would make sense exept i dont care for her as a actress, so african americans should get mad at something that matters instead whose playing cleopatra who was of macedonian decent, last time I checked macedonian people are white, not that it matters or anything
I want to pay to see Angelina play Cleopatra. Not Queen Latifah or Whoopee Glodberg. Please. Keep box office sales in mind when making inaccurate allegations about enthnicity. Looks sell box office receipts, not appeasement casting.
i think Angie she would make a great Cleopatra. Liz Taylor did a great job, and she's white. They could use Lena Horne's left over make up. Oh, she has a black kid too, does that help.
Please, please, please, ANYBODY but *Brangelina*!!!! Those two have become even more nauseating than *Bennifer" or "TomKat* ... They've had more than their fair share of fame, money and tabloid magazine coverage over the years. Enough with the "Hollywood royalty", already!!! How about some new blood for a change?
Well after looking at some facts online she seems to be of European Decent, unless her mom slept with someone of African decent.
Cleopatra was no beauty queen. She had a huge shnozola, crossed eyes, and a mustache. In spite of all that, she was a carpenters dream: flat as a board and easy to nail.
Why would ANYONE want to lay claim to such a horrid woman who murdered?
She ALREADY PLAYED A BLACK WOMEN, DANIEL PEARL'S WIFE. Look it up. True, Egyptians come in many colors and that is why it is time for a women of color, not necessary a black woman, (even though that would be fitting) but someone who other can relate. Africa has less than 2% of the population of whites. Her mother was an AFRICAN of Color: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/also_in_the_news/7945333.stm
DO NOT GET MAD WHEN BEYONCE PLAYS WONDER WOMEN – I am so sure we will here it then
Lets take it a step further... if they do the film, there should be a law making them film it in its orginallanguage... make it illegal to film cleopatra in english..... also many of the egytians were smaller in stature than people today so tall actrices should not be allowed to play cleopatra.
Definitely not A.J. her rep is scarred from over use of tabloids. her botox and age is crashing together, getting uglier with age. She has pale white skin, and is a FAR CRY from Egyptian. Yet she looks more Egyptian than a black woman would, sigh, what is up with this race card. Wet her lips and stick her on the window.
Excuse me, but the last time i checked Egypt was in Africa, WOW, GET A MAP!
I am a huge fan of hers, but honestly i don't think she should play the role because of this, i agree, it should be someone of African decent.
Back when Liz Taylor played it, it was just because of the time, and that people were so ill informed about everything. To have this in today's society where everyone has information at the tip of their fingers and are a lot wiser than back then would be a total slap in the face to have her play this role, and i do think it would be a flop because of this fact.
The more i read; my goodness; why would anyone want to lay claim to Cleo; that's black, white, greek or whatever. That women was horrible. So, people what are you really trying to say about your race? Get a life; Cleo's life is over!!!!!!
I personally don't care about the color of skin of who is playing Cleopatra;I just wouldn't go see
any movie starring Angelina Jolie.
Thank you IACTUALLYREAD. It took some time, but I finally found a post (yours) that was based on intellect versus personal racist views based on the demographics of today. Although I'm not sure what the past Egyptians looked like, I'm sure it wasn't like they look today. Our history books have so many people left out of them, and so many others modified to the writers liking, (I.E. Columbus) they can hardly be called true history books. The only true history books that actually are all inclusive, can only be found at the collegiate level, which most on this blog, after reading their entries, have not read. I think if they want a true depiction of Cleopatra, Angelina is not the right choice.
It's not a debate as to whether or not Cleopatra is African... I believe people are missing the point that Cleopatra's lineage was constantly in question because of the racial ambiguity of her grandparents. It is said that many servants and concubines were in Egypt working and Cleopatra's grandmother was an outsider from Nubia, who was involved with Cleopatra's grandfather and bore Cleopatra's father/uncle and sister/aunt.
They couldn't have made a better choice. Angelina Jolie is perfect for the role of Cleopatra!!
Its been said a few times above, but I will repeat it in case anyone missed it: CLEOPATRA WAS A PTOLMAIC GREEK. THAT MEANS SHE WASN'T BLACK. NEITHER WERE THE EGYPTIANS, THEY WERE SEMITIC. They did keep Nubian slaves who were black mind you. I hate people who seem intent on rewriting history, in this case the attempts to convince people that because Egypt is in Africa, its inhabitants were black. Revisionism doesn't make things true, no matter how much people want to make something true.
I don't care what the color of the skin. I just care about one's acting ability. And she is a fantastic actress in my opinion.
If Christians can turn Jesus into a tall white blue eyed blond roaming the desert 2000 years ago. Then why can't Hollywood turn the Queen of Egypt into a grossly underfed overpaid A list soon to be over the hill white actress.
CHECK IT OUT BROTHERS AND SISTERS: CLEOPATRA WAS A GREEK PRINCESS DESCENDED FROM PTOLEMY (ONE OF ALEXANDER THE GREAT'S GENERALS) AND FROM MITHRIDATES THE GREAT OF PONTUS (BY THE BLACK SEA). SHE WAS CAUCASIAN WITH DARK HAIR AND EYES MOST LIKELY.
THE EGYPTIAN PEOPLE WHOM SHE RULED (OUTSIDE OF ALEXANDRIA) WERE A MIXED RACE OF DARKSKINNED PEOPLE (HAMITO-SEMITIC) WHO HAD BOTH BLACK AFRICAN AND MEDITERANIAN WHITE HERITAGE. THIS WAS THE RESULT OF THOUSANDS OF YEARS OF INTERMIXING AND CONQUEST.
TODAY'S AFRICAN AMERICANS ARE ALSO A MIXED RACE BY CONQUEST AND ENSLAVEMENT. THEIR HERITAGE WAS STOLEN FROM THEM AND THEIR CULTURE ERASED FROM THEIR CONSCIOUSNESS, REPLACED BY THE CULTURE , LANGUAGE, AND RELIGION OF THEIR MASTERS. IT IS NATURAL FOR THEM TO WANT TO CLAIM SOMEONE LIKE CLEOPATRA AND THE CULTURE OF EGYPT. BUT THE TRUTH IS FAR MORE COMPLEX. ONE MUST LEARN BEFORE MAKING SUCH CLAIMS OR ELSE RUN THE RISK OF LOOKING FOOLISH. IN ANCIENT TIMES, THE LINES OF RACE WERE SOMETIMES MUCH MORE BLURRED. THE LATER EUROPEAN JUDEO-CHRISTIAN MINDSET HAD NOT YET BEEN ESTABLISHED, AND MANY CULTURES AND RELIGIONS EXISTED SIMULTANEOUSLY.
IF WE VIEW THESE ANCIENT CULTURES AND PEOPLES THROUGH OUR PRESENT DAY PREJUDICES AND SOCIAL -POLITICAL PERSPECTIVES, WE DO OURSELVES A DISSERVICE BECAUSE WE DENY THEIR TRUE REALITY. IF WE TRY TO LEARN THE TRUTH ABOUT THEM, IT MIGHT JUST HELP US UNDERSTAND OUR OWN CULTURE AND ROOTS, AND THE TRUE HUMANITY (GOOD AND BAD) THAT UNITES US ALL. BECAUSE WHAT HAPPENED BACK THEN STILL AFFECTS US TODAY.
THE PROBLEM WTIH HOLLYWOOD IS THAT THEY SELDOM GET IT RIGHT (WITNESS THE TERRIBLE "ALEXANDER" MOVIE WHICH STARRED ANGELINA JOLIE). SO DO NOT EXPECT MUCH FROM THEM.
At this time in our lives, we need to focus on more important issues than color or heritage. Lets just make the movie, buy a damn ticket and help the economy.
If you really want to be a stickler for matching the actor's ethnicity then Selma Hayak would have been a good choice!
Hey!!! What ever happened to the fact she can't act!!! If I was in casting, I think I would need to get my head examined!!!
Jesus was a handsome, proud black man.
A.Jolie just can't act. I don't care what she looks like but she's a terrible actress who is only prominent because of the way she looks. Only movie she ever did well was Gia. But she's a wonderful humanitarian.
See the black people play the race card all the time.. Sorry to say it but it is the truth, people with colored skin and some not had a hard HISTORY! Stop trying to milk it for all it is worth! I wish i could have a card! You know back in the day blacks were treated better then indians so hmm yeah... Who sold blacks first?? HMMM BLACKS!! People under the skin we are the same please can we just act like it for once!!
Monica Bellucci would be better 🙂
Of course Cleopatra was Macedonian and not Egyptian, so Jolie could play the part.
Personally I would like to see a fresher face. I thought Angelina Jolie was hot in the 90s, someone younger and fresher could really play this role. There are plenty of beautiful and talented unknowns.
Stop whining, does EVERY FRIGGING REMADE
movie need to made "black" the 2nd time.
You got the Karate Kid this month, that was bad enough.
There's plenty of top black performers now, this isn't like the old days when they were just playing Aunt Jemima and plantation worker or pimp.
Every kids movie that comes out now has a "black" voice as well. It's actually over done to a fault it's so out of control.
Was someone asleep for history or for world geography?? Go to college to wrint in the papers thousands of dollars out the window to say, Cleopatra was an African Queen! Oh sure because Rome is so close to Africa! Want to talk about roles that do not fit, Will Smith as Jim West in Wild Wild West we all know that role is for DUH a white guy but guess what he did great in the MOVIE! It makes no sence but it is just a MOVIE! NOTICE the word MOVIE! Please people come on there are bigger things out there to bi**h about ! If you want a job to just complain I bet you would go to the top of the company ASAP! This is why people are losing faith in human kind we are just getting dumber and dumber all the time!
Cleopatra was no beauty...http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe/02/14/cleopatra.coin/
Cleopatra was Greek. The Greek people during her time were light skinned and many had blue or green eyes. Some of the Greek people are olive skinned and browned eyed today due to the invasion of the Turks. Angelina Jolie would be ideal for the role.
A lot of black people don't get their educations from schools and universities. They get it from morons who claim that Jesus was black (not Jewish) and that Egyptians were black as well! And then they say they want a color-blind society and then complain when an black actress isn't cast to match their crazy notions!
Here's a clue, fool! Stay in school! Or I pity the fool (who falls for the idiotic stuff that comes out of these African revisionists)!
Seriously, Jesus doesn't have to be black and you don't have to have built the pyramids to respect yourself and your fellow blacks. Be proud of yourself and make your own history.
This is very funny....you guys talk about your history and you argue about the ethnicity and color of Cleopatra....but who wrote your history??? Was it a black person writing about Africa his homeland or was it a White visitor writing about what he thought Africa is/was???? I find it very amusing that someone thinks that the pyramids were built by white people.....I bet you also think the concept of numbers and mathematics came with white people...
Check your history people. Cleopatra was a direct descendent on one of Alexander the Greats Macedonian generals, Ptolemy. Egyptians today are not black (in US terms) or white – they are Egyptian. The cry for a black Cleopatra is based in a post-modern pan-Africanist philosophy that is just as racist as that of the KKK or the NSDAP.
CLEOPATRA WAS GREEK!!!!!!!! She was not Arab, she was not black. Whe was a direct decendant of one of Alexandrer's generals. People, get your facts straight!!!!
i say we just throw everything out the window and cast an ASIAN MALE for this role. how about rain? he kicked butt in ninja assassin.
The details of the words and specifics is upsetting in this forum. That people are bickering over what this and that exact thing of history, being racist or more racist of that comment is so lame. The bottom line is: Will and can the people buying the tickets for this movie identify with Angie Jolie, phhhsttt, probably not. She is a lame glossy magazine cover and not a reflection of any woman period. All black woman and any woman of color, actually ALL woman should be offended that this so-called actress is even being considered for this role. I believe that the general audience is smarter than to be suckered by flash and whistles of the Hollywood meat grinder. I do believe we do live in a time that a white audience can identify with a black actress. Yes, there are more out there, not just Haile Berry. Black folk should get mad that one of the distant characters that we have no real connection to somehow made its way to our culture and inspired us. (black power movement, right on) Made black woman self esteem stronger whether the details of Cleopatras ethnic background was black or white. It made black folk coming out of segregation, say we are not just a group of people with just slavery in our past, but we were kings and queens, raise your head up and be proud. White folk, take note, this something that alot of you don't understand, its hard, but take second and think, ahem, "Jesus". But c'mon when we saw Iman portray a egyptian queen in Michael Jacksons video "Remember the time" that was it. If she could act, that would be my vote!
The question is – to a woman of what color?
Who cares? It wil probably be an expensive flop anyway. Maybe La Jolie should do Shakespeare in the Park next year instead.
To those who say she was black, why don't you do some true readings about the history in that area before you post your comments. This is not about equality....this is history.
Jolie is just wrong for the part, and it doesn't have to do with her race. She just looks too modern-age (tall, muscular body, and too much northern European blood in those features. I can better imagine Halle Barre in the part. Or here's what might seem an odd idea: Sandra Bullock. Think of her look for the Academy Awards. Her body is right, and her features are such that she could be of many genetic backgrounds. She'd have to work on that flat accent, though.
As much as I may like Angelina and the fact that she may have the perfect physical features to play Cleopatra, it must be understood that Cleopatra was black. It doesn't matter that you get different races in Egypt now, the actual queen was black. It may look good casting someone like Angelina (personally I think Leonor Varela was the best looking actress that played Cleopatra), but if they want to make it more realistic, can't they cast someone like Halle Berry? Shes gorgeous, has the body, and could do a brilliant job!
Aradhna, Cleopatra was NOT black. Holy cow how ignorant are people? There is absolutely no credible evidence to support any mixed ethnicity of Cleopatra. This bogus mixed ethnicity claim is a modern invention. Ancient sources and evidence do not support any such claim. Cleopatra's grandmothers and her mother are both known. They both belonged to the Ptolemaic bloodline. They were not black African nor Egyptian given the xenophobic tendencies of the Ptolemies who inbred to preserve their royal Greek-Macedonian bloodline, they surrounded themselves with Greek royals, upper class and ruling elite. The Ptolemies sometimes inter-married with other Greek-Macedonian Dynasties but tended to prefer to inbred among each other. It is sometimes unclear which child was born from which wife, but the wives were all of the Greek-Macedonian lineage. Their numbers after their names might not be certain but their genealogy is not in question, what we are certain of is the fact that they were all Ptolemaic princesses or queens.
To all the people who are offended or irritated with "Black" folk that are offended by this actress portraying Cleopatra. Take a step back and realize the issue is not the specific ethnic background. It is the fact of how "blacks" have had to re-invent their history and we know this, let alone the social and psychological issues. And Cleopatra's story is something that African-Americans and specifically woman have "identified" with, whether she was greek, white, italian or whatever. Forget the specifics of the color, it was a woman that was powerful in Africa, that alone can boost ones self confidence, ahem, especially if anyone was aware of the history and the present. Just like the whole "jesus' being argument, white folk want to worship someone that they an identify with. Whats wrong with an "African American" actress portraying this role which with the "history" of america and the individual actress, it would be epic. Let alone the challenge of inspiring not only black girls but all your woman in the world. Since this an American Movie an African American woman would have a bigger challenge and the test of the heart. Angie is pretty but she's got no heart. Overall, this movie would be epic and i'd rather see someone put their soul on film than someone who has white guilt and insecurities of being such a bad actress that need to put millions of glitz and glam to cover up bad acting. Let a Black Woman take this role I'm sure white america can handle it and i believe Liz Taylor would be happy.
Cleopatra was Greek. She was a Ptolemy, the Hellenistic family which ruled Egypt after Alexander the Great conquered it. Casting an African woman wouldn't make any sense.
The reason why Cleopatra's race is unknown is because it is believed that her mother was a concubine; thus making Cleopatra of mixed race. True, Cleopatra primarily descends from Greece; however. given that her color and race were truly unknown and the argument could go both ways – why not have a woman of color play her?? Why just go one way? Hollywood wouldn't be wrong in casting a white woman but since that has been done SO many times maybe they should consider actresses who have some natural color to them. And having Brad Pitt play Marc Anthony would NOT be a good choice. Neither Pitt nor Jolie do period pieces very well. If the casting continues this way, they might as well have Michael Bay direct it!!!
Ann, Cleopatra's mom is known, its only in modern times that it has become 'unknown' to certain people for their own politically motivated agendas. Her mother was white and of the Ptolemaic bloodline. We have descriptions and depictions of how Cleopatra looked and what her race was: white European. The ancient poet Horace (65-8 B.C.) wrote that Cleopatra was as white as alabaster and another ancient writer Lucan wrote of “Cleopatra's white breasts were revealed by the fabric of Sidon... close-woven by the shuttle of the Seres.” So many ancient sources that talk about Cleopatra being white.
Sorry... I meant to say: Cleopatra's GRANDMOTHER is said to have been a concubine from Nubia.
Who Cares
Mark Anthony was Roman, Romans did not fall in-love with blacks, they enslave them. Sad but true.
How silly. Egyptians were not black.
Yall R ignant
Cleopatra is a negative and matured role. Thandie Newton, Angelina Jolie or Zoe Zaldana would be perfect.
...another Angelina movie I will pass on...she looks good but is NOT a good actress!!!
White people don't know their history but are quick to tell you the history of others. For those of you whose head wont't explode to know the truth, read National Geographic Feb. 2008, 'The Black Pharaohs;Conquerors of Ancient Egypt." Statues of Nubian kings 10 feet high were found buried at the Nubian capital of Kerma. King Taharqa was black. Nubia where all the blacks lived was the source of all the gold. But I know--Nubia was really France......You people are so delusional but it's ok. Your fading to brown as we speak...
give me a break...read a history book sometime...cleopatra was greek/macedonian...she's beautiful, talented and i think perfect for the role...and just like elizabeth taylor, who by the way the film was "taylor" made for her, i think Jolie, will be awesome, if they make the film for her...perfect vehicle.
Since Cleo was a Macedonian Greek, she was not black. But I guess most blacks will continue to stick their fingers in their ears and sing "I can't hear you!"
egyptians arose from Mesopotamia which is modern-day Iraq.
I propose Nikki Haley (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikki_Haley) should be given the part.
Then she could follow the footsteps of other Republican actors who had become Governors of the state of CA, where as on her part – the Governor of SC. Hey, then, she could even become the next Republican President.
There is no proof that I can see that she was either black or white, black people don't need to claim Cleo as a representative, there are many highly respected educated strong individuals in their culture, Whites can't really claim her either; Roman society in ancient times was multicultural and with migration being what it was in ancient times the individuals that occupy the land today may not be the same individuals that occupied the land in ancient times, in the end what does it matter really?
She is odd, weird, not really pretty, and just plain strange. If Cleopatra had tattoos and hung a necklace with a vial of her lover's blood around her neck, perhaps Angelina would be perfect for the role.
I vote for Scarlett Johansson.
For the love of God, Cleopatra was of the Ptolemy dynasty. Ptolemy was one of the generals of Alexander the Great, and he was Greek. More specifically, a Greek from Macedonia. And the Greek rulers of the Hellenistic Age did not mix with the natives. So Cleopatra was of the Greek Macedonian race. Not of African descent, not even an Egyptian. So Angelina, who also played the mother of Alexander in Stone's movie, can go ahead and play the part. However, Cleopatra was not THAT perfect.
But I thought she looked entirely inappropriate as Alexander's mama, too.
Halle Berry
Cleaoptra was Greek by ancestry so what is the big deal about having a white woman portray her?
Actually, it doesn't at all surprise me that there are people upset that a woman of black African descent isn't portraying Cleopatra. Historical ignorance is endemic to our culture. Assuming that, because Egypt is located on the African continent, is all some people need to presume Cleopatra must have been black is quite the commentary all by itself. Sad is all it is, just sad. It would be an indictment of the school system if those people had ever gone to school.
Surely enough is known about the probable racial characteristics to get a credible Cleopatra. That being said I can't imagine Angelina Jolie being cast in this role no matter WHAT color Cleopatra really was. I have never seen her to put on a credible performance – she totally lacks personality – and I personally find her artificial and ugly. Throw Brad in as Mark Anthony and you might be able to make it into a Grade B comedy though.
Cleopatra was the daughter of a Greek senator, greece was founded by whites from the danube region not by the ethnic groups in greece TODAY.
there is nothing racist in historical accuracy,blacks demanding that all of egyptian history be re-written is in fact extremely racist.Egyptians were not nubians,people of black skin only made an appearance in the later kingdoms many in fact had statues depicting people with non-african countenances remade, repainted etc. , kind of what is being done today.
Read a histroy book people. Cleopatra was a descendent of Alexander's general, Ptolemy. The Ptolemies only married siblings to keep the bloodline pure. Cleopatra was not a "woman of color'. She was not even Egyptian. She was a Greek.
Complainers, get real. Producers are paying for an epic production. They will cast for box office receipts, not your sense of correctness.
This is really annoying. As a historical fact,Cleopatra was Greek; she wasn't black.
This actually is a kind of offensive argument since it belittles real civil rights issues.
Anyone who knows ancient history will realize thart Cleopatra was of Greek decent. When Alezander the Great died, his will divided his kingdom (the ancient world including Egypt) to his Generals. General Potolome (Cleopatra's ancestor) received and ruled Egypt and passed it down to his decendents. Last time I checked, greeks were olive skined not people of color. Enough with racism.
Here comes the cannon ball. We all black. 🙂
If you google Egypt...It's in Africa but is not considered Africa but instead it is oart of The Middle East. You should check that out...
what diference does it make, I'm pretty sure that there weren't any Australian gladiators but Russell Crowe did all right. let's be realistic, it's a film made by white people for white audiences as most films are. If they want a black Cleopatra, let Spike Lee make one. It's like last month on TCM, Native Americans in film. An Indian complaining how white actors portrayed Indians. How many Native Americans were stars in 1939, as it was John Ford used Navaho's as the Indiams in Stagecoach, but he still called Ford racist. Or how African Americans complain about the blacks who were in the movies in the 30s and 40's were so foolish acting, well so was Lou Costello but I never heard an italian complain about him.
Sounds like another blackwash in hollywood to me. I hope the african community starts buying tickets to the movies, because personally I will not support this rasicm
In 1000 years, they'll have a white actor playing Obama.. haha...
The writer, LISA RESPERS, is just fanning racial flames. Had she simply provided more information about Cleopatra's ancestry, many people wouldn't have jumped to conclusions.
Many African Americans, make a big deal about whether or not Cleopatra was black or not because so much of history has been rewritten to appease a particular group of people. Truth be told if the truth was told then people wouldn't be up in arms about the REAL truth.
I find it amusing that," people of color" means "black", or African. The phrase takes on many more cultures than that of the African, or black race.
Don't forget my brothers and sisters, "people of color" can be Asian, Mexican, I don't care how "white" you look, or what the census says. Lets not forget those hot Italians too. In short.......who gives a @#*&%!! Pick someone who can act! Anyone but Angie. She nasty! LOL
boycott ange
Just hire a Kardashian to play Cleopatra... haha... you know that the make-up artists will do the stereotypical make-up on the actress– then voila– Cleopatra...
Funny, I always thought the same thing when looking at the portrayal Jesus Christ on the cross by the Catholic Church.
I'm betting that he was a darkie, not the fair complected, blue eyed "Jeffery Hunter".
So what Essence is saying is that all Africans look alike?
hahaha. OMG I could sit here all night. Part of me wants to cry at the complete lack of eduation some people have and part of me wants to laugh until I cry. I cannot believe 1100 people have posted on this topic!
Um, why not Halle Berry? Or someone with a slightly darker complexion than Angelina? These aren't the old days in Hollywood, when everyone was depicted by a white person, a la Liz Taylor as Cleo.
lets face it, angelina is a tranny...
Some people need to take a history leson, Cleopatra was part of the Ptolemaic dynasty, from Greece. She was not black. If you dont believe be look it up. Jolie would be a fantastic Cleo.
...angelina is a beautiful lady, but her look is too modern for the part..i think...
Cleopatra was not a woman of color! She wasn't even Egyptian people! Jolie is PERFECT for the role!!
To set the record straight it does matter who plays cleopatra now because it effect the general publics knowledge of who she really was. For starters do not mistake egyptians now from egyptians back then. Egyptians back then, before immigrants of all different colors came to egypt were indeed AFRICAN!!!! Cleopatra herself was not really queen to serve the black egyptian people she was queen who truly served herself she could care less about the people of egypt. She however was not fully of African descent as many would like to believe, however kings and queens before her were of African descent (Darker skinned people). On the subject of Angelina Jolie playing Cleopatra I say go for it I think she would do a great job. It is important to know that Black people once ruled Egypt with noble might and strength, it has undoubtedly been forgotten over the years but one day in the future it shall be remembered.
I think Jolie is perfect for the part, and I am not a fan of hers. Cleopatra was not an attractive lady, but conventional (back in the day and today) standards. But she was well spoken, strong willed, and carried herself in such a way that oozed confidence and power. I'm sure we all know women like this. Angelina does that, even if I don't like her very much.
Oh, for goodness' sake, people, Cleopatra was Macedonian. Her family came from northern Greece. Crack open a history book.
We all have "color"-if we didn't we'd be invisible. Isn't saying that a person is a "person of color" like saying a person is colored? Not all that long ago white people would refer to a black person as "colored"-as if any complexion other than white as "colored" That was ignorant of course-and I think saying "a person of color" is just as ignorant. Anyway-Angelina is so beautiful I say give her any part or anything she wants!!!
To claim Cleopatra was of color because Egypt is in Africa is as insane as demanding that Little Black Sambo be removed from all libraries, etc., back a number of years ago. Black Jumbo and Black Mambo, and Llittle Black Sambo were East Indians. Anyone knows that they were in India from the fact there was a tiger in the story. Tigers are not in Africa, only Asia. Yes, I am still upset that a simple innocent book was removed in the United States because of the misperceptions of a few, just like the misperceptions that cause people to believe Cleopatra was black. Get some knowledge, people,....... learn, remember.
You white people want everything to be white?
No just historically accurate white figures like Cleopatra who was white. Learn history please and stop trying to highjack historical white queens like Cleopatra.
If some people actually read history books they would know that although Cleopatra was queen of Egypt, her ancestry was Greek, she wasn't an ethnic egyptian. Now, how many ethnic black ethnic Greeks have we met?
Who cares what colour she is...I'm just hoping Angelina won't put on a fake accent. That would be hilarious.
I am of Egyptian blood, born and raised there. My people are not black. It is a fact.
But, with Barack Obama and Oprah being black, I sometimes wish if I was one !
Arabs are part of the caucasian race i.e. white, Cleopatra was white get over it we can't re-write history just to please black people who are not happy with the facts.
Cleopatra was not a person of color. She was not even Egyptian. Those who don't know history should not claim that just because the country is on the African continent that everyone is 'of color'. Cleopatra was GREEK, and the last I heard, they are not 'of color.' And she was not even pretty. They said she was desirable because of her beliefs and sensuality, not beauty.
All, I'm an American of mixed race visiting Cairo. I'm surprised to see a lot of Egyptians are WHITE. In fact 20%-30% of the population in Cairo have GREEN eyes! Also all the portraits of Cleopatra I've seen here in Cairo tells me she was white... not even "bronze".
Hmm.. I think it's up to the people who are paying for this movie and the director to determine who they want on screen. Until then, when you have the money to make your own Cleopatra rendition, feel free to cast whoever you want.
Cleopatra was also reportedly an ugly duckling. Lets get Susan Boyle and make it a musical.
Goodness......will history EVER be appropriately represented? Cleopatra was NOT white OR of European descent. Angelina is a great woman but she is still a white woman whose race would NOT accurately represent the true image of Cleopatra. Egypt is found on the African continent- thus, an African country, although culturally many people identify otherwise. The end.
Erika PW how many NONE white European ancient Queens do you know who had European names like Cleopatra, hmm? My goodness how ignorant are American black people. Cleopatra was a WHITE woman, she came from a Dynasty that was WHITE and EUROPEAN. the official language under Cleopatra was a EUROPEAN language: GREEK because guess what that is what Cleopatra was. Having anyone but a white actress portray this historically white Queen will be totally inaccurate. 'The end'.
I am a black woman and I do believe that AJ will do great in the movie. However, reading so many negative comments leads me to believe that there are racial issues on both sides. Until you experience racism firsthand (and usually that's everyday for some people), you CANNOT understand it's deep routed affects. I try to understand some white people's ignorance as it relates to matters of race; it's easy to say get over it, but the reality is racism still exists. That is obvious just from the comments that are made on this blog. I know you may believe that you are OK; because you don't wear a sheet over your head, but what is in your heart eventually comes out. While Essence may have been premature in starting this conversation, understand that it is not without merit. Being a black woman I understand the sensitivity of how our history has been whitewashed. It's in texts and every other history book. When i was in high school, the only introduction of black people in the books started with slavery. That's not true. So, understand the emotion behind this. I believe if white people truly had an appreciation for all people of color (asian, black, brown, yellow) there would be less dialogue about these issues. The reality is you control the media, so you control the image. Share the world.
Ugh... I'm soooo sick of Angelina Jolie. What's so damn great about her? And Brad freaking Pitt. Who cares about them?!?
Cleopatra was a tall woman with a big nose. Judy Gold would be a better choice if you could keep her from camping.
Hollywood seldom gets anything right. I won't see this film with Jolie in the role. Hollywood sucks big time, big, big time.
Some Bollywood actress such as Ashwaria Rai and Priyanka Chopara can provide color needed to represent Cleopatra's portrait and they will give justice to the royalty character of Cleopatra.
I'm so sick and tired of all white people with there looser recessive genes and pointed noised with there flat asses, small chest, thin lips, white people have no history and no culture and white on white can only make white kids.... White people are the ugly white skinned haters of the world.
Cleopatra was no black African and you need to go get yourself an education. Cleopatra was as white as her name clearly suggest her to be. The ancient poet Horace (65-8 B.C.) wrote that Cleopatra was as white as alabaster and another ancient writer Lucan wrote of “Cleopatra's white breasts were revealed by the fabric of Sidon... close-woven by the shuttle of the Seres.” So many ancient sources that talk about Cleopatra being white and yet we still have idiots around here trying to incorrectly claim she was some 'black/mixed' woman. Ludicrous.
Considering her amazing work with thousands of refugees, she can play anything she wants for all I'm concerned.
So, some of you think that just because Cleopatra ruled Egypt, a country in Africa, that she should be played by a black person (Despite her not being black)? This would be like saying that a Nigerian who ruled India should be played by someone of Indian decent. C'mon people. Cleopatra wasn't black, so she shouldn't be played by a black actress. It's not racist. Would you think it would be ok for a white woman to portray Oprah?
Cleopatra was primarily Macedonian, but the Macedonians were not white. Greeks even today do not regard themselves as white. Maybe some that emigrate to the US, and try to pass or move up the social ladder. But take the plastic surgery out, the various cosmetic changes, the skin creams, the blonding and straightening of the hair, and go back 2000 years ago, Macedonians looked more mixed with black than now.
David you are obviously clueless. Greeks have always viewed themselves as white because guess what they are white. Ancient Macedonians are some of the fairest colored Greeks around, they look nothing like any mixed white and black people. Please go get yourself an education and then go check out ancient depictions of Macedonians: they are typical of fair and blond coloring.
Hey David this is what the ancient Macedonians from 2000 years ago looked like: your typical white blond type. Tell us again how ancient Macedonians were not white but some mixed black people so I can laugh at your ignorance.
http://www.adam-carr.net/mainphotofolder/greece-turkey/pella-vergina/PICT0275.JPG
I've got a Cleo for you how about Keanu..
According to historical evidence, Cleopatra was born in Greece, and later ruled over Egypt since that region of Africa was part of ancient Greece. I know that Jolie is one of the most diverse actresses living today, she would probably do very well. cheers!
How ridiculous! Do black people not know history? Cleopatra was a descendant of the Ptolemy dynasty...who were GREEK! Absolutely NOT Black African. By the same logic, in the future if there's a movie about Barack Obama, I think he should be portrayed as an Asian.
I think Jolie would be great. Not sure if Brad should play opposite - I wouldn't want to have the constant comparison to one of Hollywood's greatest couples. Might not hold water, ultimately, tho I love them as Hollywood's new millenium couple. History has been clearly noted in previous posts!
Cosider it payback for making the karate kid black...
This is stupid, the Ptolemy dynasty was Macedonian, and heavily inbred. It is infuriating to me when Afrocentrism is used as an excuse to change history.
There would have been very limited mixing with the local populations, and indeed, if you look at any contemporary statues of Cleopatra she looks to be European.
You could have a debate on whether the statue-makers were just projecting "ideal" looks onto her, but we don't exactly have much evidence to go on one way or another.
99% chance she was at least 3/4 Greek.
Who cares? She could be purple as far as I am concerned.
Why do blacks always think that just because Egypt is in Africa their kings and queens must be black too? So stupid.
Someone mentioned that historically there are several Cleopatra's referenced so please people read! And end this race thing . Angelina Jolie is portraying the Greek version , Cleopatra . There is no law stating that one can't be made about an African or Nubian Cleopatra , that most black people including myself was told about and believe also existed. Case closed
There was no African or Nubian Cleopatra. How many ancient Africans or Nubians do you know with GREEK NAMES like Cleopatra? NONE ZERO ZIP. Cleopatra VII was heir to a 250-year-old Greek dynasty that began when Ptolemy I, one of Alexander the Great’s boyhood friends and generals. After him the Ptolemies embraced traditions of divine rulership and the incest that logically followed. So enthusiastically was the inbreeding embraced that the 16 roles of Cleopatra’s great-great-grandparents were filled by only six individuals, all of whom did double, and sometimes triple, duty as parents, spouses and siblings. The practice opened the door for the family’s equally divine females to occasionally rule (Cleopatra VII was not the first), made domestic life at court literally murderous (there were always equally eligible rivals around) and—perhaps—contributed to the family’s marked tendency to obesity. Such was Cleopatra’s family, and such too was Cleopatra: she had a sister and a brother killed, waged war against another brother, and seems to have run to the family plumpness. When Diana Preston asked an archeosteologist, a specialist in postmortem facial reconstruction, to create a model of Cleopatra based on her image on coins and the busts of other members of her inbred family, the result—fleshy-faced pale and hawk-nosed, with a protruding chin and an underhang beneath the jaw—was a woman far from today’s standard of beauty.
Americans, please read-up on your History!!! Cleopatra was Greek! NOT African-American. The fact that she ruled Egypt which was and is on the continent of Africa doesn't mean that she was african.
The only thing is, As history tells, Cleopatra was NOT a very good looking lady, as is Angelina Jolie. She is known to have had a very long and distinctive nose. But Hollywood employees incredible make-up artists who can whip up a long nose in no time.LOL
BOTTOM LINE: Cleopatra was descended directly from Ptolemy, a Roman man. She was "Italian" as we would call it today. I'm all for portrayal of race where race is due, but Jolie fits the bill.
Instead of people being completely ignorant about Cleopatra and outraging over the fact that she's not being played by a black woman when she was not black, maybe people should focus on the outrage of there not being ONE movie portraying the NUBIAN empire which was an amazing African civilization that rivaled the Egyptians????
Even as the demographics of the United States changes, Old Hollywood is still colored blind. Hollywood is traditionally known for casting its caucasian actors and actresses in roles meant for people of color. Notice how many of Hollywood's leading men and women back in the day were made to be native Americans. I still can't get that imagine of Chuck Connors as Geronimo, in the 1962 movie of the same name, out of my head!!! The public needs to let their voices be heard, and maybe SOMEDAY the OLD Hollywood traditionalists will realize that you CAN MAKE MONEY using people of color, because THEY ARE BEAUTIFUL TOO instead of flushing these roles with what OLD Hollywood feels are the most beautiful people, caucasians.
she would be perfect
There was several Cleopatra's people;
Pick one that suits you and move on . Make a movie about the one you identify with and hopefully you can be satisfied with Ms. Jolie playing the Greek version .
race aside, which by the way, most of you are correct in the fact that cleopatra was not black..... jolie is in my opinion perfect for the role. exotic looking and very graceful in movement. exactly what hollywood cleopatras have always looked like. I cant wait to see how she looks if indeed she is chosen
Cher. Only Cher can play Cleopatra. Case closed.
I can't imagine what they are thinking about by even considering her for this role.--Egyptians are dark people. Yes, there are some lighter Egyptians but none of them are white. Again, I can't even imagine what they are thinking about.
Also, history portrays this queen as being a "full" woman. She was very shapely with "full" arms and legs. I don't see this in Anjolina either. Overall, she's not a good pick.
Cleopatra? Boring.
The bottom line is that this is a movie not a history lesson. And who is to say she will be blue eyed in the movie?? She may wear colored contacts. And who is to say Cleopatra didn't have blue eyes? Angie is a great actress and I'm sure it will be a box office hit.
K, those desperate in their longing to pin anyone and everyone famous to their culture are a ship full of fools. Tiger Woods? He doesn't even proclaim himself to be African-American and yet everyone refers to him as the first great black golfer. Obama? He's of mix race yet everyone refers to him as an African-American. Cleopatra? Hello! One, she was a tyrannical killer who would do anything for power. Two, she was of GREEK descent. Three, even if she had been from Africa, hello, not everyone there is of one color just like with every other nation on earth. All of those who constantly cry racism, here's a hint. You don't want race to be an issue? QUIT BRINGING IT UP ALL THE TIME. Whoever they choose to play Cleopatra should be done on the basis of ability and ticket draw not becase her skin is too light. Hey wait, wouldn't THAT be racist?
She would make a great Cleopetra.
It's Mark Antony, NOT Mark Anthony
Well I think she is a great actress and the movie will makes lots of money. If I wanted to have a history lesson I would watch BBC or national geographic or something.
ha ha... all this chit chat and she doesn't even want the role!
Angelina Jolie is not a good actress, if she plays Cleopatra I will not watch it based on that! Her last few movies have been awful. Her career is on it's way out and she is such a bad person in real life that I think that's reason enough not to watch her movies. Please get a real actress for this role!
I keep hearing that Cleopatra was Greek as though that mean anything. The African genes was already well establish in Greece along before Cleopatra. A matter of fact , the African genes is so well establish in Europe, that 33% of all white British have African genes in them, made so by a process that was initiated 1500 years ago.
ZunguZunguZeng, you are once again 100% wrong. There were no "African genes" in Greece. Greek people did not look like black people nor mixed african. Go study how ancient Greeks depict themselves. they are white Europeans. And Cleopatra came from the Greek tribe the Macedonians who are typically very fair in coloring.
Cleopatra descended from Alexander's generals. Greek.
did you know that Cleo only had 6 great-grandfather out of a possible 16? Guess what! The were Caucasian and so was she. She is of Greek decent, inbred to the teeth and white white white. Read about her and you will know better. She was a very interesting Greek/Roman looking woman who wore dark haired wigs because that was the fashion in Egypt. You shaved your hair and then put someone else's hair on. Strange, but thats the way it was done.
Attn: Nina
You should educate yourself and not rely on "Hollywood" My goodness, you should like the Arizona governor. Why do you think Egypt is? Would it not be Africa? What was the bone structure of her sister? Not of African decent, was it not?
The bone structure of her sister was not found. stop with the lies. Neither Cleopatra nor her sister had any African admixture The ancient poet Horace (65-8 B.C.) wrote that Cleopatra was as white as alabaster and another ancient writer Lucan wrote of “Cleopatra's white breasts were revealed by the fabric of Sidon... close-woven by the shuttle of the Seres.” So many ancient sources that talk about Cleopatra being white and yet we still have idiots around here trying to incorrectly claim she was some 'black/mixed' woman. Ludicrous.
Candyland, how do you know Cleo wasnt very light skinned? were you living back then?? Many greeks have very fair skin and are blonde , why does she have to have a specific skin color how about the best actress gets the role, novel idea huh?
Why would people want a historically caucasian figure to be played by someone dark?? Cleopatra was Ptolemaic, not Egyptian. Silliness.
I would rather see Jolie play in the next Tomb Raider movie!
I don't particularly like Jolie and I think she's overrated and overexposed, but oddly enough I think she'd be a perfect fit IF the directing and acting is done well.
I'm Egyptian. The comment about Cleopatra being played by a "women of color" shows a distinct lack of understanding. On average, Egyptians are white. We have tan skin, but we are not black. If I can't claim "African America" on my student loans, Cleopatra shouldn't be played by someone who looks so different.
With that said, many Egyptologists don't believe Cleopatra was Egyptian, but rather Greek. She was not black.
I would hate to see Angelina Jolie play Cleopatra because she's not a good actress.
Boo Hoo. The NAACP and their constant whining is getting pretty fricking old. It's entertainment. Stop always getting your feelings hurt and shut up already.
Crack a history book and stop watching the Disney Channel. Alexander the great conquered Egypt and his general Ptolemy ruled it. Cleopatra was a direct decendent. It sure is a bummer when FACTS get in the way of one's cherised racial agenda. Also, do you honestly believe that Ceaser or Mark Anthony would consort with a Nubian in ancient Rome??? Flush your headgear out folks.
Lets not forget that the folks in Egypt today did not look the way they did a 1,000+ years ago. 1,000+ years ago their futures would have been more strongly African than it is today. Lets also not forget that Egypt is part of the African continent and a member of the African Union, and that it is sunny and very hot. The point is that there is not doubt that Queen Cleopatra is a African woman, a woman whose complexion has been kiss by the Sun and not the tanning booth.
ZunguZunguZeng, you are 100% wrong. Cleopatra was no African women, ancient African women didn't have European names like Cleopatra and ancient Greek royals like Cleopatra were fair skinned and they didn't sit under the sun to tan their bodies given tanned bodies were seen a lower class back then of field hands working out in the fields underneath the hot sun. The ancient poet Horace (65-8 B.C.) wrote that Cleopatra was as white as alabaster and another ancient writer Lucan wrote of “Cleopatra's white breasts were revealed by the fabric of Sidon... close-woven by the shuttle of the Seres.” So many ancient sources that talk about Cleopatra being white and yet we still have idiots around here trying to incorrectly claim she was some 'black/mixed' woman. Ludicrous.
good heavens
CLEOPATRA WAS GREEK
Cleopatra was a Macedonian Greek. Doesn't anyone have an education anymore?
Bust of Cleo carved during her lifetime (form Wiki entry re 'Ancient Egyptian Race Controversy'):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Kleopatra-VII.-Altes-Museum-Berlin1.jpg
Again prejudice. Egypt has many colors and ethnicities and she is an actress and that is what actresses do play roles.
Who cares? I'm sick of seeing her!
The Cleo of this discussion was from the Pyolemy line of almost pure Greek blood. The Brother and Sister Ptolemy clan married to keep the lines Macedonian. Talk to any historian or archeologist...its amazing how so many people base opinions off totally false info.
read some and stop guessing: http://www.youregypt.com/ehistory/history/greek/cleopatravii/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/egypt/4995155/Cleopatra-had-African-ancestry-skeleton-suggests.html
You guys need to read updated facts:
Evidence obtained by studying the dimensions of Arsinöe’s skull shows she had some of the characteristics of white Europeans, ancient Egyptians and black Africans, indicating that Cleopatra was probably of mixed race, too. They were daughters of Ptolemy XII by different wives.
No one is saying that Cleopatra was 100% black, they are just saying she didn't look like Angelina Jolie either. But its Hollywood. When has Hollywood ever told the truth when it comes to the movies. Just like slaves were happy in "Gone with the Wind". I say let it go and let Hollywood do what it does best, keep the lies going. Research for yourself (updated materials) and come to your own conclusion. Oh, and everyone stop quoting Wikipedia. Seriously.
You might want to brush up on the fact that article is based upon bogus misinformation. For one that body isn't Arsinoe for the main reason its that of a young teen girl while Cleopatra's sister was killed in her twenties. Secondly they used the outdated 'skull method' to determine the 'race' of the skeleton remains on a skull they don't even have. Thirdly its a known fact that the Ptolemies did not intermix outside their Greek-Macedonian royal lineage. So neither Cleopatra nor her sister were of 'mixed' origins. The ancient poet Horace (65-8 B.C.) wrote that Cleopatra was as white as alabaster and another ancient writer Lucan wrote of “Cleopatra's white breasts were revealed by the fabric of Sidon... close-woven by the shuttle of the Seres.” So many ancient sources that talk about Cleopatra being white and yet we still have some around here trying to incorrectly claim she was some 'black/mixed' woman. Ludicrous.
She's a great actress. She did a fantastic job on the Changling. Give her a chance to show how talented she really is.
What no one seems to remember is that Cleopatra wasn't actually Egyptian – both her parents were offspring of the Greek Ptolemaic dynasty that ruled Egypt before it was taken over by Rome, a remnant of Alexander the Great's conquests a few centuries earlier. So Cleopatra wasn't Egyptian, nor was she African, but Greek. And lo and behold, Greeks are generally considered to be white (as opposed to black), so demanding that an actress of [sub-Saharan] African descent play someone who was not African is really unjustifiable.
So, now all traditional Africans are "sub saharan blacks" who never made any contribution to other parts of the continent, Egypt included? A real historian would know better.
IT'S a MOVIE. Get over it, read a history book and go pay attention to your kids. Good lord people....seriously?
None of this matters. The truth is Angelina Jolie is a bad actor and there are better actors of all cultures, black, white, hispanic, asian that could and should play the part. She's on of the worst.
everybody know Miss Cleo a black woman! Like that stick-in-bones ghost-girl Angelina Jolie gonna be able to play my Nubian princess Miss Cleo, from the psychic network y'all???!!!
To have a Black woman portray Cleo historically would be like casting a White man to portray MalcolmX or Dr. Martin Luther King historically. Not right! Angelina is a good choice.
The Ptolemaic dynasty was Hellenistic, having been founded 300 years before by Ptolemy I Soter, a Macedonian Greek general of Alexander the Great. As such, Cleopatra's language was the Greek spoken by the Hellenic aristocracy, though she was reputed to be the first ruler of the dynasty to learn Egyptian. Thus, she was European (Macedonian).
Reading this is proof that our school systems suck!
Hello! Jennifer Aniston is Greek! Aniston's Greek American father was born Yannis Anastassakis on the island of Crete, Greece, while her mother is of Scottish and Italian descent and was born in New York City. She lived in Greece for one year as a child with her family, and they later relocated to New York City. It seems they have cast the wrong Mrs. Pitt.
jaye.hawthorne: dude, are you high? I'd suggest that you STFU until you read a real history book. Rent 'Idiocracy'. It's filled with people like you.
Modern human beings appeared in African around 200,000 years ago. Unless you're one of those idiots who believes the world was created only 6,000 years ago by the Flying Spaghetti Monster in the sky. We are all Africans. That means Cleopatra was descended from "Africans" as were all her people. As are you and I. IIt is not suprising to see how insecure people are about skin color as regards historical figures, as we have all been programmed to despise the African part of our human heritage. It is an unfortunate reality. Maybe one day we can all learn to love Africa again and rediculous discussions like the one about Angelina Jolie being cast in the movie will be come irrelevant.
It's about selling tickets, not historical accuracy.
Fine by me...Cleopatra was of Greek lineage, a descendant of one of Alexander the Great's Generals
What's Moor, the true romantic Cleopatra wasn't even part EGGPLANT, she was full CANTALOUPE!
I think angelina jolie is highly over rated. She is OK looking, but not all that. And as for her as cleopatra, I think they could do better. I think Scarlet Johanson would be a much better choice. And please have her in some simply costumes.
Here's a brief history lesson: The Ptolemy's were Macedonian and Caucasians. The fact that this reality is a problem for some people speaks more about *their* racism than anything else. 2000+ years ago, Egypt was already a shadow of it's former self. The Arabs that live their now have a very tenuous connection to the Ancient Egyptians... they're ethnically Arab, with little remaining of that ancient greatness.
Get over yourselves and stop trying to lay claim to Egypt as an 'African' civilization. You'd be just as correct saying that the Persians or Babylonians were black African civilizations. They weren't... and you'd be just as wrong. Idiots. The next thing you'll try to say is that Rap music started in Egypt...
This is absolutely ridiculous!!!
I AM EGYPTIAN
...egyptians aren't black AT ALLL. we're not black...we characterized as caucasians!!!
this is yet ANOTHER ignorant american article
But what's wrong with having olive skin and be characterized as black Peter? Is it better to be called white with olive skin? Is a bit silly isn't? I think whether Halley Berry or Angelina Jolie play Cleopatra is fine.
Yep, this just confirms the sorry state of education in this country. Browsing the posts, it is obvious that only a minority of people are aware that Cleopatra was Greek, the last of the Ptolemaic rulers who inherited Egypt from Alexander the Great. Cleopatra was not African, and a woman of color would not be appropriate to portray her. Let's learn us some history, folks.
People seriously need read history books!!! Cleopatra's family were descendents of Ptomely, a Greek and one of Alexander the Great's generals. Her family members married other family members making them in-breeders, like the royal House of Habsburg. Therefore, Cleopatra did not look African but Greek. By the way, I am African American and I have no problem with Angelina playing Cleopatra.
I love how African Americans think that because Egypt is in Africa that Egyptians were black.
I don't care her playing Cleopatra. I heard Oliver Stone is directing a bio-drama about Rosa Parks and he wrote the part for Angelina. I can't wait for that!
Cleo was of Greek descent so she should have light skin. What about t he Queen of Sheba? Was she a woman of color?
Saying the caucasian Cleopatra was a black African would be like saying the Spanish conquistadores were actually Native Americans!
Learn your history. After the death of Alexander the Great, Ptolemy was given rule of Egypt. Cleopatra was of Greek descent. Pharaohs married within their own families to keep the blood lines pure. Cleopatra would most likely have been light skinned.
Joile is a pretty woman,but I dont feel she'd be right for the part. I'm a Blk woman and I am a little tired of white women playing this part. Whats wrong with latina's playing the part? Put a little color in the part why dont ya?
According to ancient rules of beautiful, Cleopatra needs to be a little fat. Angelina Jolie is too skinny for a rich woman in the old days with lots of servants.
Have any of you seen the bust of cleaopatra. She is always depicted to have a very Romanesque look about her. Long neck and roman nose. They all look European to me. I am not sure which ones were made while she was alive and possibly posed for the sculpture. But AJ should pull it off just fine. More than likely Cleopatra looked very much EU since those families liked to keep it in the family so to speak.
I don't understand why jolie wouldn't play Cleopatra well. Jolie is a great actress and a great beauty plus she has a unique exotic look (Iroquois indian descent) and does not sport the typical american white look. Her complexion is not ivory. If you want to be realistic hire an egyptian. I see no difference in hiring Jolie vs and african neither being egyptian. I figure finding a woman who can act really well who is famous for her beauty and is not a blueyed blonde might not be so easy to find. I think they made a great choice. They could have chose an actress who is younger and very beautiful but not one who can act so well..
This is ludicrous. Cleopatra was a GREEK person, from a line of Greek Pharaohs. She wasn't Egyptian. She came from the line of the Ptolemaic dynasty.
Learn your history before you go crying about things you flippin' morons!!!!
White ppl are really the devil
wow if thats not the racist thing that ive ever heard in my life. Cleo. WAS WHITE, read about her and maybe you will know the truth. So many think that she was african, but thats how people were raised. they were raised that every legend on the face of this earth were of one ethinicity only. The oompa loompas were ORANGE and nobody says anything bad about them!!
The problem is that peole get their history lesson from Hollywood! I am waitng for the day when they dare make a film about Jesus with an dark skinned actor
I think it's just as dumb for anyone on this board to say that because a person is described as nonEgyptian that it means they are a person of color. If they are a person of color, and described as having color, then to not described them as their historical description is deception. Just because a person isn't black doesn't mean their caucasian.
And to make it seem that a person is getting upset over nothing is the farthest from the truth. It's not about getting mad, it's about fabricating what's correct. Don't describe Ghengis Khan with the same features of Charlamaine, and then just pass it of as someone being upset playing the race card because someone pointed out the inaccuracey. The truth has everything to do with it. And since none of us living right now were born during those acients times to have seen these people and tell about it, then really no one can really say 100% what was what, regardless of what degree or data you've read. Just to be fair.
So sure, maybe Angie J. is fair skin, but she's not Greek. And it's absolutely absurd that some of you don't get the basic concept that there are plenty of capable actors and actresses that are Greek, that could fit this role. But to accurately replicate histroy, it makes just as much sense to put someone Greek playing Cleopatra, even though she was part Egyptian, as it does having someone Native American to play Sitting Bull. Or someone of latino descent playing Che Guevera or Don Quijote.
To not get that, then you don't get it; which is why the only thing some of you can equate it to for your mental reasoning, is playing the race card.
You guys are arguing theory and outdated history. Here's the truth... http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article5908494.ece
THIS Is the truth: The ancient poet Horace (65-8 B.C.) wrote that Cleopatra was as white as alabaster and another ancient writer Lucan wrote of “Cleopatra's white breasts were revealed by the fabric of Sidon... close-woven by the shuttle of the Seres.” So many ancient sources that talk about Cleopatra being white and yet we still have idiots around here trying to incorrectly claim she was some 'black/mixed' woman. Ludicrous. Cleopatra was a WHITE woman get over it.
Halle Barry would be perfect~
Again..for the third time..cleo was greek. Sheesh, the number of stupid people on this board is staggering. That being said I agree with other posters about her age. Angeline is a striking woman, but she is too old for the part. Cleo was in her late teens when she met Caesar
Idnorance of history is one of my pet peeves, Cleopatra was not black, she was a Ptolomy. That means she was Greek. Also, while I think Angelina is one of the most beautiful women in the world she is too tall and thin to be Cleopatra. Cleopatra was short and fat. Of course Hollywood would never cast a chubby woman in the role, they would be better off casting Jennifer Aniston since she's Greek.
My real problem is that I don't think any recognizable actor or actress should be picked for such a part because the movie becomes Angelina Jolie as Cleopatra rather than a movie about Cleopatra and any sort of artistic/historic seriousness just goes flying out the window. I know I won't be paying money to go see it in the theater. At best, it will be a renter because when a movie is centered around such a high price star, it becomes distorted to show off the star, not the character. Besides there are so few in Hollywood that can truly become a part, and Jolie is absolutely not one of them.
Backlash? seriously I think they over dramatize things here. Angelina would be perfect for the role since the concept of royalty back then kind of matches celebrity power now. Moreover, Cleppatra had striking beauty which Jolie does (of course the concept of beauty was different then.) Lastly, having dark skin and wavy hair can come from many ethnic bacgrounds. I say get those tan spray guns and dark contacts and start shooting tomorrow!
who gives two rips what color anyones skin is? jeezuz . . . can none of you can see past the ethnicity of this person or that? whatever . . . it all seems unimportant to me, in the scheme of things, that is.
I heard that MGM is filming the Oprah Winfrey story, starring Diane Keaton as Oprah. She might be a little old, but other than that I have no problem with it. Any comments? Candyland? You ok with that?
hey kids, i love angie and think she's a great actress, without peer. but i have to agree that the role of cleopatera should go to someone from the east, you have to remember that 2000 years ago people were not that mixed , and i think a dark skined cleo would do better than another white skined woman trying to play an Egytian. i'm sure there are Egyptian actresses, or at least a few from the middle east that would be capable. sorry ang, but if you get the role, i for one wont go see it.
If she has the right personality for the role then who cares?
Cleopatra was neither black nor was she even Egyptian. She was Macedonian. Being a Ptolemy she was descended from one of Alexander the Greats right hand men. Ptolemy was awarded the land of Egypt to rule by Alexander. In addition it is true that there are many North Africans (Eqyptians included) that are considered olive skinned, almost Meditteranean in appearance not that this should matter.
JOLIE? Yewww!
Cleopatra was Greek, not Egyptian. Her ancestor, the first Ptolemy, acquired Egypt when the empire of the deceased Alexander the Great was divided among his chief generals.
Thank god I am not the only one who knows TRUE history!!!!! 🙂
Angelina is TOO OLD to play Cleopatra!! In any event, I say BOYCOTT CALIFORNIA and all its fruits and nuts!! Particularly Holly-weird. If we all donated two weekends' worth of the cost of a movie ticket, maybe we could begin helping our American brothers and sisters.
I am Egyptain, and my skin is white. My son and daughter's also have white skin. I am offended when I hear that I am not dark enough to be Egyptain. There is a spectrum of skin color in Egypt, from white to very dark brown (tan). I do not agree with Jolie being cast as Egyptain, but nor do I agree with Halle Barry in the same role.
You may be a "realegyptian" now but you were NOT an ORIGINAL Egyptian.
Btw, even Egyptians today come in colors darker than "tan". LMAO
I don't want to get too crazy here, but what if the actress was neither black nor white, but rather EGYPTIAN?
Cleo was not of African blood. GET OVER IT "black americans". Just because you want something to be true, doesn't make it true.
That writer from Essence.com should have done her homework... she would have realized that Cleopatra wasn't black, nor was she actually Egyptian by blood.
And on top of that, Egyptians aren't black either!
Hilarious article! Cleopatra, black? Black Greeks? A black Ptolemy? Seriously?! If they're going for historical accuracy, what they need is an ugly Cleopatra. Nose like a beak is usually how she's described.
People people...pick up a book!! Cleopatra was of the GREEK ptolemy family. How many stupid americans are there???? Don't all raise your hands at once, you'll tilt the planet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Wow! Its very interesting to see all of the uneducated comments. I fault CNN, the editor and writer for this article. Many whites and people who do not claim any ancestry from Africa enjoy telling part of the story concering Cleopatra. Its true that Cleopatra, the daughter of Pharaoh Ptolemy XII, possess features of a Roman. However, the famous Cleopatra statues that everyones sees in the musems or on the history channel of a beautiful colored woman is in fact, Cleopatra the third. This Queen of Egypt was born before Cleopatra VII (Roman descent). Folks, in Egyptian history, there have been a total of 7 Cleopatras. All but one of the Cleopatra queens were of color and had a direct link to african heritage The great think about today's science, DNA of hair samples and bone fragments tell the entire story about one's physical presences.
OMG another ignorant person and with a Greek name to boot. Socrates, Cleopatra the III had ZERO African lineage and she was no 'woman of color'. She was of the Ptolemaic bloodline as ALL Cleopatras were. She was born in 161 BC to Ptolemy VI and Cleopatra II of Egypt both of them were of GREEK-MACEDONIAN lineage. And stop lying, there are no DNA hair samples and bone fragments that show any of the Cleopatras being 'woman of color'. They were all white of Greek-Macedonian origins.
Why not Halle Berry... She's mixed (blacks and whites can be ignorantly happy) but she will have the bronze skin tone of a true Egyptian and can bring in the crowd. WIth Hugh Jackman as Mark Anthony... Tired of Jolie and Brad, Mr and Mrs Smith, need I say more but I will, it was LAME.
Essence.com has to get real because they are missing the point. It is not about race or acting prowess....it is all about dollars baby...Angelina Jolie sells!!! Stop whining and get a clue kids.
i read a post from an egyptian who seemed to feel that because she is a modern-day egyptian that she automatically has expertise on the subject. that would be like any one of us modern-day americans assuming expertise of ancient americans, native americans, because we now occupy this country. egypt did not become predominantly arabic until the spread of islam in the seventh century. someone else said that the egyptians were caucasians. be aware that modern-day ethiopians and somalies are considered caucasians too. it is a term based on bone structure which unfortunately leaves a large margin of error because east africans have what are called caucasian features, even though they probably had those features before a white person ever walked this planet. the ancient egyptians represented themselves as a deep reddish brown people which is the precise color of most black people in that part of the world. most black people even in africa are not literally black in color. for other references to the egyptians as a people - not the arabs that are presently there - look at diodorus' library of history and as i mentioned earlier herodotus' the histories. these men were eye witnesses.
This irritates me and has LONG been a pet peeve of mine since people complain about this over and over it seems. Cleopatra was NOT African!!!! She was GREEK. She was from the Ptolemy line that inherited Egypt after Alexander the Greats death. She wouldn't be BLACK. She'd appear GREEK. Which is still more ethnic than any actress that has portrayed her....at least complain with some historical accuracy! Gr.
Cleopatra was part of the Ptolemy dynasty. The Ptolemies were Greeks / Macedonians who ruled Egypt after Alexander the Great died and his empire fell apart. Cleopatra was not of Egyptian or African. Like pretty much all the Ptolemies, Cleopatra was of Greek / Macedonian descent. She was the Queen of Egypt in roughly the same way that Queen Victoria was the Empress of India even though she was English rather than Indian. Monarchs often rule over (and sometimes live in) parts of the world that they and their families don't come from.
If it matters that Cleopatra be portrayed "authentically" in terms of her race / ethnicity, then you would get someone of Greek or Macedonian ancestry. On the other hand, if you just want Cleopatra to be played "authentically" in terms of being someone who is strikingly beautiful (as Cleopatra was reputed to be), then you just choose someone strikingly beautiful and don't care what their race / ethnicity is.
Leave it up to the liberal racists in our country to turn this into a racial issue. It's pretty sad that we can't have a single day without liberals trying to stoke racial tensions. It all makes me sad.
Jolie playing Cleopatra isn't a big stretch for her. She's a great actress. However, I would prefer to see Shakira instead.
Cleopatra was Greek, Jennifer Aniston should play her !!!!!!!
Ben Kingsley's real name is Krishna Bhanji. You should know what you're talking about before you post.
Anyone would be better than Elizabeth Taylor.
Neither Angelina nor an African American really fit the bill. How about Aishwarya Rai–maybe a little problem with her Hindi accent, but she has the right skin color and is completely gorgeous. That's my vote.
It should go to an Egyptian or other Mesopotamian woman, not white or black. My favorite Cleopatra is France Nuyen of Star Trek lore.
people! PLEOPLE! PLEASE!!! dont you think the world its polluted and messed up enough to be WORRYING about who's white and who's black? COME ON!!! WHO CARES??> WHO CARES???? please!!!! while you guys are building an ulcer in your stomachs and trying to argue and wonder why she is bla bla bla bla.......
guess what? ANGELINA its at home with her kids and husband and $$$$$ not caring about ANY!! ANY!!! of your sorry SORRY opinions!!! get a life, please WATCH SOCCER!!!! DO SOMETHING...GET ON A DIET... ENJOY LIFE>>> DONT YOU SEE?? the way things are going? you dont know when its the next tsunami, or earthquake, or someone important in your life dying, who knows what else we as humans are we gonna end up doing to each-other.....just look at the gulf of mexico!!!! our backyard how messed up and polluted that is... people PLEASE worry about the ground where you walk instead,,,,, ITS SO MUCH MUCH MUCH MORE IMPORTANT!
why can't we all
get along, and worry about things that are worth to worry about.. 😀
This is more important:
ANGELINA JOLIE UNHCR GOODWILL AMBASSADOR ' WORLD REFUGEE DAY 2010' MESSAGE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSIRofchiDo&feature=player_embedded
She looks like she needs to eat.
She looks totally greek to me – just like Cleopatra – I don't see what the problem is.
CNN has been race-baiting consistently... Yesterday, there was this non-story about Obama being, or not being an Angry Black Man. Today, this... Race to the bottom, where FOX News is waiting for them. How sad.
Hey guys, for all of you people that think the part of Cleopatra should go to a person of color. The only validity to that argument is if the that person is Arabic. Egypt is the center of the Muslim world and during her time people look now like they did then.....they didn't look like people from Ethiopia. If the legend of Cleo's beauty is as accurate as history portrays her than Jolie, with a little bit of makeup, would perfectly fit the beauty and and exotic looks of the ancient Ruler.
Are you freaking kidding me. She would be an awesome Cleopatra. She is perfect for that role. This is a joke, and I never post on stuff like this.
Alot of people making assumptions based on what the racial makeup of the area is now as opposed to 2000 years ago. Judging by her bloodline, primarily Greek in heritage, and by judging the limited artwork that were of her time period (I only know a small handful of images confirmed to be from her time) I would have to say she was Olive skinned with dark hair and dark eyes, there's a time specific sculputre of her from Roman Times that are pretty western in features and there are two time period specific "paintings" of her and one painted bust which reflect her as olive skinned or light brown in coloration. She was, quite frankly, one of the mediterranean peoples, neither white nor black.
I laugh@ all the comments of people getting so angry about the race of someone they have never met all that we know about this woman is what was told to us even with all the research it is still not firsthand knowledge it was told to you by somone who it was told to and so on and so forth does it really matter who plays the part even movies that are based on true stories these days are so inflated to be "MORE INTERESTING" so at the end of the day all that matters is she does a good job, isnt that why they act to be recognized for there talent ???????
One thing that hasn't been addressed is the new book this movie is supposed to be based upon. It's not even out yet. Will it have new revalations about Cleopatra? Why would the author specifically say Angelina was the best for the part?
In addition it seems like many people seem to have narrowminded views about the African continent. Since when were there only black ( as we know today) people in Africa? Soon some of you will want Denzel Washington to play DF Malan, Prime Minister of South Africa because he was African not realizing that he was a white segregationist.
One last thing, Angelina is stunning and all you haters need to check yourselves. I laugh at the other actresses mentioned to do this. Angelina features are more ethnic than those actresses! It's astonishing. If Angelina let her skin do what it wants to do, she can get very very very dark. Just look at some pictures when she took a break from doing the goth mama look.She's doing the smart thing now by staying away from the sun . Liz Taylor was and is still stunning. One thing she did was give the impression that Cleopatra was beautiful. Looking at the images all over, theres no way in heck that Cleo was 1/10th the beauty of Liz or Angelina.
Wow– there's alot of revisionist histoy going on here...I get it, so Africans are no longer Africans but "sub-saharan blacks" who only lived in the middle of the continent and made no contribution at all to Egypt or anyplace else?
Just because a continent has some diversity (i.e. Europe) doesn't mean we should strip the original peoples of their land association. We say "Eurpoean" and immediately think white, not black, arab, etc. although those groups are there.
Cleopatra was Greek!!!!
I am so sad for my country after reading through this. There are real blogs discussing real issues with < 1% the comments and passion as an argument about the merits of a movie actress, her skin tone, the likely tone of skin which rotted thousands of years ago, the "he was black too" re-writing of history, the "no he wasn't" indignant rebuttals.
Go hug your kids. Help your fellow man. Work hard for your family. Worship (or not) as you see fit. Write a book, plant a tree, lend your neighbor a socket wrench... do some damn thing that is useful and meaningful.
How ignorant... Cleopatra was the daughter of General Ptolemy, who was 100% Macedonian. So was her mother. Cleopatra was not Egyptian at all, had no Egyptian blood, and was 100 per cent Macedonian (close to Greek.) I think, those in the Black community that are not so sure, should read some history books, and involve themselves in matters that are more pertinent.
Whats next? John Wayne as Genghis Khan? ? Oh wait he did....
Cleopatera wasn't black at all. She was the daughter of Macedonian patricians! Last time I checked, Macedonia was in northern Greece!
Exactly... Sometimes I think I live in a parallel Universe, where people don't read any books.
Actually, while Cleopatra was technically of Greek descent, her Greek ancestors are from centuries previous. Historical records suggest that she was not, in fact, fully white, but most likely of mixed race heritage. Back during her day, the distinctions we give to the continents were not as pronounced, so Egypt was held to be an interesting conflation of Africa and Asia. What we've done in contemporary performances of Cleopatra, particularly in film, is appropriated Cleopatra as exoticized, but "white," when she was most likely, and often acknowledged from ancient Greek writers to today to be, a woman of color. Having Angelina Jolie play the role of Cleopatra is feeding again into the ignorant stereotype of an exoticized white woman playing who was for centuries considered, yes, an African Queen. Cleopatra herself identified as being Egyptian, not Greek. I think it would be extraordinarily progressive and a refreshing, and more accurate, change to see Cleopatra played by a woman of color.
Actually Jennifer Park Cleopatra and the Ptolemies were fully Greek, they didn't intermix outside their Greek Macedonian royal lineage. There is absolutely no credible evidence to support any mixed ethnicity of Cleopatra. This bogus mixed ethnicity claim is a modern invention. Ancient sources and evidence do not support any such claim. The ancient poet Horace (65-8 B.C.) wrote that Cleopatra was as white as alabaster and another ancient writer Lucan wrote of “Cleopatra's white breasts were revealed by the fabric of Sidon... close-woven by the shuttle of the Seres.” So many ancient sources that talk about Cleopatra being white and yet we still have idiots around here trying to incorrectly claim she was some 'black/mixed' woman. Ludicrous.
Sometimes personality outweighs the exterior. She might be Cleo's reincarnation.......
Ok, it's just a movie. Were not voting her into office or anything. So big deal. This is alot of hoopla over a little bit of entertainment. Do people really spend that much of their own time watching tv and movies? And do they really put that much of themselves into the whole process of a movie? And they are really whining about who is or is not going to be in it? Ya, ok, right. It's 2 hours of your life you'll never get back.
O, and.....
-Lola
-Look on your map. Egypt is in AFRICA. That makes them African.
Egypt is ON the continent of Africa. The same as Canada is ON the North America Continent, I however am not Canadian and they are not American. Hmmm, go figure?
Now, I can't believe I wasted time here. I'll never get it back :<
Jolie is no "white" if you consider the canadian indians (natives) she also descends from.
She is an ACTRESS. Actresses ACT in a movie. Its not REAL people. Wake up. -_-
Let us not confuse sub-Saharan blacks with Egyptians. A black woman portraying Cleopatra would be as "wrong" as a white woman. Plus, they will cast whomever they think will "sell" the best. They don't care about historical accuracy. If they did, a lot of movies would go unwatched. I know, I know, just another reason for some blacks to cry "racism."
Uhhh, Robert, regarding "an Englishman playing Gandhi," Ben Kingsley was born Krishna Pandit Bhanji. Half Indian, born in England. His grandfather came from the same state in India that Gandhi did.
I blame the education system. There are Black Americans who believe Cleopatra and Hannibal were black, and then there are White Americans who believe that dinosaurs coexisted to humans.
There's nothing quite like ignorance leading to a misplaced accusation of racism. With racism being so much based on ignorance, it's really rather a sad irony.
It's right up there with someone correcting another's grammar while using incorrect grammar, themselves, only with the provocativeness of race thrown in.
people, jolie is not "white" as you define it, not if we consider the canadian indians (natives) from whom she also descends...
first of all Cleopatra was egyptain, Egypt historically is tied to the middle east, also the are apart of the arab speaking world. The country is tied more into the arab world then the African so if you want to make an argument maybe Cleopatra should be played by an arab actress
Not true, Mike. You are thinking in terms of recent (AD) history and not ancient (BC) history. Study the hieroglyphics and the timeline of Egytian history and you'll see.
A black actor probably SHOULD be cast to portray a Nubian king, such as Tefnakht, but a black actress SHOULD NOT be cast to portray Cleopatra, descendant of the (often fair-skinned, light-haired, blue-eyed) Macedonian (present-day Bulgaria) Greek Alexander the Great's incestuous Ptolemaic progeny. Afrocentric scholarship makes some interesting points, but the watered-down, popular insistence that a European foreign imperial ruler of Egypt be depicted as an indigenous African is completely ignorant and historically worthless.
Cleopatra wasn't "Black" and she wasn't even "Egyptian"...
She was Macedonian, "homies"...
And, let's not forget Angelina Jolie played Alexander's mother, so she's already "Fit" to play a Macedonian queen....
Gawdz.
These postings are all over the place....... in any event we have cleared up the color of Cleopatra, now to the movie. These remakes are 99 % a disappointment, I don't even know why the movie studio's bother – most original films stick to the historic content.... the remakes usually are adapted to today's mentality.... People 2200 years ago didn't think the way we do today. I don't really care if Angelina will star in it or Charleze Theron.... I doubt that it will be nearly as good a movie as the original MGM.
There will be a lot of special effects, the historic content will be skewed and very little good acting.
Hasn't this movie been done before. How can they make it different. Anyway wasn't Cleo 17 when she died or very young? One movie I won't see.
I think this girl should play Cleopatra. http://www.sanamstudios.com Or atleast get to dance in the movie.
Ridiculous to portray Cleopatra as black. There would have been a reference in the writings of the time...of which there are many. Also, Cleopatra comes from the Ptolemy dynasty, which was known to be very inbred...and Greek!
why do black pple even care she is of white descendent, cleopatra is white i dont care if she lived in africa
What's wrong with Angelina playing Cleopatra? She got the looks and the features, as well as the talent.
Yes, some people needs to read history.
Cleopatra was part Greek. The Egyptians were north African, but were certainly not black. The later "black" Pharaohs presided over an Egypt that was a shell of its former self. They were like locusts stripping an already dying field clean.
Jerry, no she would not have been swarthy in color, the ancient Greeks where light – blonde, it is mostly after the Ottoman invasion that Greeks and other people's of the Balkans were mixed with Asians people because a large percentage were converted and married Turks, also don't forget the practice of Prima Nocta.
Cleopatra was whatever...okay...that's fine but Angelina Jolie playing her? this chick is just not a good actress. Her boobs played Laura Croft. She did a black face movie playing the wife of Daniel Pearl (sorry folks I forgot) but she never has really impressed me. She's all lips and boobs.
I couldn't even watch "Alexander" as her accent was all over the place. She needs to stick with what she does best-shoot guns and play a bad girl type. Stop with this madness.
I believe Angelina would play a good Cleopatra. Yes, Cleopatra was an African ruler and yes, the country she ruled is in Africa but that does not mean her skin color is black. Being a history major and a Black woman I have learned that skin color and label does not have to match.
Basic History Lesson:
Cleopatra was from the Ptolemaic dynasty that ruled Egypt. The Ptolemies were all descendants of Ptolemy I, a Macedonian general of Alexander the Great. The Hellenistic rulers of Egypt did not intermarry with the local population, so Cleopatra was of Greek (Macedonian) ancestry-NOT EGYPTIAN. This whole discussion is ridiculous.
They should get Rachel Weisz from "The Mummy" to play Ole' Queen Cleo... Shes beautiful, of color (somewhat), and to me looks Egyptian to a certain extent. I think she portrayed an Egyptian princess well in The Mummy, and i think she would do an awesome job again as Queen Cleopatra.
I can't believe they spoke of the size of her lips and stereotypes all African Americans.... even if it was another African American that did it.
But it should be an African to play an African.
Hey, since everyone is pointing out that Cleopatra was Greek, might I suggest an actress of Greek descent? What about Jennifer Aniston? : D LOL!
I didn't read the posts, however, for those who think that Cleopatra should be a woman of color, Cleopatra was of European extraction, she was the descendant of the Ptolemy dynasty who were Greeks from Makedonia. People read history......... It is not as North Americans say an excuse to justify certain actions.
I am an Italian and Cleopatria was from Italian descedent not African. Get your history straight. Stop palying the race card everytime you turn around, insecure insecure insecure. Why should Cleo be black? She was not black, again read your history before open your cards. I guess Lawrence of Arabia was black too? PLEASE GIVE US A BREAK! Angelina would make a beautiful Cleo and she will be perfect for the role. Is all about the race card!
You should get your facts straight too.
Cleopatra was GREEK and not Italian..read a history book first!!!!
Last I checked, Egypt is in AFRICA and ancient egypt never had a European looking woman as royalty. Then again, historical accuracy? Who cares about that!
OMG and you use a GREEK name like Zues? Check again because not only did Egypt have European rulers but Cleopatra was one of them and she was as pale as they get. Also ancient Africans didn't have Greek names like CLEOPTRA. Word the the ignorant.
First the cow getting punched in the face, now this. The ignorant racist black people are coming out of the woodwork this week in numbers to post on the internet!
I say racist because to you it's okay to assault an officer if he's white and you're black, I say ignorant because you have no clue of the history of your own continent of origin, and assume Cleopatra should be portrayed as black.
Please use your broadband wisely, and sign up for night school or something, instead of making yourselves look worse than you already do in the eyes of the world.
Now I am amused. So, calling a woman a cow isn't ignorant? Suggesting that a male cop punching her in the face instead of using the appropriate police tactics is okay? My, my aren't you angry? It sounds like you may be the racist one here buddy. The funny thing to me is how many of you have posted regarding Cleo's Greek heritage. How many times do you think it needs to be repeated. The truth of the matter is no one really knows. Having been of Greek descent doesn’t mean she looked Greek. She more than likely looked like what some call a mutt. I just had to respond to your post because it really was ironic that you wanted to point out someone else's ignorance.
HELL YEAH a black woman should play her! I saw her on TV and she looked African and headwrap and all that.
Wait... Who're we talking about? Not Miss Cleo?
Oh...
Do you think Jolie is the ideal Queen of the Nile?
Who really cares?
It is clear that Clorpatra was a woman of color. Why is this role not being offered to an actress of color?
It's clear someone didn't receive a diploma, of any sorts.
She was greek. Below is a link should you wish to educate yourself. I'm sure it was a wasted effort on my part but I tried at least.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleopatra_VII
Yuck!
uh... yeah... Cleopatra wasn't Egyptian... did the person writing this article think to remind people that not everyone from an African country is black. Why aren't more Egyptians mad? Why is this even in the news? AHHHHH and I read it!!!
I do believe she at least had some Greek in her blood. I know the matter isn't important to many people, but it bothers me that Hollywood can't use people of the right descent. If she was of Egyptian blood, then a black person probably wouldn't be appropriate, either. But this isn't the case. I know it's better for a film to use a more famous actor, but I don't give a damn about big names myself. I rarely watch movies with these types of actors. Maybe I'd consider it more if it had a no-name Grecian. I will probably pass. Which is a shame because it's some kind of historical film, and I enjoy history. But I guess Jolie is attractive, and looking at her face again, maybe she'll do a good job. I haven't seen her in costume, so I can't really say yet.
Blacks that are demanding Cleopatra be portrayed by a black actress clearly need to learn how to read and then apply that knowledge to history. Cleopatra was of GREEK descent.
Cleopatra is/was BLACK!!!!!!!
No, Cleopatra was NOT black. She was definitely a tan woman, but not black. Angelina fits the role perfectly. She may have to get just a tad more tan, but I think that the company made the right decision.
A woman of color...geeze...okay...how about that actress that played 'Precious,' then we could hold it in South Central Los Angeles instead of Egypt...rolls eyes
Actually, Cleopatra wasn't Egyptian by descent. Her bloodlines aren't from racial Egyptians. Unfortunately, if you trace her possible blood lines, she was most likely Caucasian. SHE was out of place in her time and where she was from.
Angelina would be an excellent Cleopatra. Cleopatra was beautiful, sensual, captivating, had the ability to captivate and entrance a Caesar, the ruler of the World, mystify, capture, hold, love, entice, a man,. a nation, the world. Who else but Angelina Jolie could play the role. No one can match her. For Caesar, I would say someone older, someone regal, like Anthony Hopkins. For Mark Anthony, I don't want anyone handsome. I want someone I hate, for all of his pomposity. I want Russell Crow, the conceited Bastxrd. He is the only one who can match Angelina on the screen. Anyone else would fade in the background, even her beautifully handsome husband.
Jolie as Cleopatra? Pitt as Anthony? HAHA!!!
I did the math, and if you take the budget from the 1963 version and updated it to 2010 dollars, they have around $320 million to spend. Would I go see it? NO!!
Why shouldn´t she? This isn´t The History Channel or a BBC historic re-enacted miniseries. It´s Hollywood. At it´s worse, probably. Stop complaining and get over it.
I was once assigned to do an illustration of Cleopatra.
I did some research. I quote from the historical reference..."She was black and ugly".
I reported this to the art director and asked what he wanted me to do.
He said..."Make her look like Elizabeth Taylor".
Clearly unlikely. Her mother was Cleopatra V (greek) and her father was Auletes (greek, from Macedon). Ugly, yes, if you've seen any of the busts that survive of her, and her enormous nose. But instead of using historical visual evidence of her features, you found this "history book" that in describes her as "black and ugly". ROFL. The "Dr" in your name just adds to the humor here.
There were, and remain to this day, a variety of castes in the middle east. Egypt, India, Iran (then, known as Persia), and the countries throughout the Mediterranean, all had a variety of skin tones in each of those countries. Cleopatra could NOT have been a black woman however, because she was of the Ptolemy family and they came from GREECE. People people...read abit before you start passing judgment.
everyone is upset about this but jolie already pulled this crap with "a mighty heart" where she literally wore black face to portray mariane pearl, since she's always trying to convince us she is a citizen of the world you would think she would be more sensitive to the lack of quality roles for women of color. but she is an actor and they universally aren't that bright and are self-absorbed, so not a shock.
I can't say I was aware of Cleo's Greek heritage. All I have to say on the matter is that even if Cleo truly was of Egyptian descent, casting a black person would be a terrible mistake. The Egyptian society was (and unfortunately still is today) rather intolerant towards people of colour, they were mostly enslaved and rarely held any position of power in the ancient realm. There are plenty of native darker Egyptians, but those of the north (where I believe most of the pharaoh's ancestry lies if my memory serves me right here) are pale. I myself am a blue-eyed, brownhaired, lightly tanned Egyptian. Although my eyecolour is a bit of an exception, the rest of my appearance certainly is not.
Its my understanding that cleopatra was not black and had royal ties to greece. I am not saying she was white but i am sure she was not black. Not that it matters as this is just a dumb movie.
Angelina, maybe you should be Halle Berry's lady in waiting since Billy Bob Thornton had to have a taste of her and she has a Best Actress Oscar, as opposed to your best supporting actress oscar.
Angelina, you're tired and over and go raise your 20 children, with your powerless lover.
The nerve!!! Next they will want a black man to play Michael Jackson! He died whiter than BO
Funny to debate all of this history. I think she would be a great actress for the role if they asked me.
Maybe someone else would make another choice, it's all good. If you don't want her, you can produce your own
version with the actress of your choice.
Wouldn't it be nice if one day we reach the point where the color of the skin doesn't matter or come up for discussion ?
Ain't gonna happen. Race is way more than skin color, which you've either not noticed or don't want to admit.
Getting beyond race is like getting beyond reality.
She doesn't have freckles. Aniston has a lot of those ugly things. Brad couldn't see her face without makeup, so he dumped her for Angelena.
Cleopatra with a valley girl twang. Yuk.
All of you are sadly mistaken! Cleopatra wasn't a real person! She was actually mad up by a group of sheep herders on a late night stroll. Tom Cruise was actually the last Samari and Pres Obama isn't in office , Optimus Prime from the transformers movies is! If you keep looking to hollywood for the facts, these are the types of things hollywood will tell you! Everybody , get a life, get off your tweets and your blogs and write congress about the oil spill and we won't tolerate BPs inaction! Gee wiz!
This was a silly argument made by someone who should have done their research. If you're going to raised holy heck about something, make sure you know what you're talking about. Didn't the author of the piece have a computer? How hard would it have been to Google Cleopatra's lineage??? I agree with the person who said the movie is for ENTERTAINMENT, not to be historically factual. So what's the beef? The author put her foot in it by not doing research, now she and her supporters sound ignorant. Cleopatra was NOT African, she was Macedonian; GREEK. The Macedonian Empire ruled Egypt at the time. That doesn't mean she had an ounce of Egyptian blood.
Cleopatra, never! I would guess a perfect fit would be Miss Piggy!
Really? Cleopatra African? Apparently some people don't read their history books. Cleopatra was a Ptoloemy of Macedonian descent. How does this make her black? And Angelina playing Cleo? Pleeeeaaaasseeee.. psh..
cleopatra was greek and they are not black. Sorry blacks, get another famous person to try to hijack
johnny –
Black people are not trying to hijack a famous person – even noted historians cannot agree if Cleopatra had any African descent. You could of express your opinion without trying to score a "dig" it would of had more merit.
Cleopatra was a member of the Ptolemaic dynasty, a GREEK dynasty that ruled Egypt. Cleopatra was of white/Caucasian descent.
Before arguing for or against Jolie playing an "Egyptian" Cleopatra, perhaps a quick read in history should be in order. There are plenty of web sites that argue over this same issue. Even if you are sure that you know the answer, you might want to just take a quick look at a historical site. Don't get me wrong, I know she was an Egyptian Citizen, born and raised in Egypt. LEGALLY she was Egyptian, It's kinda like how I'm an American Citizen born and raised here, just like my mother, even though racially we are of Mexican Descent.
If they pick Brat Pitt for Mark Antony, it would be hilarious if they picked Jennfer Aniston for Cleo. She actually IS of Greek descent, and it would really annoy Jolie, who kind of deserves to be annoyed for what she did to Aniston....and for completely ruining Brad Pitt. He used to look so healthy when he was with Jenn, and now he looks like a beaten down shell of a man, addicted to some kind of substance. Jolie has drained him, just like she did her previous "love" (I boubt she even knows the meaning of love...men are just a means to get more famous as far as she is concerned.)
lol. For those using a map to prove it, yes, Egypt is in the continent of Africa, but it is really more Mediterranean in climate and history, and for crying out loud its right next door to Saudi Arabia. Look at Europe for example, they are European but someone from northern Sweden is going to look much different from someone from Italy. Someone from historical Egypt (and of Greek descent) is going to look different from someone descended from Tanzania. Egyptians actually tend to look more Arabic in nature than Black. This is going to sound crazy to some of you, but not everyone in Africa is black, especially northern Africa. And Egypt was around way before it was decided that it would be part of an area called 'Africa'. lol, Angelina Jolie is probably a little lighter than Cleo would have been, but Cleo would have looked Greek!
cleopatra is a state of mind
cleopatra was hot
so is jolie
jolie is already cleopatra
The queen was only 17. Wake up!
Of course the people complaining wouldn't know that Cleopatra was essentially Greek and descended from the Ptolomies! This is all written in books! What an easily surmountable but sad condition. Fix our schools: they need to stop churning out nitwits.
Cleopatra was NOT black. Read the book "Not Out of Africa: How 'Afrocentrism' Became An Excuse To Teach Myth As History" by a real Eqyptologist, Mary Lefkowitz. Egyptian royalty married within the family.
Who is she? Isn't she married to Don Mattingly?
First off – CLEOPATRA CAME INTO POWER AT THE AGE OF 17. An OLD woman like Angelina would play her grandmother back in the day. Educated people are acutley aware of Cleopatra having killed her siblings as she helded her throne. She was a teen queen.
Find a young black exotic accress to fill these shoes. One who can pass for 17! Thanks.
It will FLOP with Angelina.
Why do people (like YOU candyland) have to pull the "racist" card when someone disagrees with you? So sick of that. Grow up, and find a new "buzzword", that one is way overused, and tired.
I never knew cleopatra was African.. oh wait, she's not. She's Eqyptian! I never once thought her of African American, I think most people think of her as maybe brown skinned since she's from Egypt.. not black. I don't understand the big deal anyway. I'm part african american and I'm not having a fit that she's might play the role. IT'S A MOVIE! It'll be in and popular for a couple of months and then fade away. It doesn't really matter!
Cleopatra was NOT Eygptian, she was Greek. So much for education in teh USA. She was the descendant of Ptolomy who was a Macedonian general under Alexander the Great (macedonians are very fair skinned Greeks) – who conquered Egypt. Ptolomy become Pharaoh after the death of Alexander... there were no Egyptians who were married into the Hellenistic Pharaohs – therefore Cleopatra was light skinned – probably more so than Jolie!
Well, morally they are very similar . . . both slept their way up the ladder. Brad might want to watch his asp!
As an Egyptian, I think Angelina Jolie would be a perfect pick. Frankly, only Sub-Saharan Africa is what people consider "black." The countries north of the sahara, including Egypt, Morocco, Tunisia, Algeria, Libbya, all look middle eastern and have features of middle easterns. We are sick and tired of "black african-americans" trying to claim Egypt for themselves, just because their ancestors came from the same continent. Tthat's like saying Canadians and Puerto-Ricans are all the same people because they are both from North America. Really, Essence magazine, get a life and some education to back up your comments.
How ignorant, Egyptian person. So the dark people only lived in the middle of the Africa? Stop trying to carve up and take the African continent. Your people are recent arrivals in Egyptian history.
I think Jennifer Aniston would be a better choice.
cast Kristen Schaal as Cleo–there is actually a resemblance. And then all you anal historians can have your true likeness. But then you'll have to look at Kristen Schaal for two hours.
And that's two hours you'll never get back. lol.
get a black woman to play the part. for once, be historically accurate. mel gibson had a chance to be historically accurate with his stupid Passion movie, and he failed miserably in not casting someone who would have actually resembled the historical jesus.
HELL YES
Tell me, for I must know, is ignorance bliss?
Dozens of people have already stated fact, and linked to it for you to read yourself, but instead you post this and make yourself look like an ignorant uneducated sod. Well, I guess it fits you wouldn't read the comments trying to correct you first.
There should be a setting in all browsers for ignorant black people who post in racially charged threads. I'm thinking popups that say "Do you really know this?" and "Have you done any research whatsoever regarding what you are about to say?". It would do wonders for your image.
Please tell me you weren't educated at Butler and STILL after all these posts think it would be historically accurate to cast a black woman as Cleopatra. Butler is such a fine school.
I couldn't care less who plays this part or even if they make this movie. What I am concerned about are the individuals on here who refuse to acknowledge what little information (and it truly is limited) we have in regards to Cleopatra. What can be confirmed is that she was from a Macedonian Greek family that preferred marrying relatives to secure the bloodline. Can this argument end? Please? If people on here are so concerned about historical accuracy, don't get your info from TV get it from historians.
Umm. You do know cleopatra wasn't black right? So why would you want a black actress playing her. Makes no sense to me.
You know who looks a lot like Cleopatra's image on the coin? Kristen Schaal.
They should close this controversy by casting HER.
Then will you historical literalists be satisfied?!
Angelina Jolie? Who cares if she is the right colour. She cannot act. Period. She looks very masculine too.
Cleopatra was not black, and not even an Arab Egyptian. Cleopatra was from the Greek Ptolomy Family. How did this make the front page of CNN????????????????????????????????????????????
Angelina Jolie looks like a real-life kewpie doll. She's no Elizabeth Taylor. Can we all get over her? The emperor has no clothes.
Read a book. Cleopatra was fair skinned. Having a woman of color playing her would be fine, but it would not be historically accurate.
Seriously? Who the hell cares. People get so wrapped up and offended about nothing. Let Whoppi play the role for all I care. It's a freaking movie.
Guess its ok to be racist if you are not white?
To whoever is against this on the basis of color, make your own movie and cast who you want as it. Until than it's no concern to you who they cast lol
Looking at her history and all the historical depictions she looks white to me. Don't see the issue
Try googling Cleopatra. You will find she was of Greek, not Roman, descent. She identified with her father and her Greek (white) ancestors. These facts are apparently not taught in the public schools.
Thank you everyone, I stand corrected. I've learned a lot here today.
I have to agree with the disgruntled here. Egyptians have always been brown-skiinned people–always. Because of its location on the planet, both Arabian and African people have populated it from the beginning.
There are so many truly beautiful brown actresses who could play this part regally. Also, I think the movie will bomb if Angelina Jolie gets the part since so many of us don't have a lot of respect for her.
As a teacher in urban schools for years, I have witnessed firsthand the attempt to make Cleopatra an African woman of color. I blame this mistake on the lack of knowledge that many people have with regard to history and the seemingly inability or simple disregard to find out the truth about a woman who was of Greek heritage since her family came from the Ptolmey line. The first Ptolmey of this line was one of Alexander the Great's generals who divided the empire up into sections upon the death of Alexander. Cleopatra was a direct relation to General Ptolmey and therefore was of Greek origin or, to be even more correct, of Macedonian origin. Having an African-American actress play this part might make a lot of people very happy but it would be historically inaccurate and work to perpetuate this myth which seems, unfortunately, to get stronger by the day. Let's keep history truthful.
Er, Cleopatra was actually of Greek ethnicity...people better read their history books...ethnic Greeks are not black but caucasian. Just people wanting to complain and cry 'racism' and look like fools in the process.
Cleopatra (as HIStory states) had to have been Roman Greek for two reasons (1) Romans where cleverly stealing from Africa during this time and (2) Hollywood won't ever make movies about the real AFRICAN QUEENS!
Egyptians are all races and all colors. Jolie is a great actress and casting her will mean the film gets watched, period.
I work with Egyptians, and they are both light and dark.
Let Halle Berry play the role of an African Queen. Case solved.
How is this Angelina Jolene's fault? If she is offered the role why should she turn it down. It's got nothing to do with how full her lips are or how many dark skinned children she has! It's about casting, acting, and what brings people to the box office which is $$$$$. It's ALL about the money and she's a big star that will bring in the $$$$. If you're going to BLAME someone, blame the director or whoever is doing the casting.
Cleopatra was NOT Egyptian. She was Macedonian/Greek. She was the descendant of one of Alexander the Great's generals. Additionally, most historians agree that she was not "pretty." In fact, she was slight and had a large nose. Her appeal was her intelligence and charisma. Because of that, Angelina is not a great choice as she is TOO pretty.
cleopatra was not black. she was ptolemaic, of greek origin. the egyptians however before that time were for the most part black. one only need read the histories by herodotus, the rawllinson translation, book two, chapters 103 – 106 in which he tries to figure out the origins of a mysterious group of people living on the black sea in europe. he says, "there can be no doubt that the colchians are an egyptian race... my own conjectures were founded, first on the fact that they are black skinned and have wooly hair."
OMG ! ! ! I can't believe the level of ignorance being displayed.
Does anyone know where Cleopatra was from? *wink*
Egypt was taken over by the Arabs. Thats why there are Arabs there now. Most of the land origninally controlled by blacks in Africa where either invaded or conquered by Arabs or Europeans. Study the first Dynasties of Egypt. The hieroglyphics and features depict an African culture of african people. White supremacy has always tryed to deny the evidence. You can fool some but not everybody, especially a black man who has studied ancient cultures and civilization. Greek history is ancient Egyptian history. Or for better words Kemetic knowledge.
Brush up on your Egyptian History, especially Old Kingdom.
Here is a simple solution that will make everyone happy. They should recast with Charlize Theron. Cleopatra was white. Charlize is African American. She's also an Oscar winning actress and hot as heck. Boom, everyone gets what they want.
This just in! Naomi Campbell, Thierry Henry, Lou Bega & Chiwetel Ejiofor are all white!
After all, last time I checked France, Germany, Italy & the UK were all in EUROPE.
(In response to the knee-jerk un-educated fools that keep squealing that "Egypt is in AFRICA!")
OMG ! ! ! I can't believe the level of ignorance going on here.
The fact is he history book are all lies. If you look at the paintings and the statues from that time period, all of the people have African features. The history books have always lied, when is comes to Africa. She was BLACK just like the rest of her people. I love Angelina as an actress, but come on. We have come so far as a people, there is no reason to take steps back. The reason this role should be played by an women of color is because Cleo was a women of color. When you state this is not a race issue, you are sadly wrong. Color is an issue everyday for people of color, because we are always reminded that we are not White. She was NOT Caucasian!!! That is the lie they want u to believe. They changed history so it was OK to enslave people of color for hundreds of years.
What are you some crazy conspiracy theorist? Facts are facts and coins made in her likeness which can't be faked, are obviously of caucasian features.
Sorry, but you have been misinformed.
You speak the truth. I think we are being outblogged here. I cannot even get my comments posted. What history book are these people reading from. I am tired of the lies out there, that is why the hieroglyphics lasted so long. It wanted to give evidence, because they knew the cover up that would take place hundreds of years later
Where ever do you get your info?
Libra this is exactly why many black Americans are viewed as uneducated, its with moronic comments like yours. Cleopatra was no black nOR an African. She was white European as her Greek name clearly shows her to be. Not many ancient Africans had Greek names like Cleopatra you know.
LET THE LIES FLOW. HOLLYWOOD'S FULL OF FAKENESS ANYWAY. BEYONCE WOULD'VE BEEN PERFECT FOR THIS ROLE AND BRAD PITT STILL AS MARK ANTHONY.
How come my post didn't go thru
Cleopatra's young brother was trying to merry her.......yea they were white most likely from Alabama.
I would like to remind some of the so-called bookworms of all colors on this board that Africans from the south did rule over Egypt at one point as well Africans from the North. Artifacts (statues, wall paintings, etc) confirm this. I should know because I've actually been to Egypt as well as many other African countries. THERE ARE EGYPTIANS EVEN TODAY THAT WOULD BE CONSIDERED WHITE OR BLACK!! This means that half of you don't know what you’re talking about, and the other half of you know even less that the first half. There are people on this board trying to argue in both directions in order to establish grounds for an argument of superiority or to refute inferiority when no one here has ancestors tied to Egypt, White American or Black Americans. There where European countries that were light years behind Egypt as well as African countries so what is the point? There were Sub-Saharan African and European countries just as advanced as well. Countries that developed significant cultures in our early history were lucky, nothing more. If your population was surrounded by fertile land, disease and plague free, and natural resources without a harsh climate you won! As for you clowns using your discount card at Barnes & Noble as some sort of point to prove superior intelligence, remember this; before there were lies and b.s. not to be believed on the internet, there was b.s. not to be believed in books....get over yourselves.
That is all fine and well...but the argument isn't about black egyptians having ruled or not...it is about Cleopatra being of greek heritage. I personally would never deny the black influence and participation of Egyptian culture...just as I would never claim Cleopatra was anything but Greek...
Stop re-writing history people...
Man, colored folks have just GOT TO GET OVER BEING BLACK. NOBODY CARES. Grow up
Cleopatra was of African descent because her mother was a black woman. Therefore, a black woman should play the role.
Charles Toussaint, you are 100% WRONG. Cleopatra's mother was no African woman and she was not BLACK. her mother belonged to the Ptolemaic bloodline there fore cleopatra had ZERO African black bloodline and she was NOT black. African American seriously need to go educate themselves based upon their ignorant comments on this subject matter.
HER MOTHER WAS BLACK??? Are you kidding me? Her mother was Cleopatra the fifth Trifena which according to historians was either sister or first cousin to Cleopatra's father , Ptolemy the fifteenth Avlitis. Also at the British Museum there is a statue of her head which depicts her as Caucasian. Get over it. Yes it's a shame that all over the world, through the history of mankind there has been oppression and foreihn rule and foreign occupation, whatever you wanna call it. It is however a fact. Yes Egyptians are africans but they weren't always ruled by their own.
They darken actor Gerard Depardieu to play Alexander Dumas in a film called "L' Autre Dumas". Dumas is the author of "The Three Musketeers", "The Count of Monte Cristo", and "The Man Behind The Iron Mask". Mr. Dumas was a French writer of African descent and he had dark skin.
Cleopatra was Greek in origin or what today is known to be Greek.
They darken actor Gerard Depardieu to play Alexander Dumas in a film called "L' Autre Dumas". Dumas is the author of "The Three Musketeers", "The Count of Monte Cristo", and "The Man Behind The Iron Mask". Mr. Dumas was a French writer of African descent and he had dark skin. So they cast Depardieu and painted his face dark and had him wear a fuzzy wig. Outrageous!!!!
The only way Black people will get to tell truth about their history is to start producing their own movies. Do you hear that Tyler Perry??? Stop waiting for mainstream hollywood to do and just go do it yourself.
How about we get Gabourey Sidibe to play the role? That'll keep blac...I mean, African Americans happy, Al ,Jesse people of size...blah, blah, blah.
the only race that has a true historically correct right to be miffed at this casting choice is the greeks. nia vardarlos as cleopatra? hmmmm....
Here we go again!! They darken actor Gerard Depardieu to play Alexander Dumas in a film called "L' Autre Dumas". Dumas is the author of "The Three Musketeers", "The Count of Monte Cristo", and "The Man Behind The Iron Mask". Mr. Dumas was a French writer of African descent and he had dark skin. So they cast Depardieu and painted his face dark and had him wear a fuzzy wig. Outrageous!!!! The only way Black people will get to tell truth about their history is to start producing their own movies. Do you hear that Tyler Perry??? Stop waiting for mainstream hollywood to do and just go do it yourself.
This is a joke, right? Jolie has no business playing Cleopatra who clearly was not of European descent. There may be light skinned people there now but there weren't at the time of Cleopatra.
Terry you need to go and get yourself an education. Cleopatra is a EUROPEAN GREEK name. so yes Cleopatra was not only European but during her life time there were light skinned people who were ruling Egypt given the fact Cleopatra belonged to the Greek tribe of Macedonians who were know to be very fair in color. Holy cow how stupid are you black African people. ?
Cleopatra was a Greek woman. She was not a native born African woman of color. Insisting a woman of color play the role is racist.
Hmm...like a chimpanzee playing Bush II?
Having watched the Discovery Channel's segment on Cleopatra, she was of mixed Grecian and Egyptian ancestry, which would preclude her from being a woman of color. Regardless, Angelina Jolie's talent and beauty would make her an ideal choice to portray on of history's most fascinating characters.
As an African American man I'm not going to attempt to be the spokesperson for my people (a role often filled by any given AA in any given setting) but let me just say that most of us really know she wasn't Sub Sah African and we don't care. @iactuallyread; that isn't true, Egypt was actually a blended state, with blended people, most very comparable to the genetic makeup of African Americans and Ethiopians. Sub-Saharan Africans (i.e. "black" Africans) did rule over Egypt for a time as well as Northern Africans (i.e. Arab or Caucasian Africans). The reason this is even an issue is simply because racism has done its best to disparage any sort of significant contributions Africans have contributed to our history (humans) as a whole. Our history has been stolen, destroyed or contributed to others over an over as recently as the 20th century (Elvis "The King of Rock & Roll"? c'mon). When the story starts with lies, this is what you get- arguing about history that isn't even relevant anymore.
I am from Middle East; and it always fascinates me to see how the American peoples argue of skin tone. As an arab and as a woman in Egypt many times, i would like to tell you we have every skin tone color there...olive, white as the snow, dark as black..please do some education for yourself, as for my opinion on this actress no i dont think so, but , I have never understood the Wests fascination with Cleoptra, she was not such beautiful woman, and whe was not known to be full blood arab, you can do this research on your computer...good luck and move on from skin tone...so stupid
Should we get Queen Latifah to play her??? Oh wait how about Lil kim...
I think Beyonce should play Cleopatra! Cleaopatra was half Macedonian and half Egyptian (Brown) mixed race, with father Ptolemy and an Egyptian Woman.
Oh great she going to come back from Egypt with another 87 adopted kids.
Wow, total fail. People obviously don't do their homework, as Cleopatra was not black. On top of that, a very large slice of african, and I mean native africans are not black. Basically 90% of northern africa is either arabic or leans strongly toward that distinction. However, given the new trend of being historically accurate. We now need to change the statue representing the raising of the flag on Iwo Jima back to reality. That is, 4 white men lifted that flag, not the seasame street melting pot they built that is a joke.
Cleopatra was the descendant of one of Alexander the Greats' four main generals who split up the empire after his death. Sooo .. Cleopatra was Macedonian. She was most likely not dark skinned. That said, who gives a darn what color the actress is?
Cleopatra wasn't black. She wasn't even Arab or a traditional North African Berber. The royal family of Egypt during this time was decended from Ptolemic Greeks, who conquored Egypt under the Greek Macedonian, Alexander the Great. Considering Angelina played Alexander's mother in Oliver Stone's 'Alexander' a few years ago, it makes perfect sense to take up a second role as a GREEK queen.
If, however, we were to become complete history nazis, the woman casted for Cleapatra should be a plain-looking Greek woman. Despite popular opinion, Cleo wasn't actually beautiful... rather ordinary...
So we should forget great acting and good plot and go with color and political correctness. Won't get my money.
Oh shut up. Liz Taylor played Cleopatra........and now So should Angelina.
Besides, the already have a Woman of Color in a starring role. She's married to Barack Hussein Obama.
To the NAACP, I say, shut up.
I see the rticle mentioned Mark Anthony as the lover of Cleopatra. Please note that should be Mark Antony, not Anthony.
Cleopatra is a woman of color. Not hollywood white! Yes we people of color come in different shades and figures with more than the nice full lips on some white girls. In those days, we had nothing other in film or TV. I won't waste my time or money on this farce.
I don't believe the white race understands that Black, Asian, Native American, Indian and Muslim women have alway felt unrecognized and very underrepresented in Hollywood. And it would bring more merit to this debate if each side for and against Anglie – would present their opinions/facts honestly without trying to score a "dig". For what I have read, no historian can conclusively pinpoint the skin pimentation of Cleopatra – so why not give a Black, Native Americian, Asian, Indian, or Muslim women a chance to act the part.
Give me a break – I suppose the critics will want the movie character to speak in the language/dialect that Cleopatra actually used.
By the way, why do all actors in Westerns and movies set long ago have perfect teeth? Why doesn't anyone speak out against that? Talk about historical inaccuracy.
Cleopatra's ancestors were Greek. Alexander the Great of Macedon and his entourage took over the place. The Ptotelmy Dynasty were known to inbreed to maintain royal bloodlines.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ptolemaic_dynasty
Common folks..........it's not like they're casting her for Rosa Parks. Next!!
Cleopatra was a Ptolemy, a Greek queen. She was not black. Can we get this through our heads and move on finally? Please?
Hooray for Hollywood! You can make people forget about serious issues going on in the world to squabble over who should portray a historical figure most only know about from previous Hollywood films. Doesn't really matter who portrays her; if they are a good actress, they will convince the audience. Yes, i could see Jolie doing a great job. I'd rather see the millions of dollars in production costs go to alleviate poverty or clean up the environment or something positive but movies provide money to folks who sometimes actually donate to good causes.
And another thing.. The Egyptians HATED THE BLACK NUBIANS.. They were Mortal enemies.. so why in the Hell would a Black Person be portraying Cleopatra Ptolemy???
I and the rest of you should know that egypt is of brown skinned people except cleo she was white, so get over it. i just hope that they will cast the rest of the people brown
Hello!
I understand your Concern about Blacks not playing the roles that they should in Movies.. BUT Cleopatra was not a TRUE Egyptian.. She was actually of Macedonian Blood.. her last name was Ptolemy.. she was the last decendent of the Ptolemy empire that came from the death of Alexander the Great.. so Angelina playing the role of Cleopatra is not really that far of a fetch,, seeing that she played Alexanders Mother in "Alexander".... Just Saying.. Thats why there are History Books...
Which history books are you talking about? – the ones that says, she may of had African/Egyptian bloodlines, or the ones that says she was 100% Greek. Even noted historians can't conclude she was 100% Greek.
whats wrong with Betty White?....she'd be great
When are we, as a society going to get away from treating people of different skin colors like their members of a different species? It's rather like Star Trek with Klingons talking about humans and Romulans. We need to move toward a color blind society where persons are treated as individuals rather than members of a group based on their skin color. None of this will end until that happens. It's sad that people can't understand this. It's a self perpetuating, evil cycle. Let anyone of any skin color audition for this role instead of reinforcing stereotypes.
Angelina Jolie has already won an Oscar. Girl interrupted (1999)
I don't think the white race understand that Black, Asians, Indian, Native Americans women feel slighted because – we do not feel recognized or represented in Hollywood. And the debate for and against Anglie would have more merit if both sides weren't in it for a " dig". For years it has been widespread that there was no conclusive evidence what Cleopatra's actual skin pigmentation looked like – so you can really go either way especially if Hollywood is presenting it.
Rosalind Harold, Cleopatra's skin tone only came into question in modern history. We have ancient depictions and descriptions of her skin tone being pale. The ancient poet Horace (65-8 B.C.) wrote that Cleopatra was as white as alabaster and another ancient writer Lucan wrote of “Cleopatra's white breasts were revealed by the fabric of Sidon... close-woven by the shuttle of the Seres.” So many ancient sources that talk about Cleopatra being white and yet we still have some around here trying to incorrectly claim she was some 'black/mixed' woman. Ludicrous.
OMG she looks like she's been rode hard and put away wet! She should look so good to get Cleopatra! If she gets it Brad will have paid for it. Lordy Lordy look who really looks 40! She's not much of an actress. I think we all know how she got her roles
I really could not care less.
History Lesson: Alexander the Great (Greek) took over Egypt. He built Alexandria, Egypt but soon after died in Babylon. When he died, Alexander's friend Ptolemy (Greek) became to leader of Egypt. Cleopatra comes from the Ptolemaic bloodline. She was Greek!
cleopatra was of greek descent. so why should she be played by a african-american
Cleopatra was Macedonian (a slavic people) and Jolie is part Slovak, another slavic people. So I do not see any issue with her playing the role of the tragic Queen. Even if she was part Greek, which may be the case, in either event she was of antiquated European ancestry, not African, as Eqyptians are.
As a person of African ancestry I wish black americans would get their facts straight. Cleopatra was descended from Macedonian stock. The Macedonians colonised Egypt and had simply maintained beliefs and artistical depictions for continuity with earlier Egyptian dynasties. And guess what Macedonians were not black. People need to just quit it.
Holy crap people she was WHITE, NOT BLACK. GET A CLUE.
I'm working on my thesis on Ptolemy and the Greeks and this page came up as the top page on Google!
I have been to Cairo, and seen thousands of Egyptians, and the vast majority have the appearance of a specialized variation on the Arabic racial group like many North Africans. There are certainly a few very dark skinned Egyptians, but it was not the norm by any means.
BTW Cleopatra absolutely had Egyptian blood, the Macedonians followed the standard practice of marrying the daughters of conquered leaders to give them blood ties to the ruling class, and this had been repeated many times by the time Cleopatra took 1/2 the throne.
Second Hieroglyphs are not pictures, they are symbolic picture writing, so you can not expect them to look like the people they are describing in other than a symbolic way, though I would surprised if there is not a picture of Cleopatra some where.
Incorrect, MuddyBuddy, Cleopatra did not have Egyptian blood because the Macedonians did not follow any suppose ' standard practice of marrying the daughters of conquered leaders'. All their records show they married other Greek-Macedonian royals and inbred among themselves. They didn't need to appease any native Egyptians, whom they kept at the lowest class citizens by the way. Ptolemy I is on record stating in fact that mixed race children would be an insult to European royal lineages like the Ptolemies. Let me know if you want his quote, I can pull it out for you.
egyptians were Black, until persian, greek, and romans took over.