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August 1st, 2008
11:37 AM ET
Are the Black Crowes 'Jealous' of 'Harder'?Did Gretchen Wilson rip off the Black Crowes? CMT reports that attorneys for the Robinson brothers’ band are coming after the "Redneck Woman" singer for copyright infringement. The Crowes’ point (or that of their attorneys): the Wilson song "Work Hard, Play Harder," used in a promo for TNT’s "Saving Grace," has some strong similarities to the Crowes’ "Jealous Again." (TNT, it should be noted, is a unit of Time Warner, as is CNN.) Wilson's label, Sony, had no comment to CNN on behalf of Wilson, but Pete Angelus, longtime manager of The Black Crowes, had this to say: "We find the musical verses of Wilson's song to be such an obvious example of copyright infringement that I expect all parties to reach a relatively quick resolution to avoid litigation." What do you think? Here are links to Wilson’s song and the Crowes’ 1990 tune. - Jennifer Wolfe, CNN Entertainment Supervising Producer |
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Next, suing for using the same color lipstick. Having same length hair ?
She had good movement, they did not. The jelousy reason.
black crowes lose, and look pathetic doing so. How can you claim ownership on chord progressions, and melody? I hear it, but how legally can you battle this? I will be interested to hear the details.
My last comment never got posted. Huh, wonder why? It wasn't particularly inflamatory – except to people that lift entire songs and change the lyrics (Mariah Carey, Rihanna, et al).
I think the Crowes have something here. I don't think they are being babies, and I'm sure they don't need the money. Some of the comments about the Crowes here are quite vitriolic. Pity, I think they are pretty talented.
Well, to each his own.
There is a song by the band Cake called Nugget. The Crowes should listen to it and heed its advice. Seriously, they are being babies. Thats a really common lick in blues songs. Most of them people even sing it the same way.
Copies of copies of copies.
What do you get?...a 3rd generation of noise called popular music.
Not a single new and original thought in either of the two so call "recording artists" or "talent".
And neither deserve another word.
Long Live Chuck Berry!
@ Christopher Lugo
The Black Crowes just released a new album "War Paint" this year, which they are currently supporting on a tour. Get your facts straight before you flap.
@ Scoots
If all you are interested in is hearing "the hits" buy the greatest hits CD and stay at home. Posers like you ruin a true fans experience of seeing a band they enjoy perform live.
A lot of you talk but have no idea regarding the music business and the sharing of lyrics, licks, melodies, etc... Many of those things are shared, with behind the scenes permission. If there was enough evidence to go after the Crowes for that song in relation to the Stones song, trust me, the Stones managment would have been all over it.
The bottom line that is 1000 wrongs don't make a right. "Everyone else is doing it" is an excuse you were supposed to not use after a mental age of 18 years old (which I wouldn't be surprised if many of you haven't hit yet).
Then many of you ask "who care?"...well, the Crowes do. Regardless of their reasoning (perhaps money? or simply desire to be credited for their music), the fact remains that they have every right to go after the stupid country singer.
Country music is an oxymoron anyway. Gimme some Willie, some Kenny, some Dolly, some Hank...feel free to throw 99% of the other country "singers" into the mass-media-hyped unskilled bucket of "talent".
Jeez folks, everyone borrows from everyone else in popular music, and no where is that more true than in blues and rock and roll. It's part of the evolution of music. Someone takes a little of this and a little of that, stirs their own spices into the mix and you have musical gumbo. The only difference now is that there's money involved. Maybe the members of Humble Pie should sue the Black Crowes for stealing their sound, because Steve Marriott and company were doing the strung out funky blues rock think before they did (think 30 Days In The Hole).
Sounds like the Crows are Jealous....and apparently broke!
Shoulda saved some of that cash, guys. The hits and good times don't last forever. Rock and Roll has chewed you up and spit you out.
Dragging another artist into court just because she's rocking while you string bean junkies are flopping? LAME
The Black Crowes should SUE HER ASS
"Country Artists" have always done this except for very few such as Johnny Cash. COuntry is about 10 years behind rock and pop and borrows heavily. Anyone remember in the mid-90's when country music discovered The Eagles and ripped them odd for about 5 straight years?
Most of you are very stupid. The reason the Black Crowes sound like the Rolling Stones is because they both use whats called open G tuning. But I could name you 10 other bands that used it well before the Stones. The Stones were just more famous. Also the Stones have been sued many a time over stealing riffs. So for the Stones fans trying to sound ticked off you need to read more about your band.
It happens but when its as blatant as Gretchens instance its pretty bad.
Also to the idiot that said the Crowes ripped off Redding they did a COVER of a Redding song so I imagine that would sound like Redding. Duh.
I was stunned when I saw the promo on TNT and immediately knew this was a Crowes rip-off!!!!! I am a long time Crowes fan and hope this is resolved quickly, IN THEIR FAVOR!
Isn't Gretchen Wilson old enough to remember that song anyway? It would seem like anyone who could remember it might have a hard time singing lyrics to a melody that was oddly familiar with a clear conscience; but I guess when you're out to make a buck you magically 'forget' that a similar tune exists.
I like both songs, but really the music behind the songs sound similar, but hey so what, it isnt all that great anyway. The black crows tend to use weak music and a great singer. And well little miss honky tonk uses sample sounds in all her songs anyway. And with all the revolving junk music out there it shouldn't come as a surprise things sound similar.
Country artists always steal songs from other rock and roll bands. Not only can they not sing they need to steal songs to look good. Gretchen absolutely stole this song. If nobody cannot hear the similarity then they need hearing aides. The Black Crowes will definitely come out on top.
Sounds like the Crowes are desperate for cash. When was the last time they even put out a song? They're just hoping for an out of court settlement to put some money in their pockets. JA original? you might want to go back and check some of the riffs from Chuck Berry, Buddy Holly and others from the 50's they all sound the same, so get over it
Wow. Man... she totally ripped them off...
Firstly, let me preface this by stating I'm a dyed in the wool rocker and not a fan of country and am somewhat involved in the music industry and have been for 30 years. There are no grounds for a suit here. While there is a similar pattern of musical style for how a short phrase is sung, there is no similarity in lyrics or repeated note for note imitating. If that was all it took for a suit to be legitimate, Rod Stewart and the Faces could have sued the Crowes ages ago for similarities between Stay With Me vs Jealous Again. The Black Crowes were never wildly successful for any length of time, although they did produce some very enjoyable music all based on other people's styles. Pathetic as it sounds, Gretchen Wilson who has had more hits than the Crowes will ever have, is now the victim of a bunch of greedy has beens who are trying to hold onto their career after squandering it on drugs and ego years ago.
such hostility... i think all the music today sounds the same so whose really ripping who off? All of you?
Well, I am songwriter myself. The verses are similar. .....but the part in question it's not considered "The Hook" – I think they would loose this in court actually.
The Hook is in the lyrics and the musical tag – "I work hard, I play harder" – If she changed up the verse melody a bit, I think it would still be a hit.
Sometimes something is in your consciousness pops out sometimes when you are writing. I doubt if it is a deliberate rip off. Rip off implies stolen.....I think they should let this one go. If she used the words Jealous or if they had an even remotely similar chorus, then maybe there is a case. MHO
If she wants to be super cool – she could give them a small piece of the copyright. I have seen more direct rip offs loose cases.
and the crowes never ripped off any song for Jealous Again
How about Faces – My Fault
http://www.imeem.com/casarin/music/Ez_JkVi4/faces_my_fault/
@ Dan Jones "I think the Crowes are just jealous… again."
LOL. Perfect!
Rascal Flatts does not rip off other rockers songs..they only do it for movie soundtracks and never try to claim them as their own song they know they are just doing a remake of the song for upcoming movies. Rascal Flatts is a great group and they create their own sound!
I guess Tom Petty better get on the Red Hot Chili Peppers because Dani California sounds nearly identical to Last Dance With Mary Jane.
GET OVER IT. This crap happens all the time and when it's YEARS apart, it's not a huge deal.
First of all, to Ron, who posted that music is not art, but a marketing scam, perhaps you should stop listening to the radio and watching TV. Viable music is still being made today, despite what you've (haven't) heard or read..
Second of all, all the posts stating that the hypocritical Crowes have stolen from the Allman Brothers, Led Zeppelin, Faces, {insert 70s jam/boogie/blues-rock band here} need to cease and desist. THOSE artists who you claimed the Crowes have ripped off, in turn, made millions ripping off black blues musicians. No Robert Johnson, no Led Zeppelin, Cream, {insert 70s jam/boogie/blues-rock band here}. Know Robert Johnson, know Led Zeppelin, Cream...well, you get the point.
I think the Crowes have a case.
Since there are no longer any chords or riffs available in rock or any other genre sampling seems to be the only way to re-invent the un-invented...I like her version better, however there is no doubt her band ripped off the Crowes...They should be musically talent and intelligent enough to have changed the song so it did not infringe upon the very wick of the other...This reminds me of the Verve's "Bittersweet Symphony" copyright infringement upon the Rolling Stones "Last Time"...Except the Verve got permission for an orchestral piece from the Stones Managment before they recorded and stilled got screwed by them in the end...Can't we all just get along? It's music for Christ's sake!!!
This is a waste of time and news clips. The Black Crowes are simply trying to cash in on someone else's success. The Black Crowes have clearly "borrowed" from other past songs and musicians. If they want to open Pandora's box, then they shouldn't be upset when others start to sue them.
what a joke! Its almost impossible today to put out a song that doesn't sound similar to a dozen other songs in other genres.
The Black Crowes should stop being greedy has-beens!!! If you want more money – make some more music – only good this time!!!
Did Gretchen Wilson rip off the Black Crowes? I do believe she did.
The Black Crowes have been ripping off the Rolling Stones for years! So they have no basis to claim originality over ANYTHING.
Bad, bad, redneck girl................you should be ashamed of yourself!
Goes to show, people will do anything to gain fame, even lie, cheat, and steal!
heh – well, the Black Crows ripped off their riff from the Rolling Stones - so maybe the stones should sue Gretchen Wilson...oh, and Aretha Franklin should sue Duffy for "Mercy" (trying singing "Chain of Fools" to Duffy's "Mercy" and you'll see what I mean)...and Led Zeppelin, the Beatles, and the Who should sue Lenny Kravits...Queen should sue The Darkness...want me to go on? Rock music is based on blues...blues only has 8 or 12 bars..something original is bound to sound like something else original.
By the way, I'm a huge Black Crows fan and Gretchen Wilson...eh, not so much...
There are only 12 notes, and everyone steals a melody now and then, even if by accident because of it. BUT the verses are just too close, and I'm sure the Crowes will win.
It would not be ripping the Crowes off if she would have credited them. Anyone remember a Garth Brooks song called the Fever. Everyone thought it was a blatant Aerosmith rip off, and it would have been if he hadn't given the group credit, which he did. Everyone can also assume if the roles were reversed, the corporate fat cats at GW's label would be all over the Crowes, trying to end their careers. Seems to me she is just another music industry puppet trying to make a fast buck. Ten years from now we won't even remember her because the "label" will have moved on to a younger, fresher face. Now, for those of you saying, but the Crowes have been done for years...I still listen to their music, and have seen them recently in concert, which was sold out by the way! A good rock n roll group is timeless. This pop country diva will fade away, just like other countless "artists" who have come before her.
The Black Crowes are jealous of my "Redneck Woman".
I agree with David on this one...
It should be a compliment to an artist and since the same people who listen to the Black Crows probably don't listen to Gretchen Wilson and vice versa no one would have known if there wasnt a law suit:-)
I don't see anyone bashing Chris Cornell for remaking Billy Jean and a lot of people have a lot to say about Michael Jackson.
give a listen to the Stones Tumbling Dice and guess where the Crowes "lifted the rif." Crowes, get over yourself. I've hated you since you spit in the face of a customer in a convenience store because you wanted to buy beer and it was after hours and you thought you should be treated special and he said what anybody should have said, "who the hell are you?"
I don't think it really matters. I'm sure that if you looked hard enough you could find several more songs that sound like that even before that black crowes did it. Not a whole lot of real original music out there today.
The first 4 measures are virtually identical. However, the groove is so ordinary that it could be any of a thousand songs. The chorus hook is totally different in both songs. That's the part that people will remember, not the verses. I believe that the Crowes do NOT have a case. Both songs are your basic "honky-tonk" groove. Neither song is very original.
The song is OBVIOUS plagiarism and I think the Robinson brothers and company have a case. That being said, I DO like the Gretchen Wilson song... I just might download it. Also, while I am a big fan of the Black Crowes MUSIC, I don't think much of them as people. They'll probably win the case, but I almost hope they don't.
An obvious, calculated publicity stunt.
How many sets of ears do you think this went past at Sony before being released? Do you honestly think that NOBODY said "You know, those 12 notes are going to raise some eyebrows, and we're probably going to have to write a check"
The publicity Sony expected and is getting for this Country "singer" who's career is on the downswing is obviously worth much more than the modest check they'll have to cut to a Rock band who's "career" was over 10 years ago.
The Robinsons are probably just looking for enough pot money to get them through the Summer.
BTW, Will The Black Crowes by trying to copyright single notes or chords next? This is just enough to be worth an album credit or a few bucks, but a few notes less and it would've made them look sad and pathetic.
its hard to sympathize with the Crowes since they are rip off artists themselves.
Dan Jones...you summed it up perfectly!
....if Gretchen Wilson can get sued, then, when will someone finally, please, go after Avril Lavigne and Sum 41 for being constant knock-off artists as well? Please for god's sake..
Hmm. The Gretchen Wilson tune is a rip off of the Black Crowes, but no one ever called the Crowes on their complete rip-off of the Stones sound.
The Black Crowes should win this hands down. These "country" stars need to come up with their own music. Music these days is dead with all the people stealing from other artists, not just playing a similar sounding song.
Case in point Sean Kingston stole from Ben E. King's "Stand By Me" for "Beautiful Girls" and Kid Rock, in his song "All Summer Long" or whatever it is, stole from Warren Zevon's "Werewolves of London" and Lynyrd Skynyrd's "Sweet Home Alabama" and he calls it his song. Be original.
A remake of a song is one thing but stealing a single element makes you a loser. There is a reason these songs were hits when they came out, they are timeless and all these so called artists steal major elements of these hits to create their own hit. Music right now is a mockery of what it once was.
It's funny reading these comments compared to the Yahoo board. Adults here who know this is a rip off and who the Crowes are. Kids on the story posted at Yahoo saying "who are the Crowes" and "the lyrics aren't even the same" Ah, stupid kids. Go Crowes!
"...all's fair in love, war and rock 'n' roll"
Some songwriters take steps to ensure that the melodies and chords in their head at the conception stage aren't residual of tunes they've previously heard. In some cases, they even play it for other people and then ask "have you heard this before?"
It's a fine line between something that's influential (a Beatlesque song from ELO, for instance) and downright thievery. But when it comes to this situation, Ms. Wilson didn't really 'word hard,' she (or the songwriter) just cued up the Crowes' 'Shake Your Money Maker' CD and borrowed heavily. Both the melody and chord structure of the verses are lifted directly from "Jealous Again."
There's been lots of examples of suits over "unconscious plagiarism". George Harrison on "My Sweet Lord" vs. Chiffons "He's So Fine". (Ironically, settlement went to Harrison's own manager, since he had bought rights to the song.) Huey Lewis vs. Ray Parker, as mentioned above. (It's always a real giveaway when the song is in the same key/rhythm!) The Rolling Stones "Has Anybody Seen My Baby?" vs. k.d. lang's "Constant Craving. (In that instance, Keith RIchards daughters pointed out the similarity and they gave k.d. a publishing credit up front to avoid any issues.) John Fogerty suit referenced above was his own former manager, who owned the rights to his CCR songs, trying to screw some more money out of him.
As Elvis Costello or Pete Townshend said, "Every composer is a magpie and a thief." However, if you realize it yourself, just give the person a credit or cut them in on the royalties. If you don't realize it, once it's pointed out to you, graciously give up the ducats. Most judges are pretty good at discerning honest mistakes from ripoffs, too, so if you really feel you're in the right, go to court and fight it out. Hip hop artists have shown the wisdom of this; they not only give credit on use of tracks, they ask permission first. Back in the day, when they didn't, they learned their lessons in court.
What a shame, she's actually one of the few Country Artists I can stomach to listen to. But let's face facts, the verse on that song are a direct rip off of the Black Crowes "Jealous Again".
If you can't tell by listening, it explains how you can like country in the first place.
Who cares? that'd be like a third generation xerox.
Sorry guys, of course I know the BC song. It's from back when they were good.
You made the point in the first sentence the Crowes are not the only ones to potentially sue over this type of thing so it is what it is she is responsible for two thing Copywrite infringment and selling an inferior product BYE YALL!!!!!!
The verse sounds like the Black Crows song but the rest of it sounds nothing like it. I'm a musician and certainly not tone deaf. It should be a compliment to the Black Crows.
Wow, you people are so critical of Country music. Why all the hate? Some of the best singer/songwriters have emerged from the country genre. Willie Nelson, Kris Kristofferson and Toby Keith are just a very tiny example of the most talented writers in the industry to this day. Country music is real and down to earth. There are some lame country artists out there but then again, there is good and bad in each genre. The Black Crowes were never anything special to begin with and probably 'sampled' half their songs from the songwriting collective of the world. After hundreds of years of music being composed and written, is there actually anything original that can be done anymore?
The Black Crowes career is itself a colossal act of plagiarism. The Dead, The Stones, Small Faces, even Country Joe and the Fish could all have good cause to persue them.
Fortunately for the Crowes, they've never been anything much more than a jumped-up bar band who wouldn't be desperate for money and attention, had they not ingested their earnings since 1989. Had they not slipped "under the RADAR for 20 years, they'd have been sued numerous times by now.
Time to take your lumps, boys.
Chris – I agree she ripped them off. You can't escape that so many songs, country or not, sound like songs we've already heard. Reading some of the other responses helps everyone's argument. Tomorrow, who will care? Most of the so-called pop artists don't write note 1 of their own songs. At least GW has written a few legitimate songs of her own as have the Crowes. All of them owe a debt to those before them. Some years from now some artist will undoubtedly credit either GW or the Crowes for their influences, then the whole debate starts over as to what is original and what isn't.
amy winehouse a trainwreck?...absolutley..but she's the best train wreck since judy garland...go amy!
BCcharles you obviously dont know what passion is and probobly have never performed any credible music as a musician but if you need to cloud the issue by marking me please tell me what that condition is called ROCK ON CROWES!!!!
the breakdown or the bridge that she uses sounds alot like the one in "Cocaine" by Eric Clapton.. Seems like alot of "borrowing" in that song... An open message to Gretchen Wilson: If you're going to borrow from somebody else's music, make sure the song is so obscure that no one will notice. Black Crowes and Eric Clapton are both major acts within the past 50 years....
Hex
Please do not make the mistake of labeling an entire musical genre "terrible" and its artists "pathetic", because of something Gretchen Wilson did. Cripes, she is more singer than artist. Ever heard of Willie Nelson? How many times do you think this immensely talented American music original was ripped-off, copied and covered? There are plenty examples of mediocre artists in every genre of American music – including good old ROCK 'N' ROLL. Quick note to: Chris Currens – Have you been emotionally damaged in some way by country music? I mean yikes! It's OK to have an opinion, but fervor like yours is generally only exhibited by maniacal dictators and religious zealots...
Anyone saying that this is not copyright infringement is probably tone-deaf.
Music is not art. It is a money making machine disguised as art. As far as Country music goes, gag me with a pitch fork! It's not country, it's pop with a hideous twang! Country is Buck Owens, Hank Williams Jr. and Sr., Patsy Cline, Merle Haggard, Hank Snow, George Jones, tammy wynette, Grandpa Jones (Louis Marshall), etc,.........
there's a big difference between a cover and a rip off. and not by a long shot do all artists write their own material. but if you're going to cover a song and record it on an album, you have to get permission from the record label or artist or whoever owns the rights to the song. I've heard the songs, its pretty clear that the intro and verses are rip offs, but the chorus is different. RHCP did the same thing on their most recent album with a Tom Petty song. Don't remember what it was, but it was the same deal, clearly a rip off. Nothing wrong with doing a cover, but pawning off someone else's music as your own is weak
And Hard to Handle? The Crowes didnt rip that song off and name it something else so TRY AGAIN
No anger here bud just emphasis on the truth,you know as a semmingly intelligent person that she ripped them off it is clear Johnny is dead Merle is wherever and still great but even the great songs they have written have been tarnished by the ones who have come after, it must be a shock to most country music fans that FINALLY some of us especially artist real artist have had enough!!!
Are you serious? If this is copyright infringement them I think Mozart may have a case against most artists on the 20th and 21st century. Get over yourselves Black Crowes!
Yeah, so what, verses are similar, mention days of the week. The meaning is completely different. The Crows should treat this as a compliment. I'm sure they didn't invent the 3 chord progression.
"Musicians typically borrow from each other" is not a valid argument. At the very least, you need permission and usually some form of payment may be required. Considering, I think she should pay punitive damages – every dollar and cent she made off that song.
Consider how you would feel if I took what I wanted from you without asking. We call this theft and it is illegal. READ – ILLEGAL. Stay away from my home you heathens 🙂
Many people feel they can make a name for their self off the work of others. (check out the wordscraper/scrabulous fellows – I cannot believe people actually argue on their behalf). Try being original, and if you cannot do that consider doing something else.
The Crowes are a very lackluster band that in their years have made no meaningful contribution to music. Country music as a whole is garbage. The Crowes got ripped off but so what? That would be like ripping off the formula for New Coke, it wouldn't gain you anything! The Crowes can't get attention by putting out good music like, John Mellencamp, Judas Priest or Journey, so they hope this will help them. Country music performers aren't smart enough to actually write songs, they are just stage props for their agents and labels so Wilson probably doesn't know what's goin on.
I'm not sure what Crowes songs have been alleged to be ripoffs of the Allmans, but with respect to Zeppelin and Otis (I assume you're referring to the album they recorded with Jimmy Page and to "Hard to Handle"), those were COVERS. The difference being, the Crowes didn't claim to have written those songs – they gave credit to the original songwriters. They weren't simply performing someone else's material and trying to pass it off as their own.
Wow, such anger. Well, Cash did a brilliant cover of a Trent Rezner tune before his death that was accepted in all circles of music. And he still wasn't considered a sell out or unoriginal. In fact, Willie Nelson still writes songs for other artists, continues to be original and keeps a great deal of integrity and respect among all genres. I do acknowledge country music has not had much originality in recent years nor am I a fan or defender of such a genre. The Crowes are still a great band, however, they don't corner the music world on rock, blues or southern-tinged songs as they write and arrange. Are they original, not all the time. Take a look at the original author of Hard to Handle, the Crowes break through hit...Otis Redding.
While yes, the is quite similar, if not exact in some areas of the song, Groups/people have been "Ripping off" music from the past for decades. Hell, i would be surprised if they them selves hadn't "borrowed" parts of other people's songs.
there are a lot of comments from people who don't understand copyright infringement as it pertains to music. i agree, blues-based music (which includes rock and country and some r&b) all "borrow" certain elements of the blues dating further back than most of us have been alive. that's why you can't sue someone for simply cutting a 12-bar blues song. but this Gretchen Wilson song does fall under the umbrella of copyright infringement because of its stark similarity to many of the main components that comprise the Crowes song. straight up, this is copyright infringement. i don't care if the Crowes sue Wilson or not or if anyone likes or dislikes any of them. it's still copyright infringement.
...and I know ev'ry melody to ev'ry black crowes song...hahahaha!!!!
While the Black Crowes are fairly derivative, Gretchen definitely ripped off the vocal melody in the verse. Funny thing is – if you do a search for her images – it really looks like she might have been a man at some point. Can anyone confirm this?
It's not the same. Similar melody, different chord progression. Crows need to put down hooka, wake up and dance. It's only modern county but I like it. The cats from nashville these days are rockin! Just enjoy it! I saw the Crows last year and was not impressed with the obscure twenty minute jams they apparently thought people might recognize as being a song. No Jelous Again, no Angels, no Hard to handle. I'd rather hear a ripped off song than get ripped off for another 50 bucks by the Crows!
Okay, rock stole from country and the blues. The Black Crowes did a good job of sounding like Rod Stewart. This one sounds like that one and so on. So what! The issue I see is, not acknowledging at least the inspiration of the original. Let's face it, there are a finite number of chords and notes, making the duplication of music very possible. Copying words is still plagerism, and credit should be given where credit is due.
Question: Who has writing credits on Wilson's song?
I don't know how Gretchen managed to ruin a great song like Jealous Again, but her cover of it is TERRIBLE.
When are the Stones gonna sue the Crowes? Then Chuck Berry should sue the Stones. Then Louis Jordan and Carl Hogan can sue Chuck Berry. Oooo Weee! We got some real litigation now! Whoa! Gonna turn some poor lawyers into rich men!
The Black Crows obviously have a copy right issue here. Anyone who has ever listend to classic British bands such as Spooky Tooth or The Faces should realize that the Black Crows themselves are not adverse to copying someone elses sound (and look). ( No disrespect meant to one of the great, all time American rock bands!!)
Just another example of someone trying to make an easy buck cryin' copywrite infringement. Grow Up Man!!
Johnny Cash And Merle Haggard no kidding sherlock that WAS THE LAST TIME Country music had any integrity after thier career peak it was downhill from there.
What, did the Black Crowes run out of money for incense and weed?
I can't believe Black Crowes are complaining bout Gretchen when they stole their song from us. Jealous Again was ripped from Tumbling Dice.
The first time I saw that commercial, I was sure I was hearing the Black Crowes until she started singing. When that happens...you know the song is TOO similar.
Yes but you have had to go back HOW MANY YEARS FOR THAT EXAMPLE you know WHO THEY ARE and SO DO WE!!!!!
It's not exactly identical, but listen to the Rolling Stone's "Tumbling Dice" then listen to the Black Crowes' "Jealous Again", especially the verses. The basic blues structure is there in both songs, at least to my ears.
I suppose the issue with these infringement lawsuits has to do with confusion in the marketplace. A young music fan who has never heard of either Gretchen Wilson or the Black Crowes might hear GW's song first and assume she's the original artist. The Black Crowes worked hard to create a distinctive tune and performance sound, but in theory GW would benefit in terms of future sales and fan base.
In truth, the only real money making option left to the musicians themselves is live touring, so even if the judge rules in favor of the Black Crowes, the label would get most of the income from album sales. This would be a wake-up for new artists who borrow too heavily from the past, but it's not like there's room for that much variety in certain genres like the blues. In my opinion, all blues musicians owe serious money to Robert Johnson, anyway.
Who cares? There were alot better when they were an R.E.M. cover band
When I first heard the commercial I immediatly thought of the Black Crows "Jealous Again" and how alike they sounded. I thought maybe the Black Crows got soft on us sold out their rights to the likes of TV shows as well as "Pamper's" or "Bounty"... jeeze, they really ripped off their song.
Well, there is a certain similarity in the melody of the verse, and both songs are in the same key, but overall I don't think that it meets the legal standard of "substantial similarity". I mean, if you go and do a little search you can probably find a lot of other songs that have similar melodies (Rod Stewart, Rolling Stones). And the similarity is just in the verse, not in the chorus, and the theme of the songs is very different. So overall, while I have sympathy for the Black Crows, I don't think it'll hold up in court.
As a songwriter who NOBODY knows, I can tell you that even the least known of us try to be super-conscious of re-writing something that's already popular for just that very reason. But famous, pop songs with good hooks and melodies stick in our heads. That's the POINT of writing a catchy # 1 song).
As has been noted, there's only so many rhtyhms, only so many keys, and only so many chord progressions in mainstream pop or rock music. Within the course of thousands of songs being written and/or recorded daily, or dozens being written by any given individual artist, sometimes a duplicate is bound to come along. Do the songs sound the same? Yes. But is it intentional? I doubt it. The Crowes tune is just too famous for someone to intentionally cop it that close. And I'm not particularly a fan of either artist. I just understand the liklihood of writing similar-sounding songs if you're going for a certain simple groove. No one jumps all over blues artists for writing song after song with this progression: E A E B A E.....
and yeah, it's hand not to love the Stones. Maybe certain artist we'll allow this kind of thing from. But not Wilson.
I did a report in high school and found a credible source that indicated that there has not been an original eight bars of music since the days of Mozart and Beethoven.
The music industry is full of remakes and sound alikes, why should this one be so controversial?
um, anyone ever hear "tumbling dice" by one of those old bands that perfected the art of appropriating other artists work?
G wilson should just give the crowes some $$ so they can go get the good stuff.
Si, She copied their song..she should have paid royalities and given them credit.
I like Gretchen Wilson too. Its too bad.
oh thats Springsteen's Radio Nowhere
I don't see it. I'm sure most of you are more musically inclined than I am, but that being the case, I'm probably more representative of the rest of America (and, more importantly, any judge that might hear a motion to dismiss this case).
Look...attorneys suck period! But what sucks more is when you have intellectual property that gets tampered with and skewed by pro tools producers. She is at the right age to have been heavily influenced by the Crowes...so it is a blatant homage to Chris Robinson. Too much of this is hapening today. Recycled music and Frankenstein sessions.
OK, Chris Currens. If you want to see a country artist or two with integrity and without apathy, look up Johnny Cash or Merle Haggard some time. Two very original artists that had cross over appeal without selling out.
I just listened to the song to see what the hub bub is about and give me a break. The song is lame. A sample of it may sound like one part of the Black Crowes but its pretty much different. What next, Tommy Tutone gonna sue Bruce Springstein for his new song that sounds like 867-5309
The Black Crowes haven't recorded an original riff themselves. From their clothes to there songs, they took their image and sound from the likes of the Faces, Stones, and Rod Stewart (who borrowed from the Blues singers before them).
What's next? Maybe Run DMC should drop a claim against every rapper for sounding exactly the same!
Wow, if that was unintentional then I am speechless. Its the same song!
More than likely most people who listen to country have never even heard the Black Crowes, so the song is "new" to them. I mean honestly, Black Crowes, you made money off your record in the 90s and 10 years later a song sound likes yours, big deal, I make up new lyrics to old songs all the time, its called evolution. And really isn't being a musician about making music? Not trying to nickel and dime everyone? My advice is go put out a new a record or go play back-up for this Gretchen chick...
The Crowes haven't ripped off anyone at any time. There's a big difference between playing music that shares the influences and styles of other artists, which virtually every rock band excluding the Beatles can be tagged with, and just putting new lyrics over someone else's song. Whenever you hear someone say they don't make great rock music anymore, just remember that the Black Crowes are!
Go get her and her rip-off team, Chris & Rich!
It's one thing to do a tune in the same vein or spirit of another band, particularly if the former band is a fan or was inspired by the latter. Buddy Holly inspired the Beatles, Chuck Berry inspired the Stones, Buddy Guy inspired Hendrix and Clapton, etc.
But when this is such a blatent note-for-note use of a song? WRONG!
If this woman ran out of ideas on her own, and used The Black Crowes for her inspiration, then she should have done an outright cover of "Jealous Again", put her country take on the established original track, BUT give the Robinsons as song writers and the Crowes as a band their due credit.
WOW! I figured it would at least be open to interpretation, but that's pretty obviously a blatant rip-off. It's OK to be inspired by someone else's work, but you can't just create verses that sound exactly like another song, but with different words. For everyone saying, "It happens all the time,"–well, not like that, it doesn't. The Vanilla Ice/Queen comparison someone else mentioned is a good one, and might be the last time stealing someone else's song was that obvious.
I don't know who Gretchen Wilson is, but that's lame. Write your own songs.
total ripoff.. but hey,, that's television, don't watch it much myself, it's formulated to dumb America down, works pretty good too
Black Crowes don't rip off anybody. They pay tribute often by covering great artitst. They didn't wrote Hard To Handle, but it made them famous. But they didn't take writing credit for it either. Their own music is as original as it gets. They are the modern day Zeppelin and Allman Brothers. And yes musicians have always held influence from the past, but "totally Gretchen" goes way to far. In this particular case that woman had zero creativity. She stole the tune and put a cliche to it "work hard, play harder". If you're impressed then listen to her. She'll lose the case or likely they reach a settlement. But really who cares. Its obvious to any body with a slight taste in music who is an artist and who's not.
Who wrote the song...Wilson? Whoever did, there is no doubt that there is no difference in 90% of the song.
Yes....This is pretty obvious that the tune is a huge rip off of the Black Crowes. Did you hear the new Kid Rock song? That is a TRUE ripoff not only of Sweet Home Alabama, but also of Warren Zevon's Warewolves of London.
The Crowes are the biggest Stones rip-off ever !!! Get over yourselves and get a bath Chris.......
This song sounds like it was ripped off from the black crows. It sounds like a studio band playing a bad version of jealous. One person commented that the way she sings the chorus sounds like cocaine by clapton. She probably didn't know anything, someone wrote and gave her the song and she did what the record company said to do. Get a bad karaoke singer to sing both versions after a few pints and then this can be proved.
Serves them right, The Robinson Brothers ripped me off in Austin in '96 when they played three songs then walked off stage because someone shined a light in their eyes. Keep on Crying.
Any Country fan who is familiar with The Black Crowes work would be hard pressed to not see that her song is a direct copy of "Jealous again". I'd be so embarrassed if I were Gretchen Wilson who must not have a shred of musical integrity to have disrespected the Robinson Bros. well known work. How lame.
It could have been unintentional. Happened to Keith Richards. His daughter pointed out how a new Stones song sounded an awful lot like a k.d. lang song she'd been listen to around the house. While not a conscious rip-off, Jagger and Richards conceded the influence and gave lang writing credit.
And I'm sorry, I just don't get Amy Winehouse. I mean, other than the train wreck appeal . . .
These 'new country' kids don't know who their daddies are. Send 'em to school.
And just one more reminder the Black Crowes have ALWAYS done things with integrity and without apathy i will ask anyone if you can say that about your PHONEY country artist!!!!!!!
so many country haters out there. The Crowes are just ticked that they have not had the level of success as the Redneck Woman
The Black Crowes guitar riff is rip from Stevie Wonder's – I Wish
Oh yeah, the verse is totally ripped off, but the chorus and everything else isn't. I'm very familiar with the Black Crowes tune (one of my favorites) and as soon as I heard it I recognized the blatant similarities. But to say this is copyright infringement is a shaky call. Popular music, by its very essence, is mostly simple and formulaic so that it appeals to the broadest audience possible, and this leaves very little wiggle room for creative exploration. And just because a certain vocal styling or rhythm has already been used doesn't mean that others can't adapt it in a different genre. Very little of what is considered popular music is truly original – it always borrows from earlier and more obscure material. Recall that The Beatles ripped off Elvis, who ripped off black rhythm and blues artists like Chuck Berry, and so on and so on. And what about that first verse in the Gretchen Wilson tune, the one that goes "Monday, I blah blah blah. Tuesday, I etc..." That lyric arrangement has been used hundreds of times, yet I don't hear the producers of Happy Days filing a lawsuit!
So to summarize: blatant rip-off = absolutely. copyright infringement = not exactly.
A blatant and outrageous rip-off of the Crowes song. Hopefully they sue Gretchen Wilson's talentless bland style of country right out of existence.
It's standard rock 4/4, you can't copyright that! It's taught in guitar 101. If anything, Jealous Again is a rip-off of Tumblin' Dice! The Stones might have a case. Let's sic Bill Wyman and Charlie Watts on them.
Besides who in the BLUE FLOCK thought that rock was so needing sorry unoriginal country music to GLOM ONTO GOOD ROCK AND ROLL to make money its clear country is pathetically reaching into places it should never go
Who cares? Well, obviously the Crows care.
The Black Crowes have been ripping off Humble Pie from the get go! Stop money-grubbing and get back to work, you fools. You haven't written anything really tasty since '92. Hooo, was that nice though!
It's funny because it's also in the same key...
I think a royalty is due!
Now in refrence to Rock artist stealing from each other yes it has happened but i think you have to make the distinction between rock artist actually STEALING music or simply having the same style, now in POP CRAP COUNTRY they have nothing original and CLEARLY jealous again was written years ago it sounds only in style like the groups so Matthew there IS a difference in similar style and blatant RIPOFF such as Chumpkin Wilsod has obviously done!!!! Yes country music has to be accountable if it considers itself a viable artform
WOW ! this is obvious she didnt even try to hide it as a random song on the CD! To make it a single and put it in a commercial on TNT for everyone to hear is clearly a cry for help!
Well I heard both and I all can is that the "Redneck Woman" is a "Redneck Ripoff". Maybe she should go back to high school(She never finished) and learn about things like copyright infringement and common sense.
There is a difference in ripping off, covering, and being influenced by another artist song. There will always be similarities withn in music, that is just how music works, especially within a genre, but to crossover into a totally different genre and not even try to make a song your own says a lot about that artist or so called artist. These days it seems there are fewer and fewer real "artist" out there especially mainstream. People in that business rip each other off everyday, no one has an original thought anymore that is mainstream. It seems the people that are being original, are the ones that always have been and got into the music because they had something to say not because they wanted a big check, the Dylans, Neil Young, Springsteen, the "pre-MTV" artist. The art comes first and then a pay check.
the black crowes and gretchen wilson are dead to me....who cares...God bless amy winehouse!
True, the Black Crowes have borrowed from the past, just like everyone else, but the melody/arrangement is not exactly the same when they borrow. They can borrow a melody, do their own take, and have a different arrangement etc behind it and vice versa.
The issue with this is the fact that the melody, word phrasing, and arrangement behind it is almost like the song just with different lyrics. They definately have a case. It almost sounds like its even in the same key.
An obvious rip-off.
She should have KNOWN it was stolen intellectual property.
Someone should go to jail... maybe then they'll learn.
JMHO
Musical robbery is common in the industry. Brian Wilson borrowed a Chuck Berry tune for "Surfin USA". Ultimately the Beach Boys credited Berry, and that will probably happen here. In essence Wilson simply took a rather mundane tune and made it quite boring.
Yes, and rock musicians have been borrowing from classical tracks form the start. Every musician has influences and listens to lots of music every day. The question always comes down to "If they are not exact matches, when is close enough, enough." Who makes that decision? Both are great songs. There's room for both. The BC's should be glad their old material is getting press again and will probably sell a few more CDS as a result. As a producer, I am certain I could go through the BC's catalog and find a few rip-off's. GW should acknowledge the similarities and give credit where its due. Life is short. Move on.
yeah they sound similar and yeah it does sound like copyright infringement but i gotta ask 'who cares?' the music industry has, for generations, not merely decades, lived off of that principle ie take what works for someone else make it your own and sell it for much more than its really worth. now however the music-cops are there with powerful new tools and as we watch they begin feeding on each other
at least the carnage should be fun to watch
If I was the judge I would rule the case on one simple request.
If the Black Crowes can name me 1 really completely original song recorded in rock music in the last 20 years, they win.
Matthew,
Would you please cite some examples of this alleged theft of the Allman Brothers, et al? Preferably in the link to one song and a link the Crowes song like CNN did above. I'd love to hear it.
And it would be awfully hard to rip of the kings of the ripoffs Led Zeppelin.
Oh come on Crows. I don't like new Country worth s snot but that isn't any closer to your song than it is to other tunes. Sure they ripped off some cliche turn around but that isn't nothing I haven't seen from other rockers either.
Hey, the Black Crowes have been ripping off the Rolling Stones for decades.
Blatant ripoff of the Crowes. Shameful.
I wouldn't take much research to find a similar tune that pre-dates the Crowes song in question. All it takes to make a hit record or write a song is to find a familiar melody and put different words to it. Chuck Berry made a career of rearranging his own songs with similar meter and rhythms and they are still great songs that are on the radio. Neil Young was sued by his own record company for making a record that didn't sound like "Neil Young". John Fogerty was sued by his own lable for plagarizing himself. Does it really matter who sounds like who? It will still sell and garner attention. Anyone remember Huey Lewis suing Ray Parker, Jr. over the Ghostbusters theme song?
Yes, the melody hits the same notes, but does not continue with the same rhythm for 8 bars. Case dismissed.
It was once said, "Immature artists borrow, mature artists steel". Not that I care for Gretchen Wilson, but who cares?
What a joke. I guess the black crows are a little low in cash. haha.... If they think they own that type of standard blues melody they are crazy. Black Crows, you were a good band, but what you did was all based on standard' country blues rock riffs. There are plenty of people who could sure you, Rod stewart being one of them..
It's obvious. However, what in music is "original" these days? Music Artists, especially those in a corporate environment like MOST country artists these days, should have tipped of the Crowes camp to seek permission. Say what you will about the Robinson's, but they've always been very liberal and generous to the music public when it comes to sharing their music. It's sad to see parties take advantage of those freedoms.
Whether intentional or not, Wilson's song sounds like it is cut from the same mold as the Crowes'.
At least if you're going to rip someone off, don't rip it note-for-note. I checked the writers for this song – Gretchen Wilson and John Rich. That figures – I don't think John Rich has ever had an original thought in his head.
People will hear it as two different songs. Of course, those are the same people that think "SuperFreak" and "Can't Touch This" are two different songs! Or "Ice Ice Baby" and "Under Pressure"...
The Black Crowes and Gretchen Wilson songs are as different as night and ... 5 minutes later.
The melody of the vocal is nearly identical. So what.
I guess they're slightly similar, but they're both blues songs and that happens a lot in the blues. I think the Crowes are just jealous... again.
Sounds just like it for 15 seconds, but the farther it goes the less, and the chorus isn't at all like it. Is that enough for infringement? I wouldn't think so.
Yeah, no doubt about it – the Robinsons have every right to be upset. The melody line in the verse of WHPH is almost identical to the verse of JA. Not only that, but the end of the chorus sounds like a rip off of "Cocaine". Somebody get J.J. Cale on the phone.
Who cares? The Black Crowes have been ripping other musicians off for years. The Allman Brothers, Led Zeppelin, Otis Redding, and I'm sure some not so obvious ones.
To the Black Crowes......GET OVER YOURSELVES.........Gretchen Wilson's song is not stealing or infringing on your song. It is totally Gretchen.
Wow! While the lyrics and probably most of the music is different the tune and melody sound identical (didn't even need to listen to the Crowes). Maybe she'll come up with a poor explanation like Vanilla Ice's explanation of how his beat for "Ice Ice Baby" has an extra note when compared with the identical beat from Queen/Bowie's "Under Pressure". I used to respect Gretchen Wilson for being a true country singer, but this is bad.
The melody of the verse for both songs is nearly identical when you consider the notes, rhythem and cadence of the lyrics. The rest of if is completely different. On the other hand, who cares. Rock and roll has always stolen from the past - it's tradition. Though, if you look back at the George Harrison copyright infringment case the Crowes have a good shot of getting some money.
Wow. This is such an obvious rip-off. The music and the harmony is EXACTLY the same. Country music is terrible, now we learn they can't even come up with their own stuff. For shame....
Yep, they are similar. But I'll bet that if you search hard enough, you'll find a song that pre-dates the Crowes song that sound's alot their song. It's only rock and roll, we all borrow from each other. Consider it a compliant.
The first time I heard it I knew it was a lift of Jealous Again. It's obvious.
This is just another grand example of so called "country artist" not only robbing other artist particularly ROCK artist of their work to try to lamely infuse something interetesting into otherwise transparent country garbage they call music but they are systematically ruining already suspect carrers of these sorry country singers,groups etc. I may add as well RASCAL FLATTS does this very same thing. I hope the CROWES put it to her!!!!